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Old 06-24-2013, 11:51 PM   #9676
EJ_92606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
It'll be interesting to see whether this actually happens.
haha, from BMW, no.
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:05 AM   #9677
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Originally Posted by cug View Post
Hey all,
[*]Brakes still feel awesome. Want brakes like that on my Tiger. Now! The rear brake is in a much more natural feeling place than on the Tiger.
Remarkable how you 'feel' the LC.

I test rode a stock Tiger last year, the bike felt sluggish, wasn't all that impressed by the 800cc triple engine, and the brakes are indeed the worst one can buy

OTOH, I find the LC brakes not that great on mine. Rode the test-bike LC from the dealer, and rode a friend his LC as well, and all 3 of them lack the 'throw-an-anchor-out' brakes

Luckily we all have (slightly) different opinions on things. The world would be a boring place without them
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:16 AM   #9678
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Originally Posted by antwerp View Post
Remarkable how you 'feel' the LC.

I test rode a stock Tiger last year, the bike felt sluggish, wasn't all that impressed by the 800cc triple engine, and the brakes are indeed the worst one can buy

OTOH, I find the LC brakes not that great on mine. Rode the test-bike LC from the dealer, and rode a friend his LC as well, and all 3 of them lack the 'throw-an-anchor-out' brakes

Luckily we all have (slightly) different opinions on things. The world would be a boring place without them
A couple possible reasons why: Brakes take time to bed in and reach their maximum stopping power. The setting might also take offroad use into account, where "brick wall" stopping power would be very unwelcome.
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Old 06-25-2013, 02:50 AM   #9679
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I think I have read a test that new LC breaks are very good yes, but take just a tiny bit more road to stop in some conditions.

(not in a dangerous way, possibly where the old would just stop, the new would make a tiny bump, that kind of difference)

Anyway cug's (updated) comments are very interesting. Possibly all these have to do with the very different geometry and technology of the two suspensions.
Also we need to take not of the range of usability of the two systems.

Tiger 800 (road version) doesn't have to fight off road.
Not sure how it would handle this:


Is it something most won't try? Yes.
Still, if someone gets a GS to use it as an RT, it's his problem.
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Old 06-25-2013, 04:58 AM   #9680
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Wow, what a difference in perspective. I too had a 2010 GS, sold it for a '13 Triumph Explorer last August. While I loved the triple motor I thought the oem suspension was the worst I'd ever ridden in a modern bike. On its softest settings I thought the ride was harsh. Especially on sharp bumps in the road.

That's a big reason I sold the Explorer earlier this spring after having ridden the new GS LC and bought one. I test rode the non-ESA version and liked the suspension. Bought an ESA version. I was truly surprised to feel the difference in the semi-active ESA suspension. For me it's the most supple I've ever ridden in my 10 years of having taken up riding again. And I've owned a lot of bikes in these last 10 years and 75k+ mi. of riding. I couldn't be happier with the bike, especially after putting my Fastway pegs on it, Rox risers, a CalSci screen and SW-Motech crash guards on. (I'm 6'4" & 200#).

I realize that my comparison between is between the TEX and the ESA GS LC while yours is between your 800 Tiger w/upgraded suspension. So in some ways our comparisons are apples to oranges. I'm just surprised that there would be that much difference between an 800 like yours and the stock TEX.

To each his own as my grandmother used to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
Hey all,

I know you really can't be bothered by the impressions of a non-owner, but I give them anyways ...


Last time I rode the LC-GS it was a plain vanilla model without the D-ESA suspension and without cruise control. It also was the baby blue color which I thoroughly disliked. Looks awful - but that's just my taste, so don't jump on that one, please, and don't feel offended.

The main issues I had last time were:
  1. Biggest dislike: Slow turn in compared to my tiger
  2. Harsh suspension, not very comfortable, bad high speed compression damping
  3. Clunky gear box, drive train lash
  4. Heat on the leg around the left knee.........
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Old 06-25-2013, 05:02 AM   #9681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ_92606 View Post
My friend's bike the headlight is on all the time and he says it can't be shut off...so how do you shut it off?

edit: per page 51 of the U.S. manual....The lowbeam headlamp switches on automatically when the engine is switched on.
With the LED Headlamps in the USA the DRLs stay on and the low beam is automatically activated when necessary.
In other areas of the world the DRL and the low beam can be activated manually.
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Old 06-25-2013, 05:12 AM   #9682
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I am finding out that the more you the GS LC the better it responds.
The transmission is smoothing out, the suspension is getting better with time, the throttle is getting more responsive. All of this is taking a little time and miles as this bike comes into its own.
Coming from a KLR first and then a Tiger this is head and shoulders above both in all aspects.
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:21 AM   #9683
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Originally Posted by twinrider View Post
A couple possible reasons why: Brakes take time to bed in and reach their maximum stopping power. The setting might also take offroad use into account, where "brick wall" stopping power would be very unwelcome.
This might be a reason. The Tiger 800 and the Tiger 800XC have the same brakes. The XC is targeted at the same customer group as the F800GS, which is much more off-road oriented than the R1200GS.

Also, the brakes on the Tiger aren't super bad, but they require a very high amount of pressure applied to get decent stopping power. I don't recall having read about stopping distance, but as I can pull them enough to have the ABS kick in, I doubt it'll be that much different than most other bikes on the market. It's just how they feel. They are easy to apply even for newer riders as they don't require a very light touch.

I just prefer brakes where I can do everything I need, even emergency stopping, with a maximum of two fingers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NLS View Post
Tiger 800 (road version) doesn't have to fight off road.
Not sure how it would handle this:
I don't think my (!!) Roadie would handle this any worse than a GS from the suspension point of view. Very likely it would actually be better as I find the suspension to be quite a bit better than the OEM suspension on the GS.

I wouldn't want to try that with a stock Tiger 800 suspension though. That one was so bad that for the first time in owning motorcycles I have spent a lot of money for aftermarket suspension.

Note that I only said "from the suspension point of view". The Tiger is less rugged and not as well balanced as the GS. So there might be other difficulties.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kindofblue View Post
I realize that my comparison between is between the TEX and the ESA GS LC while yours is between your 800 Tiger w/upgraded suspension. So in some ways our comparisons are apples to oranges. I'm just surprised that there would be that much difference between an 800 like yours and the stock TEX.
The stock GS suspension is way ahead of the stock Tiger 800 suspension. But it is way behind the upgraded suspension you can add to a Tiger (and possibly to the GS). But you also have to see that these custom aftermarket suspension components are nearly 25% of the Tiger 800's MSRP. Whether that's worth it depends on how much you like the rest of the bike.

If you have chosen to sell an expensive bike and buy another even more expensive bike mainly because you didn't like the OEM suspension on the first while you still liked the rest of the bike - you should have looked into aftermarket suspension. Sure, if you like the rest of the GS also better you have what you wanted.

But if you ever have a chance to ride an Öhlins or Wilbers equipped bike or something with similar high quality suspension where the setup is an okay match for your weight - you should try it. It's an incredible difference to normal OEM suspension setups. The Tiger OEM suspension is super harsh, really bad high speed damping, the springs are way too soft, pre-compressed to get halfway correct sag, but the spring rate is completely off as soon as a rider is on the bike and I believe it's even off for just the bike itself. I have no idea what Triumph / Showa were thinking when they added that piece of crap to an otherwise pretty damn good bike.
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:32 AM   #9684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
This might be a reason. The Tiger 800 and the Tiger 800XC have the same brakes. The XC is targeted at the same customer group as the F800GS, which is much more off-road oriented than the R1200GS.

Also, the brakes on the Tiger aren't super bad, but they require a very high amount of pressure applied to get decent stopping power. I don't recall having read about stopping distance, but as I can pull them enough to have the ABS kick in, I doubt it'll be that much different than most other bikes on the market. It's just how they feel. They are easy to apply even for newer riders as they don't require a very light touch.

I just prefer brakes where I can do everything I need, even emergency stopping, with a maximum of two fingers.




I don't think my (!!) Roadie would handle this any worse than a GS from the suspension point of view. Very likely it would actually be better as I find the suspension to be quite a bit better than the OEM suspension on the GS.

I wouldn't want to try that with a stock Tiger 800 suspension though. That one was so bad that for the first time in owning motorcycles I have spent a lot of money for aftermarket suspension.

Note that I only said "from the suspension point of view". The Tiger is less rugged and not as well balanced as the GS. So there might be other difficulties.



The stock GS suspension is way ahead of the stock Tiger 800 suspension. But it is way behind the upgraded suspension you can add to a Tiger (and possibly to the GS). But you also have to see that these custom aftermarket suspension components are nearly 25% of the Tiger 800's MSRP. Whether that's worth it depends on how much you like the rest of the bike.

If you have chosen to sell an expensive bike and buy another even more expensive bike mainly because you didn't like the OEM suspension on the first while you still liked the rest of the bike - you should have looked into aftermarket suspension. Sure, if you like the rest of the GS also better you have what you wanted.

But if you ever have a chance to ride an Öhlins or Wilbers equipped bike or something with similar high quality suspension where the setup is an okay match for your weight - you should try it. It's an incredible difference to normal OEM suspension setups. The Tiger OEM suspension is super harsh, really bad high speed damping, the springs are way too soft, pre-compressed to get halfway correct sag, but the spring rate is completely off as soon as a rider is on the bike and I believe it's even off for just the bike itself. I have no idea what Triumph / Showa were thinking when they added that piece of crap to an otherwise pretty damn good bike.
Very well said.
My reasons for getting rid of my Tiger were.
1. The suspension, much better then the KLR but not as good as the GS LC
2. The heat coming off the radiator and the Catalytic Converter, made summer riding very unpleasant unless you had full lower armor.
3. The frame was too hot to touch on the right side in the summer.
4. chain drive
5. the GS LC solved all of these problems and has better power.
I am riding off road on the GS LC faster then when I dropped the tp to 25lbs on the Tiger
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:40 AM   #9685
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2. The heat coming off the radiator and the Catalytic Converter, made summer riding very unpleasant unless you had full lower armor.
3. The frame was too hot to touch on the right side in the summer.
4. chain drive
Interesting. I felt about the same or more heat coming from the GS radiator on my test ride than I feel on my Tiger. On 99% of my rides I wear full riding pants, so that's not an issue.

Touching the frame on the Tiger wasn't an issue even when crossing Death Valley at 120F two weeks ago.

I can understand the hate for chains. After fixing the suspension and after getting used to the way the brakes work, that's my #1 complaint and one that I can't do anything about. Overall it hasn't been a big deal using non-stick Teflon dry lube, the wheel and the bike stay clean with that, but I just hate even the few minutes or two thoughts spent on taking care of that. Deep in my heart I'm probably still a Honda ST1100 rider - fill it up, ride, change tires, change oil, rinse and repeat (for me it was 150k km like this - not a single issue).
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Old 06-25-2013, 05:36 PM   #9686
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Originally Posted by cug View Post
I can understand the hate for chains. After fixing the suspension and after getting used to the way the brakes work, that's my #1 complaint and one that I can't do anything about. Overall it hasn't been a big deal using non-stick Teflon dry lube, the wheel and the bike stay clean with that, but I just hate even the few minutes or two thoughts spent on taking care of that. Deep in my heart I'm probably still a Honda ST1100 rider - fill it up, ride, change tires, change oil, rinse and repeat (for me it was 150k km like this - not a single issue).
You might want to look into a Scottoiler or something similar. Makes it about as pain free as possible and the chain does last a lot longer. Sure the wheel gets dirty but it is an adv bike after all...
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Old 06-25-2013, 05:38 PM   #9687
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Originally Posted by twinrider View Post
You might want to look into a Scottoiler or something similar. Makes it about as pain free as possible and the chain does last a lot longer. Sure the wheel gets dirty but it is an adv bike after all...
While I've heard good things about the Scottoiler, I've mainly heard those things from street bikes. I'd be afraid the oil on the chain would attract a lot of dirt and dust with any off-road riding. Do they recommend a Scottoiler for off-road riding?
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Old 06-25-2013, 05:39 PM   #9688
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I hate oil over the rear of my bike way more than I hate spraying some Teflon lube on every now and then. And if I have to replace the chain after 18k miles or 30k miles doesn't really make a difference for me.
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Old 06-25-2013, 05:45 PM   #9689
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Originally Posted by cug View Post
I hate oil over the rear of my bike way more than I hate spraying some Teflon lube on every now and then. And if I have to replace the chain after 18k miles or 30k miles doesn't really make a difference for me.
If it's all over the rear of your bike it's not adjusted right... But hey I get where you're coming from. Love the S10's big black shaft...
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Old 06-25-2013, 06:24 PM   #9690
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Originally Posted by iride4u View Post
With the LED Headlamps in the USA the DRLs stay on and the low beam is automatically activated when necessary.
In other areas of the world the DRL and the low beam can be activated manually.
The manual says the low beam is switched on when the engine is started....are you saying that is not the case on your U.S. bike?
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