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Old 12-28-2011, 05:58 PM   #1066
erkmania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tagesk View Post
Someone care to teach us about the thermical properties of oil vs water?[TaSK]
"Thermical"? Now that's comical.
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Old 12-28-2011, 06:27 PM   #1067
hillbillypolack
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Can someone tell me where the radiators are on this 'waterhead'?? I'm kind of interested in Tagesk's hypothesis.

Also, here's a good comparison for how far upward the cylinders have been relocated-at least on the test mules.

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Old 12-28-2011, 06:31 PM   #1068
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tagesk View Post
Someone care to teach us about the thermical properties of oil vs water?

[TaSK]
FWIW it was easy to find. Water transfer heat much better than oil.

The official definition of Thermal Conductivity is Watts/ meter- Kelvin

Air is .025 very poor...house insulation

Mineral oil .138 5 times better but still poor....not sure how motor oil relates to this type of oil

Water .6 again 4+ time better

Aluminum 120 to 180 depending on what alloy a whole lot better
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:02 PM   #1069
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Photochop or real?

Rumored ride by wire throttle, new generation of adjustable suspension, more advanced than ESA... Liquid cooling with full water jackets... definitely not oil only cooling.
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:09 PM   #1070
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GB View Post
Photochop or real?

Rumored ride by wire throttle, new generation of adjustable suspension, more advanced than ESA... Liquid cooling with full water jackets... definitely not oil only cooling.
I like it, looks good.
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:21 PM   #1071
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GB View Post
Photochop or real?

Rumored ride by wire throttle, new generation of adjustable suspension, more advanced than ESA... Liquid cooling with full water jackets... definitely not oil only cooling.
It is very obviously a photoshop. Question is, how close to real is it? I'm not convinced that it is all that close.

Jim
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:28 PM   #1072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillypolack View Post
Can someone tell me where the radiators are on this 'waterhead'?? I'm kind of interested in Tagesk's hypothesis.
Looks like twin radiators similar to the K1200RS. Still an oil cooler under the headlight, maybe smaller than the hexhead/camhead?
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:52 PM   #1073
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Timing is everything!

I currently ride a Tiger 1050 and have an itch to change. In all honesty the Tiger is a great bike but the new 1200 Explorer Tiger won't be out till summer. There will be little to no aftermarket farkles for some time. There are no reviews or pricing to date. I looked at theTenere and it seems heavy. I suspect both the Tiger and Tenere will lose value quickly. So I started looking at a new 1200GS. Got past the final drive issues mentally. Then I hear about a new liquid cooled GS. Damn. To top that off I am taking a long trip in June. I am in my mid 60s and most likely this will be my last bike due to progressive neuropathy in my legs. I guess I will spring for the GS in a couple of months unless the liquid cooled model will be available this summer some time. When does BMW usually bring out their new models just in case?
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:17 PM   #1074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YetiGS View Post
Just like the vast majority of Land/Range Rovers and other SUV's clogging the freeway.
Yep, as hillbillypolack (now that doesn't sound PC to say...) already mused, our bike might very well be the SUV of motorbikes. Same seat height, anyways.

I assume they dumped the oil cooling circuit completely; the radiator might just be in place of the old oil cooler.

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Old 12-28-2011, 09:46 PM   #1075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchorbend View Post
When does BMW usually bring out their new models just in case?
Depends on how bad they want to screw their dealers on existing stock...




BTW, agreed on your conclusions regarding the new big Triumph and the S10.
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Old 12-29-2011, 02:42 AM   #1076
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillypolack View Post
Can someone tell me where the radiators are on this 'waterhead'?? I'm kind of interested in Tagesk's hypothesis.

Also, here's a good comparison for how far upward the cylinders have been relocated-at least on the test mules.

My guess is that those triangular frames above the cylinder heads are supports or guards for the radiatiors, one each side of the telelever shock or even behind the shock. I reckon the tank is wider, like the 1200GSA to fit the fuel in. This add point for styling as bringing the standard GS and GSA closer together styling wise.

The engine finning may still provide some cooling to the engine. Water is an excellent conductor of heat, much better than oil. I always understood that oil coolers primarily served to protect the oil itself (keeping it within its optimum operating range and preventing it from deteriorating due to excessive heat).
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Old 12-29-2011, 02:45 AM   #1077
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtbob View Post
In looking at these pictures I do not understand why the exhaust pipe needs to be bent forward and then loop around back again. Seems needless bends, length weight. The place meant of the foot peg, brake or shifter seem far enough back so there would be not interference. Might it be a heat thing?

My guess, vote also be for the large wide tank thing is a combo radiator ducting, air box, with the fuel tank and battery under the seat and maybe further back like the F800s. The picture sure do make that tank/radiator thing wide...nearly as wide as the cylinders.

PS in the previous post I was not taking a shot at the GSA...just some fun at the parking lot ballerinas tip toeing around.
Exhausts usually have to be a certain length for tuning purposes, most radically noticable in two strokes.
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:01 AM   #1078
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
It is very obviously a photoshop. Question is, how close to real is it? I'm not convinced that it is all that close.

Jim
no labeling on the brake calipers is one give away, plus the exhaust header's bend does not match the ones on the test mules. That's not likely to change.
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:10 AM   #1079
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchorbend View Post
I currently ride a Tiger 1050 and have an itch to change. In all honesty the Tiger is a great bike but the new 1200 Explorer Tiger won't be out till summer. There will be little to no aftermarket farkles for some time. There are no reviews or pricing to date. I looked at theTenere and it seems heavy. I suspect both the Tiger and Tenere will lose value quickly. So I started looking at a new 1200GS. Got past the final drive issues mentally. Then I hear about a new liquid cooled GS. Damn. To top that off I am taking a long trip in June. I am in my mid 60s and most likely this will be my last bike due to progressive neuropathy in my legs. I guess I will spring for the GS in a couple of months unless the liquid cooled model will be available this summer some time. When does BMW usually bring out their new models just in case?
I spent a bit of time with my dealer on when the new water head will be out. He does not know. duh He's trying very hard to get me to buy the current GS..."final design...all the bugs are out, etc etc.
He did say something that makes sense. BMW usually shows it new model at Intermot held in August I think. They did not do that last august so if the water head is to be a 2013 model we will have to wait till august to know. Note BMW sells more GSs in Italy than any other nation.

The other option is to watch what is happening at the Spandau factory. When it shuts old GS production down...no more special orders taken.

It seems likely that the GS will be the only water head model....with the R-RT and standard R continuing with the old engine....it would just be too much work to release all new water head models at the same time. This would imply to me that BMW would take the opportunity to take advantage of water head demand and charge a noticeable premium for it over the current engine model.
We have seen this type of change in the past.

just my 2 cents FWIW

On my F800 BMW uses a heat exchanger to cool the oil with water so it does away with the seperate oil radiator...likely the water head will do the same thing.
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Old 12-29-2011, 06:54 AM   #1080
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillypolack View Post
Can someone tell me where the radiators are on this 'waterhead'?? I'm kind of interested in Tagesk's hypothesis.

Also, here's a good comparison for how far upward the cylinders have been relocated-at least on the test mules.

Appreciate you attempting the comparative view...we need more like it for better assessment...in kind, several things that are now more readily viewable that have caught my attention for good or not:

1.) the cylinders for whatever reason appear to be higher on the block....higher means better clearing in the low brush, but also means higher center of gravity...since I enjoy this bike offroad a good bit, my vote is for lower center of gravity to give the heavier GSadv an amazingly lighter feel given its weight.
http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....postcount=1054

2.) can't tell if that black bit over the tank which appears to be a shroud to induct aire in and out, is for real...if its real, its a big piece that is going to need protection whether it is the GS or the GSadv as it extends down towards the forks, and if you auger it in, all kinds of stuff is going to come flying off...

3.) The light bucket is very F800GS looking...they also appear to be HIDs in that running light which would be a shame to not just go straight LED...in tangent, I have read in numerous tech reports about the biggest of big illumination companies gearing up to replace all light bulbs with LEDs in the coming 6-8 Qs...i expect that to be the norm, and thus expect it with bikes and cars too.

4.) Though I like the looks of the new mirrors, I want maximum rear and side viewage...those look significantly smaller than the ones that are on the current GS/GSadv...

5.) Like the grab handles for the pillion seat...that said, with the custom Russell I got my bride, those would get in the way as the seat has the rounded back area that make them so superb...further, if one takes off the rear seat and wants a flat deck for which to pile gear galore on a solo ride far and wide, those are going to be one sizable pain in the arse.

6.) it may just be the angle of the picture, but in the following links first pic, it looks like the leg has less room between it and the cylinder, and the cylinder is up higher...given that the cylinders radiate heat even if they are water cooled, seems a bit precarious in compare to existing
http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....postcount=1047

7.) In the following linked image, it appears that the oil filter is under the left cylinder head...that would be loverly for access, but less so for spillage when taking the old off.
http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....postcount=1052

8.) Though the windscreen looks loverly and is adjustable like a more road fairing bike, my preference is for a wind blockage one like the Cee Bailey I am currently running...nothing like smoking down a dirt or paved road, having your head bob around like the current stock GS or GSadv screens have you do, which plain ole sucks for anyone who has graduated to a Cee Bailey styled screen...no doubt the aftermarket guys will build ones to fit, but after seeing a few of the GT and RT lads drop a bike, those adjustment screen mounts always seem to break.
http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....postcount=1047

9.) I will be amazed if this bike weighs significantly less than the current models...though reportedly added 10-15hp increase will be nice for the road, offroad, it will be nary a difference...offroad, cut out 50lbs like they did from the 1150 to the 1200, and you have a winner...cut out no weight, and you have a solution looking for a question.

10.) Have to say, expected significantly greater design evolution...this appears to be a mild step up...given all the other bits discussed, my question would be why change unless (a) motor is something as amazing as that of the GTL over the former LT, (b) weight dif is significant, and (c) the price is right?
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