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Old 01-14-2012, 08:36 PM   #1366
hillbillypolack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longslowdistance View Post
I'd pay more for 30kg less weight, but not 30 more hp.

This.

And less complexity.
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Old 01-14-2012, 09:41 PM   #1367
peter-k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longslowdistance View Post
I'd pay more for 30kg less weight, but not 30 more hp.
+1



BTW., the new w/c boxer costs less to produce. Everything is in one casing, cheaper clutch. The relatively small water collars and the few extra parts are cheap.
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Old 01-14-2012, 10:06 PM   #1368
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The biggest doubters, are usually those most impressed, come demo time.

My crystal ball, shows a home run so far out of the ball park, that lamenting speculations will die a quick death, but until then...

996DL
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Old 01-15-2012, 08:04 AM   #1369
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Originally Posted by 996DL View Post
The biggest doubters, are usually those most impressed, come demo time.

My crystal ball, shows a home run so far out of the ball park, that lamenting speculations will die a quick death, but until then...

996DL
You are right on the money.
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Old 01-15-2012, 08:38 AM   #1370
hillbillypolack
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Perhaps an RT is more in tune with the target market then.
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Old 01-15-2012, 11:55 AM   #1371
tallguy-09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter-k View Post
+1



BTW., the new w/c boxer costs less to produce. Everything is in one casing, cheaper clutch. The relatively small water collars and the few extra parts are cheap.
Less money (if so) to produce is good for BMW, water cooling is good for the planet, wet clutch and more power is good for me, more money, well, that happens...
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Old 01-15-2012, 06:17 PM   #1372
BCC
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Originally Posted by hillbillypolack View Post
Perhaps an RT is more in tune with the target market then.
Dunno.

I have lighter street bikes and much lighter dirt bikes. My gsa is a comfy tool that can blast down a dirt road, do a trail in a pinch, munch tarmac miles and handle the twisties.

Same weight and 30 more horses would suit me fine. As long as the low rpm torque stayed the same.

And please, no cruise.
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Old 01-15-2012, 07:30 PM   #1373
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By all that's Holy , let cruise control not be foisted upon the unwilling,
nor cruelly inserted into "must have" option packages.

Pray, let it be only a stand alone option, so as not to offend even one stalwart defender,
of all that is righteous and manly in "True Adventure Riding."


But it will be heavier, so deal with it...

996DL
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Old 01-15-2012, 08:37 PM   #1374
flightestman
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I'm sure the bike will be great

the only thing i can see different is the slipper clutch the fake fins bother me it shows they really did love that design look. I would want a boxer liquid cooled unless it comes in RT or a Goldwing. i fell in love with the R1200GS, if your not happy with the one you got already then maybe you will never happy, If you love something some how no matte what comes out you always happy with what you got. I rather have the last of the 90 year old air cooled boxer engine. I'm sure the the liquid cooled will sell very del,l i would be wiling bet that it sells less the R1200GS though. didn't like what i saw of the liquid cooled intakes and header but the RT cowling will hide the rotation of the piston. i have to ride the GT1600 and see how they each ride I have a boxer now so i rather have the smoothness and power GT or RT (if it smooth i don't know if it will still be jumpy because I'm not sure where that comes from the tolerances or the 2 cylinders). I'm not in market for RT till 5 years i just bought my 2012 R1200GS i would be looking till i pay this off. i even liked the 1150cc that the one I fell in love with as BMW I think i fell in love with the GS when i walked into the show room years later. but i always loved the boxer the old and the new thats what really got me looking that boxer engine.

flightestman screwed with this post 01-30-2012 at 09:22 AM
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:00 PM   #1375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillypolack View Post

3) if BMW wants to differentiate themselves at all, why play the same water-cooled game as their competitors? Any entrepreneur will tell you that if you want to win any segment, don't play the same game as your competition.
Um...how'd they do on the S1000RR?
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:24 PM   #1376
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[QUOTE=hillbillypolack;17752811]This makes far far more sense to me in light of BMW's engineering prowess.

1) if the HP2 Sport generated 133hp from a camhead engine and still wasn't near it's power potential, that tells me the overall engine 'architecture' is under-stressed. Not only the HP2 Sport, but what about the R1200S based on the hexhead? These two bikes illustrate to me the flexibility of power delivery that still has not been tapped in the GS model lineup. I.E., even with incremental changes, there is more to be had from that engine architecture (see also the 1270cc thread)

To me the better choice would have been making the changes more in line with the HP2. I can already hear water pump failures and coolant leaks....All these "improvements" only make the bike for susceptable to catastrophic failures.The water cooled engine to me shows no gain over what has been proven with the HP2Sport motor. I am always hearing on this forum that we don't need more HP but we need to shed weight. I have my bike fairly tweaked and peaked and have not seen that the new camheads have ANY advantage on me. In fact, from a maintenance standpoint, I can adjust my valves anywhere without having to worry about having a shim IF I buy one of these, it would be a second buy for street unless it just really comes across stronger in person. My 08 has taken a lickin' and keeps on tickin'!!!
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Old 01-15-2012, 10:36 PM   #1377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flightestman View Post
the fake fins bother me it shows they really did love that design look.


The cylinder supposedly doesn't have a water jacket. Note the pipe across the top of the cylinder to bring coolant to the head which is jacketed. Some of the fins may not be fake.
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Old 01-16-2012, 12:16 AM   #1378
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I was under the impression the HP2 cost mega bucks at the 30k service. Replacement of many exotic parts in the motor and all that. Given that the GS will get more use by it's user base, then cheaper running costs must be one of the reasons BMW have gone L/C.
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Old 01-16-2012, 04:54 AM   #1379
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You have to remember the Gs range is the biggest seller and it isn't to bmw fanatics either. Most of the owners are new to bmw and only bought in after the 1200 was released. More than likely because it was a modern bike. They aren't making these bikes for the fans of the 1100. They are for possibly a completely different group and 1200 owners.
Why would anybody think a water pump could be so unreliable you wouldn't buy a bike with one? Do you own a car, because that has one. You have far more to worry about an oil pump failing and the 1200 has 2 of them.
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Old 01-16-2012, 06:04 AM   #1380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marchyman View Post


The cylinder supposedly doesn't have a water jacket. Note the pipe across the top of the cylinder to bring coolant to the head which is jacketed. Some of the fins may not be fake.
Very interesting picture! If it is true that the cylinders do not have a water jacket, that would imply that oil cooling is still a major component in engine cooling...maybe evan more that the 1200??. It will be curious to see if they have separate oil and water radiators or do like the are on the F800 and have a oil/water heat exchanger to cool the oil and a single radiator.
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