The All New 2013 LIQUID COOLED R1200GS threadfest

[dmac57]

Originally Posted by Deans BMW

That is simply the silliest thing I have ever heard.

C'mon, I can out-silly that in my sleep!

[KSBEERHUNTER]

Originally Posted by Deans BMW

That is simply the silliest thing I have ever heard.

OK hot shot, explain to us all how a Nikasil lined cylinder that is cast into the block can be rebored/rebuilt? I had Yamaha enduros in the 70s. If you lunched a cylinder you had to replace it period! They can't be bored! Only savior to this new design is if it has a liner inside that can be replaced. This is the only thing that would allow you to rebuild without replacing the engine block. If you know of another way by all means share it with everyone. Future BMW owners may need to know! BMW doesn't want to sell the best bike built anymore they want to sell the most bikes and parts they can. They even tried to do away with the final drive vent and tell you it had life time fluid. Now that was the silliest thing I have ever heard. Almost as silly as when BMW dealers tell you the final drives don't fail!
Are you willing to trade off your slash 2 for one of the new water cooled boxers?

[KSBEERHUNTER]

Originally Posted by JimVonBaden

Many, if not most, MC engines are built like that these days.

Jim

Hey Jim, tell this to Jeff Dean if you can get him to stop laughing long enough to listen.
I had to replace many Nikasil lined cylinders in my much younger days as well as pistons and ring sets because at that time no over sized pistons were available and you couldn't bore it and remove the Nikasil lining. I thought that was crap then and still do! Lets hope that this new water cooled boxer has a replacable Nikasil liner inside those cast in cylinders or things are going to get really expensive. It would be a good trick to get you to trade more often or purchase one heck of an extended warranty, both of which benefits you know who!

[ragtoplvr]

anything built can be rebuilt. Nikasil is a plating process. It can be plated again. It can be sleeved. there will be ways. If you ever need to, that is. If after 200K miles, you need to rebuild, probably a light hone, high service limit pistons, rebuild heads, good for another 200K

and there will be so many low mileage blocks out there that it will be less expensive to buy a engine from a totaled bike, and use it.

Worry about something important.

[KSBEERHUNTER]

Originally Posted by ragtoplvr

anything built can be rebuilt. Nikasil is a plating process. It can be plated again. It can be sleeved. there will be ways. If you ever need to, that is. If after 200K miles, you need to rebuild, probably a light hone, high service limit pistons, rebuild heads, good for another 200K

and there will be so many low mileage blocks out there that it will be less expensive to buy a engine from a totaled bike, and use it.

Worry about something important.

Sounds like real progress to me. Buy a used engine. Interested where or who will "lightly" hone or replate a Nikasil cylinder. It goes on with a torch and is very very thin and can't be bored. Only hope is a replacable liner!

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by KSBEERHUNTER

Interested where or who will "lightly" hone or replate a Nikasil cylinder. It goes on with a torch and is very very thin and can't be bored. Only hope is a replacable liner!

May be of some interest : www.lasleeve.com , www.kustom-kraft.com , www.lukesracing.com or www.mt-llc.com
.

[KSBEERHUNTER]

I looked on the web sites and yes some are repairing cylinders now days. Most tell how precise everything must be, meaning no taper and thickness of the plating being even etc. After all the Nikasil is only a few thousands of an inch thick. Most say they can not be bored just lightly honed. I can only see pictures of cylinders on the web sites! They say "send cylinders to" I can just see pushing the bike into the shop or bringing in the entire engine/transmission and asking them to rebore/replate or other wise repair anything on a cylinder THAT CAN'T BE REWMOVED FROM THE BLOCK. It would be fun to watch and listen to the owner cry about how much easier to work on and how much better this new engine and transmission are. Someone commented on here that having the tranny and engine block together with a wet clutch would allow you to not have to "part the bike in half" to work on the clutch? I would think that it would be difficult not being able to open up the bottom side of the engine below the crank. I guess splitting the case isn't so bad huh? I wonder if this service will be offered from BMW? Over sized pistons and rings etc. We will see! If it were me, I would damn sure have engine protection bars on it.
I owned an entertainment center that had several components together. Never again. One thing goes out and the whole works goes in for repairs.
OK boys, rip my ass! That is my opinion and I am sticking to it. This is all I have to say about this.

[996DL]

It is the end of the world as we know it...

996DL

[norseXL]

Originally Posted by ragtoplvr

anything built can be rebuilt. Nikasil is a plating process. It can be plated again. It can be sleeved. there will be ways. If you ever need to, that is. If after 200K miles, you need to rebuild, probably a light hone, high service limit pistons, rebuild heads, good for another 200K

and there will be so many low mileage blocks out there that it will be less expensive to buy a engine from a totaled bike, and use it.

Worry about something important.

+1 on that.

[marchyman]

Originally Posted by KSBEERHUNTER

... asking them to rebore/replate or other wise repair anything on a cylinder THAT CAN'T BE REWMOVED FROM THE BLOCK.

Hasn't been an issue with K bikes for the last 28 years. Maybe they never need a rebore/replate... maybe it's not that much of a big deal to send the block.

[PirateJohn]

The original K-bikes will run something silly like 300K miles. If BMW could get that kind of longevity out of a water-cooled boxer I'd be impressed.

[KSBEERHUNTER]

Originally Posted by marchyman

Hasn't been an issue with K bikes for the last 28 years. Maybe they never need a rebore/replate... maybe it's not that much of a big deal to send the block.

They have been rebuilt! Come on Mr Glaves, Antone, anybody!!
If you look at a K bike engine. It would be a snap because cylinders are all on the same side of the crank. Getting to the bottom end and getting to the main and rod bolts would be a snap to remove the crank and repair. Very easy to hone or bore.
Jesus! Please somebody else that has over hauled an engine please explain this better than I can! I suppose that by looking at a BMW oil cooled boxer engine you can't figure out that if you pushed something into either cylinder that you are going to run into the crank, rod and piston on the other side. With a K engine this is not a problem because the "bottom end" comes off. No need to split the case. Air head owners please speak out too! The engine has an oil pan on the bottom. It can be removed and then the main bearing cap bolts and rod bolts can be removed. The cylinders can be removed too. Crank dropped out of the way. No split case!! Oil head owners have you noticed yet that you do not have an oil pan on the bottom to remove to get to the crank? Are you going to bore or hone with the crank in there? Or how are you going to tighten the rod bolts onto the crank after both pistons are in those new water cooled cylinders that don't come off? And no, the crank is not going to come out through the cylinders. That is the beauty of having the cylinders removable. On K engines you assemble from the botton end which is easy to get to. No cylinders to remove. No case to split. One piece head etc. a snap.
I only can hope that these new water cooled boxers do not have the cylinders cast into the block and not removable. All we know so far are rumors. I am concerned because unlike others I don't purchase a new model every time one comes out. I prefer to rebuild when needed. I see good engineering when something is built to last a long time and can be rebuilt easily when required. Not something that is built as cheaply as possible and gets you by for a while then replace it. Lastly, I hope I live long enough to attend a BMWMOA national many years from now. I want to see what is on display as far as classics and antiques etc. I wonder what will survive/

[Marki_GSA]

You have would have to strip the engine whether a k or a cast block boxer. If it has done so many miles that it needs a reborn or plating its pretty certain other internals need work anyway. You simply would never bore an engine with any other parts attached. Yes it's more hassle than present but in all honesty if I needed a reborn through wear or damage I would be wanting a look at the crank and stuff anyway. All this assumes that it isn't actually wet liners anyway. Honestly if you think the old aircooled is better and infinitely rebuildable then stick with it. You will get parts for decades to come and should be very happy. Why slate something just because it dares to progress and look forward. Everything has to either evolve or die and you either move with the times or stay in the past. Do you want to go back to a black and white glass tv with valves or keep the nice lcd tv with electronics? Anybody can fix valve tv's so surely they are better?

[ragtoplvr]

When the crank is 90 degrees from TDC there will be pretty good access to the rod nuts. Non-issue. If you take care of the bike, I would expect well over 200 K. Hopefully the cam chain guides can be replaced without major disassembly, that to me would be a bigger issue, they can and do fail sooner than the cylinders wear out.

I would count on there being pretty good supply of low mileage engines from bikes that get totaled.

Rod

[JimVonBaden]

I don't get it???

How many R1100/1150/1200 bikes actually require any sort of major engine work, let alone rebuilding/reboring? IMHO it is a non-issue.

Jim