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Old 06-05-2012, 12:49 PM   #556
kbroderick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n2deep1901 View Post
if you can't find the afx 39, they fit the same as the FLY trekker helmet. Just bought the fx39 off ebay for $105 and love it. Ventilation is great, light weight, little nosy but really not bad, slight glare/reflection but not enough to bother me (only see it when i look for it). Better refrence on sizing, i wear an hjc 2xl, scorpion xl, and afc/fly xl.
The fit is not the same.

I fit a large Trekker pretty well, while a large AFX-39 has my head swimming in it and a medium AFX-39 is a bit more snug than ideal.

I like both versions (it is the same shell), and I prefer some of the touches on the AFX-39 (breath guard and ratcheting chin strap, in particular), but the fit is different between the two renditions of the helmet.
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Old 06-05-2012, 01:08 PM   #557
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Agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbroderick View Post
The fit is not the same.
You got that right.. here's my review with photos:
http://www.basherdesigns.com/2012/04...ts-afx-vs-fly/

It's great we have a wide choice of options here with the AFX & Fly to fit all the different size/shaped noggins!

Shortly, I'll have a follow up review of my Fly from my 1000+ mile trip with BigDog...so far .. me likey
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Old 06-05-2012, 03:14 PM   #558
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There may be a small differnence in the cheak pads, but size wise, I tried on an xl trekker and it fits the same way as the
fx-39 i just bought.
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Old 06-05-2012, 04:07 PM   #559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n2deep1901 View Post
There may be a small differnence in the cheak pads, but size wise, I tried on an xl trekker and it fits the same way as the
fx-39 i just bought.
I usually wear large but I read here that the FX-39 is too large and going with medium switches to the smaller shell size and the nose hits the front...that's why I went with the true in size large Trekker and I'm very happy with the fit.
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Old 06-05-2012, 04:14 PM   #560
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Yea BP has said the size break is in the helmet mold between the AFX medium and AFX large. From what I understand the XL in either are the same mold. Unlike the AFX med vs Fly large.

Im sure he could explain it exactly.
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Old 06-06-2012, 05:54 AM   #561
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I think I will go with the small to be safe. My HJC is a medium and now that the padding has compressed a bit it isn't as tight as it used to be.
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Old 06-06-2012, 07:17 AM   #562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bash3r View Post
Yea BP has said the size break is in the helmet mold between the AFX medium and AFX large. From what I understand the XL in either are the same mold. Unlike the AFX med vs Fly large.

Im sure he could explain it exactly.
The mold is apparently the same for all mediums and smaller and for all larges and bigger; i.e. size <= medium is one mold for both the AFX and the Fly, and size >= large is another mold. Both seem to share the same shells in those size groupings, but the internal padding is sufficiently different that the AFX runs small.

I first ordered an AFX in a large, which is my usual helmet size and was true to the tape measurement-to-size chart provided by AFX. It was on the loose side; if it had already been packed out, I think I would have been happy with the fit, but I was pretty sure that I'd be swimming in it once it did pack out. I exchanged it for a medium, which fit fairly well (just a bit on the snug side and would get uncomfortable after about 1.5-2 hours). The Fly Trekker in a large fits pretty well; it's still not perfect, but I'm pretty sure it's a head shape issue, not a helmet size issue.
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:59 AM   #563
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Because of the very high tooling cost, helmets are produced using a fewer # of exterior shell molds than actual sizes. Most helmets are made using 2 or 3 shell molds, usually broken down like this:

If 2 Molds:
Small Shell: sizes XS, S, M
Large Shell: Sizes L, XL, 2XL

If 3 Molds:
Small Shell: sizes XS, S
Medium Shell: Sizes M, L
Large Shell: Sizes XL, 2XL, 3XL

Different sizes within a shell mold are made using different thicknesses of comfort liner, different EPS layer volume, or both. Some high end helmets have multiple EPS molds, but most of the time, brands use thickness of the comfort liner to vary sizes.

The AFX runs larger than normal, about a full size. This creates an odd situation, where someone who normally wears an L, now needs an M - putting them in the small shell. The AFX is a good shape, and fits well (always view "fit" and "sizing" as two different things, most users do not separate the two). Overall, again, we like the fit of the FX-39, but for some users the fit of the size medium is not ideal. For this reason, we contact customers who purchase sizes M and L helmets to verify they have used the size chart. We also ask a few questions about their height, weight, shoe, and glove size, which gives vague hints about their bone structure.

For customers who fall into the size S range, or other sizes, there are usually no fit issues. A size S wearer is typically in a smaller shell anyway, so that is usually a non issue. Additionally, the fact that an S wearer has a thicker comfort liner is somewhat an advantage; more foam is better once it packs in. Our experience is that the foam on these packs in a little more than typical, probably reflecting its price point. But if this is known ahead of time it is a non issue.

The Fly Trekker fits more consistent with other helmets (hate the words "true to size", they are virtually meaningless). So, a Large fits like MOST other larges, etc. We have found, when a customer falls into the size M range on the AFX size chart (which is surprisingly accurate), they often prefer a size L Fly Trekker. This is not based on 1 or 2 anecdotes, but a much larger base of review. Other sizes seem to have no tipping of preference. But for people in that 22.75" - 23.25" measurement range (statistically the highest %age) preference clearly tips to the Fly Trekker.

This is a little bit of a bummer, because the AFX guys are really good people, and the FX-39 is a hit for them. Long time industry people, genuine, fair, they support their customers, dealers, and products well above average. The Fly people are great too, but it is hard to ignore that AFX were first to market, and make only helmets. But, we try to focus on the best product for each given customer, budget, type of riding, etc. so in some cases, we recommend the Fly.

FWIW occasionally when we explain this to customers, they spin out and cancel their order, so we lose a few sales too. But our goal is to be product focused, and not to become some sort of Irwin Mainway.

I cannot speak for anyone else's experiences, but in ours the SIZING of the Trekker and the AFX is vastly different. If you are buying from some other source, feel free to disregard this.

*One other thing: I have done a little helmet product development, but never worked in this level of detail at the consumer level with one model. When we first started selling these, we called AND emailed every single customer to verify their measurement against the size chart. I knew that most people buy their helmets too large, heard it a thousand times. But it was a real learning experience to see how widespread this really is. So, so many people just buy off their legacy size, never measure their head. Some people buy a size larger because they don't want to have to return it (!!!!!!!). We literally have had people order an XL, and found that they spec'd to a size Small. Even in this thread, there are a few people that have what we smirkingly call "outlier opinions".

I want to circle back to why we sell these. Generally speaking, we like cheap helmets and expensive helmets, but are wary of mid-price units. We like the premium ones (Arai and Shoei) for obvious reasons, they are excellent and lead the drive for improved safety. We like inexpensive ones based on a college paper I did on the Hurt Report, many years ago. One of his assumptions, was that in most cases people who died in an MC incident would have been saved wearing any helmet. Of course a premium helmet could have / would likely have been better, but statistically, he felt that just getting people in a helmet was the goal - so making them ACCESSIBLE was the best method. Times have changed, and most people wear helmets now (cheap helmets are also much, much better than they used to be). The premium vs value helmet debate is is ongoing. But, for us, it is a common sense goal to get as many people as we can, into the MOST safety equipment we can, of the best quality we can, for whatever their budget is. This helmet (and the Trekker) does a good job of filling that goal.

Thanks,
BP
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Brtp4 screwed with this post 06-06-2012 at 10:56 AM
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:30 AM   #564
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Love my DS 39, its a size smaller than I wear normally, but fits perfect. I removed the clear screen and opted for a light tint "for all conditions" since its too tricky to swap out. It cuts out enough sun to make it bearable without making night too dark. The indents are great on the shield and I use all the modes. If you wear glasses, its not the best since its nice and tight fitting. My glasses are on and in there but basically rest on my nose and the side bars are angled UP to keep them in position. I wanted yellow but all I found quickly was urban camo. Not bad for a $129 helmet!
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:02 PM   #565
Brtp4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockinrog View Post
BRTP4 is this what you are waiting for to come in?

Does it pivot independently of the main shield?
Hi rr.

Uhhhhhh.....finally figured out the reason we are is late to the party on this. We kept checking the part number, and it continually showed as not yet available. I was a little off balance when I saw they were available elsewhere. After 2x checking, we figured out that there is a light smoke, not yet available, and a dark smoke, that is available now. We have ordered them and they are on their way.

They will be on the site in a few hours.

AFA the pivoting, I have not held one in my hands, but as I understand, they pivot separately from the shield. I am 99% certain of this. (otherwise.....why not just get a tinted shield?).

Think the AFX guys are first (maybe only) to market with these.

Thanks again.

BP
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:24 PM   #566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brtp4 View Post

AFA the pivoting, I have not held one in my hands, but as I understand, they pivot separately from the shield. I am 99% certain of this. (otherwise.....why not just get a tinted shield?).

Think the AFX guys are first (maybe only) to market with these.

Thanks again.

BP
Thats one heck of a good idea.. especially for those of us who are looking down at GPS units, it's so much easier to see the screen when you aren't looking through tinted glass(plastic) out on the trail...let me know when Fly has it
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:06 PM   #567
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I got my sun shade today:



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Old 06-12-2012, 06:55 PM   #568
Brtp4
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Sun Shield

We finally got ours in, looked them over, and tried them on some helmets. Some pics:







They have one detent in between up and down, which you can see here. FWIW they will fit on both the FX-39 and the Fly Trekker. Have not ridden with it yet, but it is a cool idea, makes the helmet more versatile.

BP
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:12 PM   #569
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brtp4 View Post
We finally got ours in, looked them over, and tried them on some helmets. Some pics:







They have one detent in between up and down, which you can see here. FWIW they will fit on both the FX-39 and the Fly Trekker. Have not ridden with it yet, but it is a cool idea, makes the helmet more versatile.

BP
BP,

When flipped down do the two sheilds touch (can dirt trapped between scratch the sheilds)?
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:16 PM   #570
Brtp4
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BP,

When flipped down do the two sheilds touch (can dirt trapped between scratch the sheilds)?
Not in the way you are thinking. There is a little space, it does not have an absolute contact, and they do not move a lot. Plus they are fairly hard and scratch resistant.

Of course it is possible for them to scratch in general, but I think this is a non-issue.

Hope that helps!!

BP
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