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Old 02-11-2011, 11:06 AM   #1
Yardstick OP
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Question Super Enduro 6-Gallon Tank

Is anyone else wishing for a 6-gallon tank for the Super Enduro?

I don't want to make the SE into an Adventure (although I know many people do want this). That's why I have an Adventure! I like that the SE is stripped down, but I don't like that puny stock tank! I'm always carting around at least a gallon (sometimes two) of extra fuel on the tail rack!

I know there are options. I'm just not that excited about the options that are out there. The Safari tank seems too big and chunky. Also, I wasn't that impressed with the build quality of the one on my 625 SXC. The side panel tanks are out of production, aren't they? I like the dual exhaust anyway. So, where's our other option??

I have been looking at a few threads lately that gave me an idea.

Looking through the "Why two tanks?" thread made me think, why not on the SE? Aside from the reasons listed in that thread, one reason the Adventure's tanks can't be one piece is that they are form fitting to the tubing of the trellis frame. You can't do that with a one piece design!

The rally kit from www.rally-raidproducts.co.uk for the 690 uses front, side mounted tanks on its trellis frame to increase the range. So do a lot of other rally kits for other bikes.

So what about a two-tank, front-mounted system for the SE? Three gallons on each side. Recesses to fit to the trellis frame. Maybe even a better overall shape than the knee-banging stock tank!

I got out the crayons and started playing this morning to come up with this (I know, it's terrible -I am not an artist!):
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Old 02-11-2011, 11:17 AM   #2
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excellent idea, especially if they are made in such way so you can change the airfilter without removing them. Problem is, nobody builds them.
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:20 PM   #3
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If someone built it, I would buy it.
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:39 PM   #4
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Are they listening?!?

Yardstick,


A few people, including me, discussed something similar in this (Dust Buster's) thread...

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=624621


On a separate topic, the other day, Todd (of OC fame) told the people from KTM to pull their heads out of their posteriors (in regard to a "690 Adventure").

I agree with both of you. I have often wondered why nobody built a reasonable (~6 gallon) tank for the SE. And, I have always said that the first company to bring a mid-size, dakar-esque adventure bike, to this country (U.S.), would make a fortune.

This is the nature of this (my) post. Do these marketing dudes ever get on the damn internet? Do they even ride, or use the products that they sell? Do they have at least one finger on the pulse of the industry?

I thank my lucky stars for people like Kurt, C.J., Tim, Ned, David (P), James, Mitch, Ken, Charlie, etc., etc., etc. However, while they've done a GREAT job of keeping pressure on the hemorrhaging, they can't possibly plug every wound. They can't build every single thing that we need. This is where the big boys (KTM, Safari, IMS, etc.) need to start stepping-up.

C'mon you guys...Listen to the people who buy your bikes and products!!!



Rant over...Carry on.


.
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Old 02-11-2011, 02:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardstick View Post
The side panel tanks are out of production, aren't they?
Nope. Advtank is still in business.
http://www.advtank.com/

Sadly, given so few SE's were ever built/sold, it makes no sense for anyone to build tanks for it.
This has been hashed over and again on different threads...
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Old 02-11-2011, 03:38 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WARRIORPRINCEJJ View Post
...This is the nature of this (my) post. Do these marketing dudes ever get on the damn internet? Do they even ride, or use the products that they sell? Do they have at least one finger on the pulse of the industry? .

They were probably listening when they built the SE-- and then stewed as it took over 4 years to move what they thought would be a 1 year inventory.

And they probably were listening when they built the 950SM/SMR to take advantage of all the supermoto buzz mid decade.

And the less we say about the Superdukes and RC8s the better- though both were built to respond to hot trends and internet buzz.

It's real easy to make production bike decisions when you don't have responsibility for the success or failure of them.

KTM has been doing a fantastic job of building bikes-- but not such a great job of selling them. I think a good part of that is that they have some relatively minor, but well known (blown out of proportion?) issues (Adventure maintenence, water pump seals, clutch slave, fuel pump); and the styling is very assertive and not mainstream.

I really don't think larger fuel tanks would solve the probem.

I'm perfectly content to have them build very strong platforms, and rely on the creativity of the aftermarket to solve the peripheral issues.
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Old 02-11-2011, 04:36 PM   #7
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The 690 exists. It's a kewl bike and lots of folks have convincingly modified it to "adventure" status. Hell, you (J.J.) have seen the work I've put into my Adventure to make it "right." I don't think any company can nail it for every rider every time, but KTM comes pretty damn close with the all the 990's, 950's, 690, 640, 530?... Plus farkleing is fun!

Even if there was a 690 adventure I'm not sure I'd consider it, the LC8 is just too much fun! Now having a true little bike in the garage might be nice...

I too would love to see a bad-ass mid-sized twin adventure bike at <400 lbs., but like the SE there just might not be enough people to buy them. The people who would benefit from a dirt-worthy adventure bike over a plated dedicated dirt single OR a road biased BMW GS are def over-represented here on advrider. Most people/bikers have NO IDEA what adventure riding is all about, which is kinda okay with me! We have some options to choose from, which is great, but any bike I buy is gonna get hacked, drilled, bolted, sawed, tweaked to my preferences.

Sorry, getting a little off topic, but J.J. started it! When are you gonna go ahead and get that super-tanker Safari buddy??? You know you want it! Once you get it you'll wonder why it took you so long. And then you can actually ride somewhere!

Oh, and I have the ADVTANK and 2-into-1, it's a great solution for another 100 miles of range at ZERO weight gain or distribution. Don't even know it's there.
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Old 02-11-2011, 05:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardstick View Post
Is anyone else wishing for a 6-gallon tank for the Super Enduro?

I don't want to make the SE into an Adventure (although I know many people do want this). That's why I have an Adventure! I like that the SE is stripped down, but I don't like that puny stock tank! I'm always carting around at least a gallon (sometimes two) of extra fuel on the tail rack!

I know there are options. I'm just not that excited about the options that are out there. The Safari tank seems too big and chunky. Also, I wasn't that impressed with the build quality of the one on my 625 SXC. The side panel tanks are out of production, aren't they? I like the dual exhaust anyway. So, where's our other option??

I have been looking at a few threads lately that gave me an idea.

Looking through the "Why two tanks?" thread made me think, why not on the SE? Aside from the reasons listed in that thread, one reason the Adventure's tanks can't be one piece is that they are form fitting to the tubing of the trellis frame. You can't do that with a one piece design!

The rally kit from www.rally-raidproducts.co.uk for the 690 uses front, side mounted tanks on its trellis frame to increase the range. So do a lot of other rally kits for other bikes.

So what about a two-tank, front-mounted system for the SE? Three gallons on each side. Recesses to fit to the trellis frame. Maybe even a better overall shape than the knee-banging stock tank!

I got out the crayons and started playing this morning to come up with this (I know, it's terrible -I am not an artist!):



100% agree
i'd like more fuel but still keep a twin system. but i do not like the safari tank may as well buy a 950/990ADV if u want that porky look ... actually i think it looks worse than the ADV.
even a set of rear small dakar style tanks would do but made to retain the twin system.
or like another member mentioned a under seat tank similar to powercell's oil tank (i wanted the under seat oil tank but i'd rather it fuel)

P.S like the tank design you done
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Old 02-11-2011, 05:40 PM   #9
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Tank

I have the safari, didn't realy like the looks of it (but it grows on you). I only put 5 gal at a time in it, most of the time. Shure is nice to be able to put more tho.
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Old 02-11-2011, 06:26 PM   #10
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If I'm not mistaken the adv tanks equal about 5.8 gallons.

So, twin tanks on an SE may be about the same size/shape/look.

What is the current SE capacity?


Who knows what the future will bring.
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Old 02-11-2011, 07:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpbarlow View Post
I'm perfectly content to have them build very strong platforms, and rely on the creativity of the aftermarket to solve the peripheral issues.
I agree, not only b/c I'm one of the small guys, but I see it in production and sales of a product. Everyone wants something that's custom and useful for the them. That's great, I'm no different. That's the entire reason I started to do what I do 20yrs ago. It's my passion.

Unless the OEM can build and sell 1000s of a product, it's not worth there time to look into b/c they know they'll loose there ass.

Even alot of Aftermarket companies will only look at the Japanese bikes b/c of the volumes they produce. As a small shop trying to make useful parts to fit a need, it's challenging and sometime even Stupid to attempt. Every few months/years riders demand update and changes. KTM updates there bike so that makes us retool and redesign parts. This takes alot of time and effort. The low volumes of production is what sets the cost of products. Custom parts builders spend all this time working on a solution, and then you hear "Why does it cost so much? I can get a similar part for my "XXXXX" bike for way less." Riders can't expect custom produced parts at WALMART pricing.

Advrider is a great source of ideas. I try my best to follow ideas and trends that are worth while and devote the time I have to improve our riding experience. I ride KTM b/c of the Joy and thrill it gives me every time I'm on in.
I decided to build and work on these bikes, b/c I wanted something different and unique. If I wanted something built cheaper and use parts everyone else has available by looking at a catalog and pointing a finger, I would have chosen something else.

Long live the companies that dare to put out bikes that not everyone can throw a leg over, or see the reason of a 100HP dirt bike, and the small guys that keep thinking up crazy ideas and parts when everyone doubts.
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Old 02-11-2011, 07:57 PM   #12
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I haven't seen anyone address the fuel problem quite this way. Mounting the tanks at the front and sides, sort of like the Adventure seems like it would solve a lot of problems. Sorry mousitsas, I don't think there's any way to make the filter accessible without removing the tank(s) though.

Cool that Advtank is still going! I still want to keep the twin exhausts (others do to, apparently). I wonder if I could find out who made that tank. If I did the solid modeling for a dual tank system, could it be manufactured?

The existing Super Enduro tank capacity fluctuates depending on where you look. In a quick search I found 3.43 gallons, 3.7 gallons and this on KTM's Technical Data page on the SE: Tank capacity approx. 14.5 liters / 2.5 liters reserve (3.83 / 0.66 gal)

I think this could be done and would end up looking a lot different than what's on the Adventure. I'll continue to look into it for the few of us who are interested.
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjracer View Post

Long live the companies that dare to put out bikes that not everyone can throw a leg over, or see the reason of a 100HP dirt bike, and the small guys that keep thinking up crazy ideas and parts when everyone doubts.

Preach it brother! I love that many people "couldn't" ride my bike, even if they wanted to. Makes me feel special, as do the trick little parts you keep making, you pusher man! Crack rocks!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardstick View Post
I haven't seen anyone address the fuel problem quite this way. Mounting the tanks at the front and sides, sort of like the Adventure seems like it would solve a lot of problems. Sorry mousitsas, I don't think there's any way to make the filter accessible without removing the tank(s) though.

Cool that Advtank is still going! I still want to keep the twin exhausts (others do to, apparently). I wonder if I could find out who made that tank. If I did the solid modeling for a dual tank system, could it be manufactured?

The existing Super Enduro tank capacity fluctuates depending on where you look. In a quick search I found 3.43 gallons, 3.7 gallons and this on KTM's Technical Data page on the SE: Tank capacity approx. 14.5 liters / 2.5 liters reserve (3.83 / 0.66 gal)

I think this could be done and would end up looking a lot different than what's on the Adventure. I'll continue to look into it for the few of us who are interested.
On the Adventure you can access the filter w/o removing tanks, just go in from the top under the glove box, I've done it several times, even on the trail. Supposedly one can go all the way in to do a valve adjustment this way (I suspect this is all part of the Dakar design), but I like to have a little more access for tools and sight lines if I'm going that deep.

Why not strip down an Adventure if fuel capacity is what you're after? There's a pic around here somewhere of an Adventure that didn't have the screen or front fairings/nav tower (but kept the side tanks), and some minimal body work and headlight were put together in a sorta attractive way (as attractive as these monster hacked dual-sports can be! ).

Seriously though, some of these threads make me chuckle a bit. The Adventure and the SE are SO closely related, the same! What makes the SE so unusual/unique/desirable/fun are the very things that many here are trying to "solve" which have already been addressed with the Adventure, and vice-versa. The Adventures that garner the most attention are the ones that have been made most like an SE (taller suspension, lighter, high fender, stronger wheels, etc) and the SE's that every one talks about are made more like an adventure (Luggage, fuel cap., rally fairing, sub-frame, etc.). God bless them both!

Not trying to quash creative thinking, I'm guilty of that too, I have a new project in mind myself... Just sayin. Why re-invent the wheel?

Oh, and Pete640 is apparently working on adventure rear rally tanks. We're waiting for pics. That'll require a whole new exhaust routing, but might be an option for some SERIOUS fuel capacity on both sides. I'm sure they'll look funny on a SE! Love me those Rally fairings!
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Old 02-12-2011, 12:02 AM   #14
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Yardstick,


I apologize for the threadjack. I was trying to agree with you, and (apparently) opened a can of worms (another one of my many talents).



If you can humor me, one more time, I felt the need to respond...

For the record, I love KTM. I happen to own two of 'em. In fact, during one of the worst times in the motorcycle market (2009/2010), I spent a good deal of my hard-earned dollars buying bikes and parts (to do my tiny part)...trying to keep KTM afloat.

That being said, maybe Mr. Barlow is correct. Maybe KTM was listening when they built a 100hp, (dirt) literbike that most can't straddle, and would never have any desire of owning. Maybe they were listening when they built two 475lb., twin-cylinder supermotos, in response to all the mid-decade "supermoto buzz" that was dominated by sub-275lb. "converted" thumpers. And, maybe they were listening when they entered an $18,000 repli-racer in a market chock full of $11,000 superbikes. I don't know...can't say...I don't possess the expertise to analyze those production bike decisions.

What I do know is that there are several DR650, 530/525 EXC, XR650 R/L, 690/690R, and DRZ-400 owners (to mention a few) who are trying to add a "Dakar" style fairing to their bikes, and build the mid-size "adventure" bike that no manufacturer is currently building (with the exception of the XT660Z, which is not imported into the States). In my very humble opinion, if any manufacturer were to step-up, and sell a mid-size adventure bike to one in every ten of the above owners, there would be money to be made. Call me prejudice...but, I would like KTM to be that manufacturer.

I am not content with "very strong platforms". To that, my response would be, "You'd better be building very strong platforms...because every other manufacturer is. Those who don't, in this competitive market, will go the way of the dinosaur." To me, very strong platforms are just a reality of doing business in today's motorcycle market.

Diek is right, no one manufacturer will ever build the "one size fits all" bike. And, yes, farkleing can be fun...right up until the point that you realize that you have $20,000 in a bike that will not bring $7,000 on the used market. So, if you are gonna' farkle, why not start out on a platform that is as close to the bike of your dreams as possible? For many, that bike is not currently being offered.



Getting back to the gas tank(s)...

I was, in no way, trying to imply that larger gas tanks would save the day. In my initial post, I was trying to make the observation that some manufacturers seem "out of touch" in the products that they do or don't bring to production.

For instance, how did Safari arrive at eight gallons (30L)? Did they do any market research? And, if they did, why do so many SE owners (myself and Yardstick included) wish for a ~six-gallon tank?

At this point in time, I would rather pull-out all of my toenails, with a pair of pliers, than to invest $800 in a plastic fuel container. However, if I want to enjoy my current ride to it's full potential, I will probably have to make that investment...all the while wishing for a different tank.

YMMV...


.
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WARRIORPRINCEJJ screwed with this post 02-12-2011 at 12:36 AM
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Old 02-13-2011, 12:03 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WARRIORPRINCEJJ View Post

At this point in time, I would rather pull-out all of my toenails, with a pair of pliers, than to invest $800 in a plastic fuel container. However, if I want to enjoy my current ride to it's full potential...
I gave up too. After 2 years of begging gas from ATV riders and hunters, and almost running out again last week, I finally ordered the Safari.

I too wish there were other options, but in 2 years of owning the bike, I haven't heard consistently good reviews about any of the products...
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