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Old 03-29-2011, 03:46 PM   #121
Charla OP
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Very cool.

I can't wait to see what the little guy thinks of his sweet new bike.
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Old 03-29-2011, 04:11 PM   #122
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This picture makes me want to quit claiming to know anything about welding.
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Old 03-29-2011, 04:39 PM   #123
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This picture makes me want to quit claiming to know anything about welding.

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Old 04-01-2011, 08:47 PM   #124
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Clips from today, it's kind of long and not very exciting. Ben didn't get any video of me riding the smaller rocks but pulling up the wheelie was new for me today. I feel like I'm This || close to being able to balance on the rear wheel. It's probably more like this |................................................. ..| but I'm going to keep trying.



Ben's "clip of the day"



and in slow mo.

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Old 04-01-2011, 11:23 PM   #125
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and in slow mo.




[/QUOTE]

i have that one mastered on my Mod
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:10 AM   #126
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Bike Trials Sticky

Hello good folks on ADV. I joined this forum a while back but have only been lurking. I ride moto trials with many folks on this forum. There is one guy here though makes me suspect about this place (Chris). JK. I have many bikes in my garage including a 2003 MZ Scorpion Traveler. I have been riding bike trials for @ 2 years now but I did buy a brand new Monty Ot Pi 20 inch bike in 1987 for $600 bucks. Bought it from Gary Jackson (RIP) who was a moto dealer out of Houston. Fast forward many years and I wanted my son to ride bike trials and found www.observedtrials.net. Not long after I picked up a Planet X Zebdi stock formerly made in Australia but still out there. I then purchased a Meta out of Canada through a New Hampshire dealer www.trialspads.com.

This long post is to provide a bit of the basics on bike trials. So bear with me.

** THE BEGINNER FAQ**


This question comes up fairly often. And I somewhat relate it to buying a car. Can a novice driver ONLY drive a shitty Civic, or can he drive a Ferrari? Answer is, he can drive the Ferrari. He is 10000% capable of leering how to drive in the Ferrari just as well as the Civic as it's all new and foreign. He may not "appreciate the differences", but that's not the topic at hand, and that wasn't what was asked. The questions you ask yourself after, well, they don't really relate to biking/trials, so we'll stop it there.

People first starting out are always asking "Is this bike good? What about this one? What would you recommend?"

More often than not, people will point you towards something a bit more burly and "abusable" (like the whole civic analogy). Fact is, along with burly, comes weight. Tossing around a 30lb bike is not going to be as fun, nor as easy as it is to toss around a 22lb bike.

Now a days, a "run of the mill" stock complete comes in somewhere around 22-24lbs, and the mods come in somewhere around the 20-22lb range. Obviously, lighter = more expensive. But many of the completes available today, will not come with the uber lightweight stuff unless specifically noted or intended. i.e. Tarty has "lightweight builds". Be advised though, usually the lightweight stuff isn't necessarily more delicate per say, but it's not designed to be as durable under the same circumstances in the hand of an unsmooth rider. i.e. It can take 10ft drops to flat no problem. But not under somebody who just hucks off of it. That's where the lightweight stuff comes into play. They're durable enough, just not for somebody that's ALWAYS landing really heavy, or unsmoothly.



They typical question: "Is this a good first bike?" And they link to something like:



or for you prospective stock riders:





OK, first off, the first thing most people will tell you is:

1. "That bike is too expensive for a beginner to learn on."
2. "Why don't you get something with more neutral geometry?"
3. "There are better bikes for you to learn on such as _____."


#1 Who the hell are they to decide what's too expensive to learn on? If you have the cash to be able to afford a higher end bike, get it. Period. Don't let anybody tell you it's too $$$ for a beginner or whatever. If you can afford to start off on the best equipment, do it.

#2 When starting out, it is ALL new and foreign. Higher BB (or whatever else) may be niche, or whatever reason they give you, but it being all new, it's all going to be the same to you learning curve wise. It won't hinder or help you one way or the other. In essence, the learning curve is the same.

#3 Are those neutral or older bikes really better for a beginner? OK, so it's burlier and cheaper. On the flip side, you have a heavier bike that has geometry more designed around stability on two wheels and/or not necessarily what's best for anything else. And in the end, it becomes a bike much harder to toss around comparatively. Again, it goes back to #1, if you can afford the light and/or better stuff, why not? Most of todays completes are built around the compromise of durability and weight anyways as most people who buy completes are usually either

A. First time riders
or
B. somebody who wants the compromise of light vs. strong guesswork done for them.

So DON'T hesitate to get the higher end bike IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT. Rest assured all of the parts in those completes are more than adequate for a beginner or pro. Again, the guesswork is taken out. Most people start out on lower end stuff mainly because of cost. I would say that's 95% of the reasoning behind choosing a bike to start out on. The other 5% usually being scared to try the higher end stuff in fear of it collapsing under them. The bike is fine. As stated, most of the "uber lightweight" stuff is noted as such and I feel, for the most part, is pretty self explanatory. And a point most people overlook or not even consider is that along with more skill, smooth-ness, and technique, comes the demand for the part to hold up under them. No pro or experienced person would put something under them that jeopardizes their safety, regardless of the weight.

In the end, there really ISN'T a "Is this a good first bike for a beginner?". It all usually comes down to price point of what you can afford. And if you've noticed when looking around, all the cheaper stuff usually has the neutral geometry anyways. The big misconception about high end/expensive completes is that they're "reserved for experienced riders". No, they're for ANYBODY. If you were experienced, more often than not chances are you'd build your bike from scratch or from parts of your last bike. It just happens that the more experienced riders are the ones who spend more money.


Here's something to get things started, the values I've listed are common to stock bikes, I am not familiar with mods. Please point out any mistakes you see.

wheelbase: 1030mm-1100mm.
shorter = easier to bunnyhop and spin
longer = easier to tap, gap

head tube angle: 71-74 degrees.
slacker (71) = better for taps, gaps to front, shortens overall reach
steeper (74) = easier to pivot on front, lengthens overall reach, steers/handles better at low speeds compared to a slack HA
generally a shorter wheelbase frame will have a steep HA, and a longer frame will have it more slack

chainstay length: 377mm-390mm.
shorter chainstays = easier to balance on the rear wheel in a static position, harder to keep balance point for manuals, harder to bunnyhop, less stable on two wheels, less power for gaps.
longer chainstays = less stable when standing on rear wheel, more stable on two wheels, more power for gaps

bottom bracket height: 0 or lower, all the way up to +60mm
higher = more stable when standing on back wheel, less stable on two wheels
lower = more stable on two wheels but less stable standing on rear wheel





GEAR RATIOS (again, this applies to stock frames, as I know nothing about mods)

The most common trials gear ratios are:

18:15 = 1.200
18:16 = 1.125

Formerly, the most popular ratios were:

22:19 = 1.158
22:18 = 1.222


As you can see, they are mathematically similar. Riders have moved toward smaller chain rings and cogs for maximum clearance (and a very small amount of weight savings), but running a trials RATIO is more important than the size of your cog and chain ring.

The 'old school' ratios are a good choice for regular mountain bikes that are being modified for trials, as an 18t front chain ring can only be used with a front freewheel or Middleburns cranks.

These are by no means the only ratios to run. Some trials riders use 20t chain rings, and riders who lean toward street style tend to pick a harder ratio like 22:17 = 1.294.

Riders of mods and 24s may have different requirements.

Mod vs Stock


Stock = bike with 26 inch wheels, its called stock because it used to be a standard mountain bike with seat, gears, etc. This was back before trials frames became super specific.

Mod = bike with 20 inch wheels, got its name because it was modified from a stock bike to be more trials specific

These days, however, stock frames often have similar characteristics to mods. Sometimes people will refer to these frames as modstock.

It should also be noted that what was once considered trials-specific years ago, is now considered to be more street-trials oriented. Older 26s tend to have lower bb height, longer chainstays, and shorter wheelbase than modern frames.

What tire pressure should I run?


There is no right or wrong answer to this question. It comes down to personal preference, riding style, size of rider, etc.

However, we can give you some general guidelines...

If you are going to ride mostly urban/street trials and you want to really roll and flow, start around 30 or 40 psi. You can lower pressure mid-ride a lot easier than you can increase it. Danny Mac runs about 60 psi, but he's a smoother rider than you, so he doesn't break his wrists.

For pure trials the range seems to be about 15-25 psi. Some people like to run the lowest possible psi, decreasing pressure until their tire is JUST about to fold over the rim. Other guys like a little bit more cushion than that. The terrain may also be a factor. Urban vs natural. Mossy rocks vs grippy ones, etc.

In short: Aim for a little more psi then necessary, then lower mid-ride as desired. Over time you will find what works best for you and what you are most comfortable with.

These aren't just trials terms, these are widely used in any cycling forum.

bb = bottom bracket

Chainstay = the distance from the center of rear axle to center of bb. Although there is a part of the frame called "chainstays", typically in conversation it's referring to this distance, not the actual tube of the frame.

Here's a good diagram:



or



If there are any other terms, simply google "bicycle ______" ___ being whatever term it is you're curious about. 9/10 a wiki page or some other shit will be the first result explaining what it is.

So there you have some basics. Here are a few very good links or videos, and heck yea a picture of my Meta.

List of Manufacturers**UP TO DATE**


RETAILERS

USA:
http://www.webcyclery.com
http://www.midwestbiketrials.com/
http://www.trialspads.com


Europe:
http://www.tartybikes.co.uk
http://www.selectbikes.com
http://www.Trials-uk.co.uk
http://www.trialprod.com
http://www.trialsman.co.uk/
http://www.supercycles.co.uk/

Australia:
http://www.biketrialsaustralia.com
http://www.ribbed.com.au/
http://www.expressivebikes.com
http://www.trialshive.com
http://www.trialsden.com

Other:
http://www.hbtrials.com/ (Quebec)
http://www.trialmarkt.de/ (Germany)
http://www.baiabros.com (Canada)
http://www.zapatabikes.com (Columbia)
http://www.pachotrial.com (Columbia)
http://www.trials.pl/ (Poland)
http://www.biketrialbrasil.com/ (Brazil)
http://www.thetrialsinshop.com (Canada)
http://www.wherestheseat.com (Canada)
http://cbtrials.com/ (Canada)

BIKES

Asia:
Araya - http://www.araya-kk.co.jp/
Echo, Zoo, Gu, Adamant, Czar - http://www.echobike.com
Toxsin - http://www.toxsin-bikes.com/news.html
V!z - http://www.vizbikes.com/
Zhi - http://www.zhibike.cc/

Europe:
Atomz - http://www.atomz.fr
Ashton - http://www.ashtonbikes.com/
Base - http://www.basebikes.com
BT - http://www.btbike.com
Ciguena - http://www.bike4.eu
Heatsink - http://www.heatsinkbikes.com
Hoffmann - http://www.hoffmannbikes.de
KOXX - http://koxx.fr/
Leeson - http://www.leesonbikes.co.uk/
MBK - http://www.mbk-cycles.com/
Mielec - http://www.bikemielec.com/
Monty - http://www.monty.es/
Onza - http://www.onza.com
Ozonys - http://www.ozonys.com/
Revell - http://www.revellbicycles.com/
Saracen - http://www.saracencycles.com/
Sunn - http://www.sunnbicycle.com
Syntace - http://www.syntace.com
V!z - http://www.vizbikes.com
Yaabaa - http://yaabaa.com/

North America:
Reset - http://www.resetthisworld.com/
Simtra - http://www.cycles-simtra.com/
Monty - http://www.montycanada.com or http://www.tangal.com/
Meta - http://www.metabike.com/
Sinister - http://www.sinisterbikes.com/
Bloodline - http://www.bloodlinebike.com/

Other:
Triton - http://www.tritonframes.com/ (Russia)
Monty - http://www.monty.com.au (Australia)
Stark - http://www.trialshive.com/ (Russia)
Speedrace - http://biketrial.cn/
Rockman - http://rockmanbikes.com/ (Singapore)

COMPONENTS

(some of the manufacturers above also make components)

Alex - http://www.alexrims.com/
Chris King - http://www.chrisking.com
DMR - http://www.dmrbikes.com
Easton - http://www.eastonbike.com/
FSA - http://www.fullspeedahead.com/
Heatsink - http://www.heatsinkbikes.com/
Hope - http://www.hopetech.com/
KMC - http://www.kmcchain.com/
Magura - http://www.magura.com/
Maxxis - http://www.maxxis.com/
Middleburn - http://www.middleburn.co.uk
Michelin - http://www.michelin-us.com/
Plazmatic - http://www.plazmaticbrakes.com/
Shimano - http://www.shimano.com
Sram, Avid, Truvativ, Rock Shox - http://www.sram.com
TNN Engeneering - http://www.tnnengineering.com/
Try All - http://www.try-all.com
Trial Tech - http://www.trialtech.co.uk/
Thompson - http://www.lhthomson.com/bikes.htm
White industries - http://www.whiteind.com/
Woodman - http://www.woodmancomponents.com/
True Precision Machining - http://www.trueprecision.net/
Industy Nine - http://www.industrynine.net/
Trident - http://www.tridentbike.com/
Hadley Racing -
(909)946-6780
1937-A W. 11th St.
Upland, CA
91786
Yess - http://labs.yesspro.com/


OTHER TRIALS INFO

http://www.trials-online.com/
http://www.biketrials.com/
http://www.blindbiketrials.com




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5AP2LmSYBM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt2JEnWT2Hc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp3ud8r4-dg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGuB77YK7Tg

This one is me about 1.5 years ago, my entry for an internet contest (I didn't win).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r92ZY1Htnzs

San Yisdro - February event that I hosted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3pGxaDBEbs

The majority of this information was cop-ied from http://www.observedtrials.net/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=21

Log in and join OTN, most folks are friendly with a nice introduction.
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AteamNM screwed with this post 04-07-2011 at 01:20 PM
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Old 04-07-2011, 11:24 AM   #127
NMTrailboss
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WOW Tony!! Great information!! Thanks for chiming in here!

This answered most of the newbie questions I had about the bicycles!
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:52 PM   #128
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this forum needs for TRA
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Motorfiets screwed with this post 04-07-2011 at 04:03 PM
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:00 PM   #129
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Holy Moly that was a nice post!!
(and I work in the bicycle industry).
Thanks for putting in the time for a bunch of motorheads.
Cheers,
S.
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:52 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by AteamNM View Post
There is one guy here though makes me suspect about this place (Chris).
I agree, Tony. CJ (rideNM) is pretty suspect.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:36 PM   #131
Charla OP
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Thanks for chiming in Tony.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:47 PM   #132
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I have been over at OTN and posted up looking for info on building a trials bike for my son...great people and great info...what would we do without these cool sites.

Thanks for posting Tony.
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Old 04-07-2011, 11:23 PM   #133
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I have been over at OTN and posted up looking for info on building a trials bike for my son...great people and great info...what would we do without these cool sites.
Have more money in our pockets.
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Old 04-07-2011, 11:30 PM   #134
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Have more money in our pockets.
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Old 04-08-2011, 08:25 AM   #135
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I agree, Tony. CJ (rideNM) is pretty suspect.
OK, I'm speaking up for that HRC belt buckle...
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