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Old 03-09-2011, 01:25 AM   #1
Steve_Col OP
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R100GS _ PD - hard to start - then runs well?

I bought a R100 GS - Paris Dakar (1994) 2 months ago
Runs good. - Am real happy

However - just laterly: when cold it has become hard to start.
Ambient temperature around 10 - 18 degrees Celsius.

I giver her choke NO throttle - she turns over - immediately sounds as if it wants to start - firing (has spark). but does not start. I churn that crank - electric start over and over. I cannot help myself "tweaking the throttle" just a touch.

Eventually she fires up on one cylinder : rattles and rolls this way for 2/3 seconds + then the other cylinder kicks in - = away she goes Sweet As!
Never any trouble to start when warm / hot.

Unsure if it be the same cylinder she starts on.

I found on the forum : http://www.largiader.com/tech/carbs/

" ...starting routine consists of three crucial steps.
  1. I open the fuel petcocks
  2. I turn the choke.
  3. I push the starter button.
The engine starts immediately and as it starts to speed up I reduce the choke*, or I ride off and turn it off after a half mile.
Actually there was really a Step Zero that is more important than these: I cleaned the carbs. And when I say "cleaned" I don't mean that I sprayed some GumOut into the carb intakes; I really cleaned them. I used my Really Nasty Cleaning Stuff and made sure that every trace of fuel residue or corrosion was gone and that the carbs were truly in new condition. Clean carbs won't solve all problems worldwide, but they go a long way towards making the bikes run well.



Hmmm any suggestion(s)



I did give her new sparking plugs.


Ought I "clean the carbs?"


.

thnx

.
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:18 AM   #2
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You will likely get more airhead wisdom in the Old's Cool forum. This is forum for the new parallel twins, which are completely different animals.

Nice looking PD though.
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:32 AM   #3
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can a moderator transfer the psot for me ?

can a moderator transfer the post for me ?
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:20 PM   #4
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Moved to Old's Cool.
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:13 PM   #5
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I had the same issue...check your valves. I let mine go too long and had hard starting, rough idle, loss of power etc...
Adjusted the valves and now it's like a different bike. Just remember, airheads tend to be cold blooded and even properly tuned up are not the easiest things to start in cold (or even cool) weather. Good luck!
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:51 PM   #6
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Everything else being right, it is a classic example of the jet needle clip grooves being worn out. They will wear from four to three, then two, then one 10mm long groove.

It could be something you did while you cleaned them. Choke in backwards or wrong side? Choke cables? Mixture screw adjustments and throttle cables? It could be about anything. Good luck!
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:52 PM   #7
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Steve, like yours, my new 1991 R100GS sometimes started on one cylinder only, then the other cylinder would begin. Dealer mechanics adjusted throttle cables, choke cables, and it started up perfectly so off I went. The bike was kept in a heated garage so it didn't happen often. But starting it outside after it had cooled down, in cold weather is when it did its "start and run on one cylinder" deal. It usually would stall and I'd have to re-start it where it did the same thing again. After a few starts the second cylinder would finally kick in and all was normal..... until the next cold start. I could probably have lived with it but it was under warranty so I wanted it right.
Took three more trips to the dealer. The last one was in 1992 late in the year when it was cold. I just left it telling them "you won't be able to diagnose it in your shop, you'll have to leave it out in the cold then work on it". The culprit turned out to be a faulty electronic module (ignition module I think). They first replaced it with an "updated" version (identified with different colored marking than the original) and it didn't help. (That particular one turned out to be defective and caused the same problem) Eventually they took one off another bike (that had no cold start issue) and it fired right up with both cylinders. They ordered a second replacement module, which superseded the updated one, and it worked perfectly. It was identified with a third colored marking.
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:55 PM   #8
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Hi Steve,

I have the SAME bike (I bought new in 1992) so we've been togather for awhile. I will give you my 2 cents worth, as to what I would check. If you could check my post "1992 BMW R100GSPD - Need Help!" regarding the engine pins, and if you could check yours and let me know what you find - I would be HUGELY grateful.

Onto your problem, and what I would check/eliminate;

1. Start with FRESH gas. Not stored gas with StaBil or other stabilizing agent in it. Drop the bails on the float bowls and decant the old fuel off.
2. Make sure the vent hose from the Gas Tank that runs on top of the motor is not pinched.
3. Pull the air cleaner and examine. Replace if necessary
4. Set the valves. Rotate the crank (plugs out, put bike in 5th gear, and rotate to TDC and recheck them. Still okay?)
5. You cleaned the carbs with "nasty stuff". Did you remove the floats first? Have you damaged the floats with the carb cleaner? (Need to ask) Wouldn't hurt to replace the diaphrams and give them a complete cleaning (take them off the bike, order a rebuild kit, and rebuild one carb at a time)
6. When you have the bike running, assuming you have done the above, take it for a good 10km + ride get it really warm and sync the carbs. I have two fans set up on the driveway when I do this, and don't even shut off the bike, but position the fans one on each cylinder, and check the vacuum from the ports on the bottom of each BING. Many use Mercury Stix (these work just fine). I use an Electronic balancer I bought from the BING Agency that works very nicely. These carbs are extremely sensitive to adjustment at the knurled adjuster/10mm nut on top of each carb. Use one carb as a base line and balance the other carb to it. Blip the throttle a few times and let the idle settle and recheck the balance.
7. Should have mentioned earlier....check the rubber manifolds from the carbs to the cylinders. Any cracks? Questionable? A leak here can cause issues.
8. While you are at it, pull the battery ground off the back of the transmission and inspect. Give it a light sand and reinstall it. Make sure it is snug.

Thats all I can think of right now.....

Let us know how you make out.
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:11 PM   #9
supershaft
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridewv View Post
Steve, like yours, my new 1991 R100GS sometimes started on one cylinder only, then the other cylinder would begin. Dealer mechanics adjusted throttle cables, choke cables, and it started up perfectly so off I went. The bike was kept in a heated garage so it didn't happen often. But starting it outside after it had cooled down, in cold weather is when it did its "start and run on one cylinder" deal. It usually would stall and I'd have to re-start it where it did the same thing again. After a few starts the second cylinder would finally kick in and all was normal..... until the next cold start. I could probably have lived with it but it was under warranty so I wanted it right.
Took three more trips to the dealer. The last one was in 1992 late in the year when it was cold. I just left it telling them "you won't be able to diagnose it in your shop, you'll have to leave it out in the cold then work on it". The culprit turned out to be a faulty electronic module (ignition module I think). They first replaced it with an "updated" version (identified with different colored marking than the original) and it didn't help. (That particular one turned out to be defective and caused the same problem) Eventually they took one off another bike (that had no cold start issue) and it fired right up with both cylinders. They ordered a second replacement module, which superseded the updated one, and it worked perfectly. It was identified with a third colored marking.
There is a service bulletin about that. I have never seen it play out and I have fixed probably about six or seven bikes having the exact same issues buy replacing the worn out jet needles. I just figured they got it wrong but maybe not. My advise would be to check the jet needles first. It's easy to do and an cheap fix if that is it.
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Old 03-09-2011, 06:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridewv View Post
They first replaced it with an "updated" version (identified with different colored marking than the original) and it didn't help. It was identified with a third colored marking.
According to Oak the ICU's that were defective had white or pink lettering, the newest and "fixed" version had turquoise lettering.
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:10 PM   #11
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That's in the service bulletins too. I think it is a bit misleading in that not all white and pink lettered ICU's are defective UNLESS you have the later (non crack-0-matic) coil. Then you need a torques ICU for sure. The lower primary resistance of the later coil will lunch the earlier ICU's on a semi regular basis. Bean cans too I believe. It takes 5 or 10k miles but it can happen.
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:22 PM   #12
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Before you go into diagnosis mode try cracking the throttle a bit before pushing the start button. Makes a world of difference doing this with my G/S, only took me about 3 years to figure this out.
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:21 PM   #13
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You should let the carbs "soak" for a minute or so after turning the petcocks on before hitting the starter...seems to help.
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Old 03-10-2011, 02:13 AM   #14
Steve_Col OP
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Awesome replies - Thnx all - working 12 hours days now

Sadly I am back at work - 12 hour days
At least I will be able to afford some Lovin' for this sweet machine

I will get back to yo'all...

Reminds me of an 860 Ducati I owned in the late 70's. (no electric start)

In my 1st months riding her to work - I would get out in the morning 20 mins before I needed to leave.... and kick kick kick kick "Cough" kick kick Kick KICK "COUGH! kick ... and kick kick kick kick "Cough" kick... and kick kick kick kick "Cough" kick... and kick kick kick kick "Cough" kick

(Yu get the sad Idea)

Eventually she'd burst into life with the most joyous sound mechanically ever made.

One day - after another long, tiring tedious session of :

kick kick kick "Cough" kick kick Kick KICK "COUGH! kick ... and kick kick kick kick "Cough" kick... and kick kick kick kick "Cough" kick...

an old man appeared in my yard. He politely noted that he'd heard the trouble I'd been having over the past weeks. He said he'd owned a similiar Duke for some years and asked "did I want him to show me how to start it?"


DId Nit I!

He said " Do this same process every time"
(Never vary the routine)

1. Swish tank & check for sound of fuel
2. place on centre stand.

3. check kill switch - ON
2. Check petrol cocks - ON
4. turn ignition ON - check for ignition light

5. Stand on right hand side of bike
- use right foot to find Top dead-centre :
then add 1/4 of a turn of that crank

6. Use choke if motor 'cold' - NO choke if motor 'hot'
(do not attempt any 'luke-warm' starts)
6. Twist throttle grip once - ONE QUARTER turn only.

then

Jump on that kick start and she will fire on up!

each time - every time.

I loved that machine from that day onward.

.
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Old 03-10-2011, 03:55 AM   #15
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Thats about how I kick start the g/s...minus the kicking...more of a forceful push. A kick would bend the shaft.
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