OSM Openstreetmap tagging ADV tracks.

[Myway]

In OSM Openstreetmap

There two types of Adventure riders:
a. The tarmac types, there are many GPS maps en routing programs.

b. The unpaved types, from gravel to trails, depending on the characteristic off your bike.

Let talk about the unpaved types.

Why discuss it here and not in a OSM forum.
There is not such a motorcycle unpaved based thread there.
Here are the unpaved adventure bikers. So more can be reached.
How they think about it.
Later on maybe a OSM forum........................



First, what name is appropriat to our kind off riding?

What is suitable for all characteristic unpaved motorcycles

I thought:


Allroad = Allroad motorriding.


Is this a name that can be used in the whole world? So that everyone understand in a blink, what it is.

Allroad could be used also for cars. Less scale.


There lost of names:
Mountain motorbiking
Off road
Enduro
Trail motorriding
How do you call you type off riding?

I see this as sub categories, and the scale: of classifying the level of difficulty of using a track, give what characteristic you can drive on it.

How do we tag this in OSM?
Which other tags do we give to the unpaved.
example:
highway=track
highway=path

There is a tag motorcycle=yes, but that is more based on a streetbike.
How do we make that someone on a streetbike do not use a trail and you can route about it.

The combinatie off tags and stylesheet in a routeprogram, gives you a the possiblility to make a track.
Unfortunately there not any route programs for the unpaved types, yet.
Could not find a osm based program.

How to give status off adventure level to a trail.

Mountainbike example:
MTB has special map and tags, Openmtbmap ,
MTB scale

OSM has a open structure, anyone can make and change relations.
When walkers tag, they tag mostly as a walker, by tagging we must tag so that the other walky tagger has no need to change the tag.
Because it is also tagged right for them.

Your turn.

[dvwalker]

across the pond here, I think of these reference points for go anywhere type tracks.

dualsportBIG (aka GS style bikes >400lbs or 180kg)
dualsportSMALL

[Myway]

Nobody else has some thoughts?

OSM doesn't live in ADV world?

[Myway]

Originally Posted by dvwalker

across the pond here, I think of these reference points for go anywhere type tracks.

dualsportBIG (aka GS style bikes >400lbs or 180kg)
dualsportSMALL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-sport_motorcycle

OK

DS

motorcycle

[dvwalker]

so the author of that wiki uses three classifications using weight.

lightweight DS
middleweight DS
heavyweight DS

[DRTBYK]

I think it would be better to have just two classifications of Dual Sport tracks. To many classifications for one type of activity and map makers may miss the point: Can a BIG DS bike travel on this road?

Cheers,

[classyd]

I would be more than happy to participate in this effort, but so far I still have to find a painless way to keep my OSM maps up to date. Any suggestions?

Originally Posted by Myway

In OSM Openstreetmap

There two types of Adventure riders:
a. The tarmac types, there are many GPS maps en routing programs.

b. The unpaved types, from gravel to trails, depending on the characteristic off your bike.

Let talk about the unpaved types.

Why discuss it here and not in a OSM forum.
There is not such a motorcycle unpaved based thread there.
Here are the unpaved adventure bikers. So more can be reached.
How they think about it.
Later on maybe a OSM forum........................



First, what name is appropriat to our kind off riding?

What is suitable for all characteristic unpaved motorcycles

I thought:


Allroad = Allroad motorriding.


Is this a name that can be used in the whole world? So that everyone understand in a blink, what it is.

Allroad could be used also for cars. Less scale.


There lost of names:
Mountain motorbiking
Off road
Enduro
Trail motorriding
How do you call you type off riding?

I see this as sub categories, and the scale: of classifying the level of difficulty of using a track, give what characteristic you can drive on it.

How do we tag this in OSM?
Which other tags do we give to the unpaved.
example:
highway=track
highway=path

There is a tag motorcycle=yes, but that is more based on a streetbike.
How do we make that someone on a streetbike do not use a trail and you can route about it.

The combinatie off tags and stylesheet in a routeprogram, gives you a the possiblility to make a track.
Unfortunately there not any route programs for the unpaved types, yet.
Could not find a osm based program.

How to give status off adventure level to a trail.

Mountainbike example:
MTB has special map and tags, Openmtbmap ,
MTB scale

OSM has a open structure, anyone can make and change relations.
When walkers tag, they tag mostly as a walker, by tagging we must tag so that the other walky tagger has no need to change the tag.
Because it is also tagged right for them.

Your turn.

[Myway]

Originally Posted by classyd

I would be more than happy to participate in this effort, but so far I still have to find a painless way to keep my OSM maps up to date. Any suggestions?

Up to date:

What does that mean.

1. All ways, up to date, unfortunatly, this is not so, most highway=track highway=path are missing, the OSM community, we all DS riders, have to do that ourself. We are using this roads mostly as a driver and have more need for a routing program ( have to be developed ) over these roads. In a program like JOSM we can import our .gpx file, then draw the line and give the tag. (Sign in, in OSM)

2. The map with our latest date drawing. Either you can select a area, or a pre-choosed area. From the site. (On regular basis updated)


Use firefox etc. http://garmin.na1400.info/routable.php
You get a mail when the map is standing by for download, this can be a few hour or several days.


Raw data

http://download.geofabrik.de/osm/
Or
http://downloads.cloudmade.com/

But all mappers use stylesheets, so they choose what we can see on these maps.

Compare with the http://www.openstreetmap.org/

[JoukeHofman]

Over the past few months I've been working on just this idea.

I have created a map on wich all legal tracks and paths are highlighted.Since I live in the Netherlands, its focused on that area (Belgium, The Netherlands and Luxembourgh). I have also added a routing engine wich prefers dirtroads, so making a route is really easy. The route can be exported as a GPX file. Have a look on http://www.allroadmap.nl

With this same idea I have created a garmin-map, wich installs directly in Mapsource (Belgium, The Netherlands and Luxembourgh only). You can have a look at: http://data.allroadmap.nl/8jul2011.exe


It would be really easy to expand the site to include other area's of the world.

[[TASF]Overkill]

I am converting my maps over to OSM.

In the U.S., "dualsport" generally covers the on and offroad motorcycling world. But trails that aren't roads are simply offroad trails. I would suggest doing something similar to what the mountain bicycle riders do.

dirtbike:scale=
0-10

Perhaps use this as a standard scale:
http://dirtbiketrailsidaho.com/difficultystandard.aspx

I ride a KLR 650. Based on that scale, I would probably not attempt anything beyond Level 7 or 8. I don't think the size of the bike changes the conditions of the trail. The size of the bike also has nothing to do with the rider. Make it not relative. Make it absolute. Describe the trail conditions, not the riders you expect to see on it.

What say ye?

[classyd]

Makes sense to me...

Originally Posted by [TASF]Overkill

I am converting my maps over to OSM.

In the U.S., "dualsport" generally covers the on and offroad motorcycling world. But trails that aren't roads are simply offroad trails. I would suggest doing something similar to what the mountain bicycle riders do.

dirtbike:scale=
0-10

Perhaps use this as a standard scale:
http://dirtbiketrailsidaho.com/difficultystandard.aspx

I ride a KLR 650. Based on the mountain bike scale, I would probably not attempt anything beyond Level 2. I don't think the size of the bike changes the conditions of the trail. The size of the bike also has nothing to do with the rider. Make it not relative. Make it absolute. Describe the trail conditions, not the riders you expect to see on it.

What say ye?

[[TASF]Overkill]

Ha, whoops. I changed scales in mid typing. On my KLR, I wouldn't ride anything beyond a level of 7 or 8.

The hard part is the scale... Is there anything ADVers accept as a fairly universal standard? The one I linked makes too much reference to local trails as examples in lieu of explaining them.

[Myway]

Example of outdoor map from osmdata, where tracks is more visible.
It does not say anything about access rights and level of use.

Not al lot is tagged that way.

http://www.4umaps.eu/4umap.htm?zoom=...77925&layers=B

[[TASF]Overkill]

OSM focuses on storing the data. Some intrepid ADV programmer could come along and write the map viewer specifically for the off road trails, color coding them appropriatel based on skill level or whatever. That's a whole separate issue. We're talking about how to best record the data.

The OSM map viewer isn't currently well-suited for the specific task of visualizing offroad trail data, even though the data is stored there:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38...om=16&layers=M

Given that these two trails have the "dirtbike:scale=" tag, in the appropriate viewer they could be represented with colors or something: (Note that this link is my "old way" of doing things, which relied less on data describing the way, but just on formatting I manually applied)
http://www.mappingsupport.com/p/gmap...l=off&skin=off

First, let's work on getting the data for our trails into the maps. I plan on making sure I include seasonal notations in the standard way as well. Once there is sufficient data there, someone may build a specific viewer (I am going to contact the owner of the DualSportMaps.com and see about getting him hooked into OSM) which will open up a GREAT way of viewing trails, and potentially more advanced routing for planning spontaneous trips.

[[TASF]Overkill]

I'm working on an OSM layer specifically for ADVRiders.

http://tyler.schwend.us/maps/ds_style.png

See this thread:
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18906278