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Old 03-30-2011, 06:11 PM   #16
farqhuar
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Originally Posted by btcn View Post
I hate this optimistic stuff. I find that some of the older Japanese bikes have more accurate speedos than the new stuff.
Historically Japanese bikes have always been set up to read optimistically - go read a few bike mags from the 70s - they always had a column in their data sheets showing actual vs. true readings.

The reason you may think they were more accurate is because the newer modern tyres you will be running on your old bike are taller than the original tyres, thus compensating for the built in speedo (but not odo) optimism.

You wil find that just about every bike reads 10% high, and every Japanese car aroudn 5% high. However, I have had a couple of exceptions including one bike from the '80s reading 16% high and another from the '90s at 14% high.
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Old 03-30-2011, 06:51 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by farqhuar View Post
Historically Japanese bikes have always been set up to read optimistically - go read a few bike mags from the 70s - they always had a column in their data sheets showing actual vs. true readings.

The reason you may think they were more accurate is because the newer modern tyres you will be running on your old bike are taller than the original tyres, thus compensating for the built in speedo (but not odo) optimism.

You wil find that just about every bike reads 10% high, and every Japanese car aroudn 5% high. However, I have had a couple of exceptions including one bike from the '80s reading 16% high and another from the '90s at 14% high.
16%? Thats WAY to high, no excuses for that!

I guess your right. I don't think my Elite 150s tires are any bigger than original though, or at least by much.
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Old 04-01-2011, 06:31 AM   #18
ElusivePedro
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Burgman 650's don't take kindly to power braking. My '04 didn't anyway, and given that, I have never done it on my '08. Just sayin... Also, in so far as top speed is concerned, about 103-105 true mph is about what your looking at, at sea level, 70* temps and a 200# rider. That would be 113-116 indicated. Big burgers are the real deal. Now lets not go and tell anyone - Let's keep it "our little secret" :-) I'll probably get my fourth one in the not too distant future after I sell this one. I'd keep her if I had a bigger garage...
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Old 04-01-2011, 11:14 PM   #19
btcn
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Originally Posted by Pete_Court View Post
Burgman 650's don't take kindly to power braking. My '04 didn't anyway, and given that, I have never done it on my '08. Just sayin... Also, in so far as top speed is concerned, about 103-105 true mph is about what your looking at, at sea level, 70* temps and a 200# rider. That would be 113-116 indicated. Big burgers are the real deal. Now lets not go and tell anyone - Let's keep it "our little secret" :-) I'll probably get my fourth one in the not too distant future after I sell this one. I'd keep her if I had a bigger garage...

Not bad, but 103-105 MPH really isn't impressive for a 650 cc twin cylinder engine. A little Ninja 250 will hit those speeds.

But its just fine for the intention of the scoot.
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Old 04-02-2011, 01:00 PM   #20
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Not bad, but 103-105 MPH really isn't impressive for a 650 cc twin cylinder engine.
Yeah, I don't think that there has ever been a suggestion that a scooter's speed would be impressive for its engine size. If you want a bike around that size with an impressive top speed then there is the GSX-R600 or R6 or ZXR-6 or CBR-600RR. None of those will be as comfortable though or have as much storage space.

If we are talking about riding on the road rather than the race track then over 100 MPH should be plenty. Where I live the limit is 60, after 70 you are risking a ticket and if caught at over 90 you are looking at an instant 28 day loss of license - a scooter that can cruise all day long at 70 and still have spare for overtaking would be more than enough on our roads.

My 400 can go to ~90 on the flat - but the acceleration is running out once you are above 75, I wouldn't mind a 650 for the ability to still have good acceleration though to 90 - that would be enough for my needs. So I don't need any more speed than what I have, but a bigger engine means I'd have more acceleration at the top end of the speeds that I would use. In slower speeds around the city I'm probably on the better scooter, but on the open road a better 60 to 80 MPH acceleration time would be nice.
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Old 04-03-2011, 12:08 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by MarkH67 View Post
Yeah, I don't think that there has ever been a suggestion that a scooter's speed would be impressive for its engine size. If you want a bike around that size with an impressive top speed then there is the GSX-R600 or R6 or ZXR-6 or CBR-600RR. None of those will be as comfortable though or have as much storage space.

If we are talking about riding on the road rather than the race track then over 100 MPH should be plenty. Where I live the limit is 60, after 70 you are risking a ticket and if caught at over 90 you are looking at an instant 28 day loss of license - a scooter that can cruise all day long at 70 and still have spare for overtaking would be more than enough on our roads.

My 400 can go to ~90 on the flat - but the acceleration is running out once you are above 75, I wouldn't mind a 650 for the ability to still have good acceleration though to 90 - that would be enough for my needs. So I don't need any more speed than what I have, but a bigger engine means I'd have more acceleration at the top end of the speeds that I would use. In slower speeds around the city I'm probably on the better scooter, but on the open road a better 60 to 80 MPH acceleration time would be nice.

Yes I agree. I am not into Sport bikes too much myself. Too uncomfortable and unnecessary power. All the cruisers I've ridden with a 100+ MPH top speed have been more than enough. I was just noting that its not real fast for a parallel twin, which usually revv to the moon. But yes its PLENTY.
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Old 04-03-2011, 02:54 AM   #22
vortexau
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Hmmm! I take note that most 50cc Two-Stroke scooters are not particularly fast . . . . for a 50cc Two-Stroke!
Lets go back to what was possible 40 years ago. Since then we'd had Forty Years of engine development.

(But don't neglect the saying: Horses for courses.)


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1971 Kreidler 50cc racing machine based on the Van Veen world championship winning machine. The specification is: size – 50cc s/c water cooled disc valve induction 6 speed gearbox dry clutch max revs are 16,000, b.h.p. - around 18, max speed – 110 to 120mph
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  • Engine Size: 49.00 ccm (2,98 cubic inches)
  • Engine Type: Single cylinder
  • Engine Horsepower: 4.02 HP (2.9 kW
  • Compression Rates: N/A
  • Stroke: 2
  • Torque: N/A
  • Starter Type: Electric and kick
  • Top Speed: 80.0 km/h (49,45 mph)
Lets compare today's Suzuki Burgman AN650 to the 1960s Triumph Bonneville T120. Still, with allowing for a weight penalty of 68 kg, (60s Triumph Bonneville -175 kg, 2006 Suzuki Burgman AN650 - 238 kg) I consider the Burg to have performance just a tad shaded by the Bonneville. There is the Bonne's T120 tag which is meant to declare that the Triumph can get to 120mph but that would be under optimal conditions.

The engine in the Suzuki is not really tuned for performance; more for plain pulling torque. This is why the Burg makes such a good sidecar tug.
If you really want to experience a somewhat anemic 650cc machine, why not try out a Yamaha V-Star XVS650A?
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Old 04-03-2011, 09:05 AM   #23
scooterspirit
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Great, now I gotta get one of these! Actually, I was thinking this is one of the only bikes I could get my wife on, for more than an hour. I would like to hear about anyone's two up or with spouse experiences. Is this a good bike to get newbies into riding, or pick up/drop offs for kids?

How is the wind for the pillion? My wife doesn't like wind, hehehe.
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Old 04-03-2011, 09:11 AM   #24
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There is a shop, not too far from here, that is selling a new Burgman 650 for $5,500. But machines on CL are more like $6K for 7-14K mile two year old machines. Some are executives, but I don't really care about that stuff. People say these are 7-10K new.
Do you think the 5,500 dollar price for the new one is a good price?
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Old 04-03-2011, 09:11 AM   #25
btcn
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Originally Posted by vortexau View Post
Hmmm! I take note that most 50cc Two-Stroke scooters are not particularly fast . . . . for a 50cc Two-Stroke!
Lets go back to what was possible 40 years ago. Since then we'd had Forty Years of engine development.

(But don't neglect the saying: Horses for courses.)


1971 Kreidler 50cc Race replica

Kreidler history


2008 Kreidler Florett RMC-G50 Race scooter

Lets compare today's Suzuki Burgman AN650 to the 1960s Triumph Bonneville T120. Still, with allowing for a weight penalty of 68 kg, (60s Triumph Bonneville -175 kg, 2006 Suzuki Burgman AN650 - 238 kg) I consider the Burg to have performance just a tad shaded by the Bonneville. There is the Bonne's T120 tag which is meant to declare that the Triumph can get to 120mph but that would be under optimal conditions.

The engine in the Suzuki is not really tuned for performance; more for plain pulling torque. This is why the Burg makes such a good sidecar tug.
If you really want to experience a somewhat anemic 650cc machine, why not try out a Yamaha V-Star XVS650A?

Yea I am see why they are not too high performance. The acceleration on the 650 is more than enough, and top speed is perfect for most. I just thought it would have a little more top end, you know having a parallel twin engine! Those usually rev like crazy, I know the old CBs would run like 7,000 RPM at 70 MPH comfortably. The CB 350 had decent power for it's displacement as well. But I guess it just isn't tuned to HP.

But its fine, Especially for me. I have always personally liked cruisers, so I obviously don't care for performance much! Hell, Harleys with the 96 inch+ V Twins top out at like 110 MPH, and thats like 1584 cc! So they are obviously built for torque, but they are great bikes!

There are some that just care about the adrenaline of the ride. The Burgman isn't meant for these people, its meant for people coming from either smaller scooters who still want automatics and scooter conveniences but have the power of a bigger bike, or people who are too old or have medical conditions for their big bikes.

The Burgman isn't real powerful or fast, but its got plenty of power for it's intention.


But I will say most scooters are quite slow for their size. Most 250 cc scooters won't exceed 75-80 MPH actual, while even the 234 cc Rebel can exceed these speeds. And the Ninja 250 will exceed 100 MPH.

Although scooters do great for their intention, wouldn't it be damn cool to have a real performance intended scooter? A scooter with the twin Ninja 250 engine! It'll never happen, but it I'd like it! The Ninja 250 engine wouldn't take efficiency much, it still gets 70+ MPG.
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Old 04-03-2011, 09:14 AM   #26
btcn
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Originally Posted by scooterspirit View Post
There is a shop, not too far from here, that is selling a new Burgman 650 for $5,500. But machines on CL are more like $6K for 7-14K mile two year old machines. Some are executives, but I don't really care about that stuff. People say these are 7-10K new.
Do you think the 5,500 dollar price for the new one is a good price?

Thats a great price! The regular Burgman retails by Suzuki for $8,699, and Suzuki is giving $1,000 off on this model currently so $7,699. SO I'd say $5,500 for a 650 is a GREAT deal!
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:42 PM   #27
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My dealer up here in the snowy (still) north, wants 11,300$ for a new 650 Burger. They moan and bitch when we shop in the States?
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:44 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by scooterspirit View Post
Great . . . I was thinking this is one of the only bikes I could get my wife on, for more than an hour. I would like to hear about anyone's two up or with spouse experiences. Is this a good bike to get newbies into riding, or pick up/drop offs for kids?
I would rate the Burg 650 (along with the Silverwing 600) as one of the BEST pillion-carrying scooter-shaped motorcycles. To get superior passenger comfort, you'd be looking for a GL1200-1800, a 'glide, one of the other mammoth-engined Jap Tourers, or maybe a touring Triumph Rocket III. I don't know how good the rear seat is on the ST1300!?! so we'll leave that as a maybe.

About the only major gripe is that some passengers find it a challenge to reach the pillion footrests. This is because the body panels push mid-legs outwards, and the footrests are slightly tucked in under.

For someone NEW to being carried on the back seat- its one of the best! Plenty of room and a wide seat (compare this against those unlikely cruiser Gunfighter seats, and the miniscule humpy sportsbike rears) . . . good grab handles for the passenger . . . a backrest on the Exec (I'm told a backrest is a $411 option on a Burgman 400) . . and, because the Burger mounts its engine well forward, the weight of the passenger upsets the machine less than do passengers on swing-engined scooters!

Quote:
How is the wind for the pillion? My wife doesn't like wind, hehehe.
Depends on screen. With my stock screen the pressure sometimes hits from behind, and can puff-out a loose riding jacket at the front. I do find the Exec's powered screen great -- being able to lower it at suburban speeds, and in car parks, which lessens the risk of head-butting the perspex!

Hmmm! Three compartments for glove boxes. You may have to let your passenger have the use of one or two of these. I find an outside glovebox good for my rain-proof trousers. It could well be that having a pillion 40% of the time you'd be wanting an add-on topbox. The extra space is good when you're shuffling luggage about.


(Photo found on the web.) NB. My riding weather is less cold! Topcase can add another 20-litre capacity to the 56-litre under-seat storage.

I suspect that having a topcase aids the airflow . . . giving a tip for the air to flow past; rather than just double back. Take note that a topbox can affect pillion egress, and make it more difficult to thrust their right leg over.
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:55 PM   #29
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My dealer up here in the snowy (still) north, wants 11,300$ for a new 650 Burger. They moan and bitch when we shop in the States?
Lyle
Think yourself fortunate. Current Australian prices for 2011 Burgman Execs run between $12,499AUD and $13,290AUD. It is only the Exec 650 that Suzuki Au sells.

Our ULP is nudging $1.49 per litre. It can cost me $15 to fill-up the Exec, and I do it when the single block in the gauge is blinking.
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Old 04-06-2011, 12:05 AM   #30
techguy
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How does the 400 compare to the 650 for filtering and pillion comfort?
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