ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Layin' down tracks > GPS 101 - Which GPS For Me
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 01-08-2014, 03:09 PM   #1
Colorado Uli OP
Motociclista Non Elegante
 
Colorado Uli's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: Riding Paradise - Grand Junction
Oddometer: 2,535
What do you want in a newly designed GPS?

Got your attention? Good!

So here's the story then.
I have a friend who works for a company doing market research on a bike-mounted GPS unit. He, like myself, rides dual sport and is not among the gifted when it comes to GPS technology and thus prefers, again like myself, things that are more intuitive and less ... complicated to use. So he is asking fellow riders for input in what we might need and/or want in a GPS that is possibly not available to us currently.

A few things to contemplate:
- GPS should appeal to both the racing/competition crowd (smaller market, I know) AND the average weekend rec rider like most of us.
- Unit should also appeal to ATV and side-by-side users where there is a very large market
- Price would preferably be held down to the $400-$500 range

So far he has collected input from a local racer who has given him very valuable input into what he'd like to see, such as remote thumb control, external antenna, etc.
I, too, have given him some inputs. Here's what I've come up with so far:
- Free maps! My beloved Gaia GPS all on my iPhone does this easily, a dedicated GPS unit should as well. (He'll have to figure out how the technology for that will work)
- The ability to use and treat all sorts of file formats with equal ease such as kmz, kml, gpx, routes and tracks. Again, my $20 Gaia app does this perfect but my $700 Garmin Zumo 550 does not (as a matter of fact, the Zumo is comparatively very difficult to use when held up against Gaia)
- Big buttons are better, for me, than a touch screen (the Zumo cured me of that). Non-assigned buttons, surrounding the screen, that are used for different functions depending on what screen you are on and are labeled on each screen (think of aviation screens) would be nice and the user would not have to learn about each button but simply follow the on-screen instructions. Keeping it very intuitive and simple.

Please do us a favor and brainstorm and shout out what you'd like to see in a GPS if your were to design it. Let's use this thread as a brainstorming session, so please no attacking each others' ideas.

Thank you very much for your help with this exciting project.
__________________
Something, something, something ... in latin.

"Now with more SE then ever!"
Das KTM520
2004 KTM 625 SXC - Sick. Getting better

Colorado Uli screwed with this post 01-09-2014 at 07:12 AM
Colorado Uli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 09:09 AM   #2
TRZ Charlie
That's MR. Asshole
 
TRZ Charlie's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Fayetteville, AR
Oddometer: 14,652
1. The ability to import/export tracks AND routes
2. A screen comparable in brightness and readability to the new Earl tablet or the old Garmin GPSmap series 276 et al.
3. Ability to install Android GPS Apps
4. Allow for map layering
5. Cheap or no cost ROUTABLE base map
6. Ability to plan routes and tracks and import them to the unit
7. Make the unit screen at least as big as the Garmin Montana
8. Friendly interface
9. Both Buttons AND/OR the ability to enable a touch screen to navigate
10. Not dumbed down to the point where it is useless off road
11. NO auto-recalculations of imported tracks/routes unless you authorize the unit to do it (This should have been number 1).
12. Bluetooth interface for use with helmet communicators
13. Wifi hotspot built in for sharing routes and tracks with like units on the fly
14. AMPS holder mounted with "power in" integrated when the unit is snapped into place
15. Ability to have user settings to keep the unit enabled or disabled when the bikes key is turned off/on.
16. Track recording
17. Turn by turn voice guidance via bluetooth.
18. Programmable/assignable buttons for common use functions specific to the units owner.

TRZ Charlie screwed with this post 01-09-2014 at 09:16 AM
TRZ Charlie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 10:11 AM   #3
worwig
Lost in Georgia
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Oddometer: 960
I need a case with a charger and glove friendly bluetooth scroll buttons. The case would make a smartphone water resistant and maybe a sunshield. It would use a RAM mount. Maybe a way to use the camera while in the case.

I don't need yet another GPS that needs me to invest in yet more maps and yet more cables and more ways to do things. I just want to enhance what already works very well. Heck, my smartphone has GPS plus Glonass systems integrated, making the location more accurate and reliable than most any GPS on the market.

So if someone is wanting to design something, THAT would be a product that I would be interested in.
__________________
Hog mountain Weather
worwig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 12:02 PM   #4
NorthernTraveler
Long time Adventurer
 
NorthernTraveler's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: The Big Mitten
Oddometer: 401
Gps wish list

Humm... here's my thoughts -

1. Common maps - OSM maps might work - or some way for users to build maps for it similar to what's happening at GPSfiledepot
2. Common memory cards for expansion - SD or micro SD
3. Map layering that allows you to set map display priority
4. An easy way to build a custom map overlay - similar to what you can do for Garmin with IMGfromGPX
5. Lots of tracks with lots of points per track and overall lots of total track points.
6. BUTTONS!!!!!! Touch screen is not good in hard environments.
7. Waterproof/weatherproof tough rugged case.
8. Large, bright, easy to see in direct sunlight screen
9. An easy way to set map detail level at various zoom levels.
10. Robust power connection with user settable actions when the power goes down.
11. Non auto recalc of routes, or user settable
12. Lots of waypoints and something similar to POI's in the Garmin world
13. GPX file format for interchange of waypoints, tracks, routes.
14. Both routeable routes and direct routes.
15. MP3
16. Bluetooth

I'm sure there's more, this is a start!
NorthernTraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 01:03 PM   #5
XRman
Beastly Adventurer
 
XRman's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: SW Victoria
Oddometer: 2,516
tell me more

NT please expand on point 4.
XRman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 02:25 PM   #6
TRZ Charlie
That's MR. Asshole
 
TRZ Charlie's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Fayetteville, AR
Oddometer: 14,652
I think he means he wants to be able to place overlays on the maps?
TRZ Charlie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 02:25 PM   #7
NorthernTraveler
Long time Adventurer
 
NorthernTraveler's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: The Big Mitten
Oddometer: 401
Custom map overlays

In the Garmin world there is easy to use software that allows you to make a 'map' that is an overlay (shows up over other maps, still can see the other maps behind it).

One such software is IMGfromGPX.

When you build such a map using that software, you copy over a GPX file or GDB file containing tracks (or routes, but less predictable)... as many tracks and as long of tracks as you would like.... or waypoints (must be in separate file from tracks, and a separate file for each waypoint symbol). Give the new map a name for on the computer and a name for on the GPS unit, give it a unique Map ID number, then tell it to compile the map.

You then build a map set (or add it to your existing maps) that also contains this new map. In fact, you can create multiple map overlays, each with their own name/ID. Load the combined maps on the GPS unit.

In the GPS you can now turn on/off these overlays just like you do any other map.

As an example I built a map overlay of the Continental Divide route from Countdown using 15 tracks of 2000 points each. Each track can have it's own color when created in the GPX or GBD file. This map doesn't use up any waypoints, tracks or routes within the GPS - it's a map, remember? - and as a map only takes up around 300kb. Tiny!

I also built a map overlay of the TAT, PCQ, CDR, SOR, TET/TET-s, TCAT, and my unreleased Northern Route... all of these combined took up just under 2.5mb... all with full resolution of the tracks on the screen, each track labeled, etc.

Another overlay I built is all the publicly owned campgrounds in the US... 11269 unique waypoints, each with name and phone number, this overlay is just under 2mb. Searchable using the 'Find' button on my GPS. Canada is 1055 waypoints, 334kb.

So, I load US campgrounds, Canadian campgrounds, CDR, TET, TAT, SOR overlays along with base maps in the same map load for my GPS. Turn on what I need to see now, turn off what I don't need to see. Update individual overlays as needed and as new data becomes available.

By the way, this also works for NUVI's that don't do tracks or routes or waypoints... just check out what colors show up at what zoom levels.
NorthernTraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 06:25 PM   #8
Colorado Uli OP
Motociclista Non Elegante
 
Colorado Uli's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: Riding Paradise - Grand Junction
Oddometer: 2,535
DRZ Charlie, Worwig, and NT, thank you so much for getting us started.

When I started reading Charlie's list I immediately though to myself, "Wow, this guy has struggled with the same Zumo 550 as I have and now sees the light by using a GPS app on his phone". Almost all of your points are exactly why I am so passionate about helping out my friend on this quest. Great going!

Worwig, you also echo my sentiments about having to buy expensive maps that in 2014 are free on the internet as soon as I turn on my smartphone. My Gaia app finds a large selection of maps and I - the complete GPS moron - can select and use without ever having to pull out the manual. I have seen that some overseas-available tablet phones (ToughSlate 7) come fully water/dust/shock resistant (even proof in some cases). So the technology to make this kind of case is there, a manufacturing base is already established, and the market ... well, that's where we come in.

Northern Traveler, you too have provided us with some interesting and very valuable input. I especially like your comment about buttons. When riding, the last thing most would want to do is fiddle with buttons that the average human cant push/toggle. Remember, this unit would hopefully be used by ATV/UTV folks as well, so they probably too deal with bouncy conditions. And thank you for the education into layering and how this helps plaster tracks onto a map using a minimal amount of memory. I have never heard of it before. Great food for thought.

It's been a uber-productive first day. Thank you all for your help.
__________________
Something, something, something ... in latin.

"Now with more SE then ever!"
Das KTM520
2004 KTM 625 SXC - Sick. Getting better
Colorado Uli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 07:29 PM   #9
TRZ Charlie
That's MR. Asshole
 
TRZ Charlie's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Fayetteville, AR
Oddometer: 14,652
Colorado Uli, I have been a dedicated Garmin GPSmap 276c user for many years.

It will do a lot of what I described as "wants" it also lacks the flexibility of my Galaxy S3. However, a dedicated GPS is most desirable on a long off road trek and I use the phone with preloaded maps to insure that I have redundancy should my Garmin fail.

The downfall of my phone is that it does tend to overheat in direct sunlight.
TRZ Charlie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2014, 09:47 AM   #10
Albie
Kool Aid poisoner
 
Albie's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: NWA
Oddometer: 8,766
May as well add GLONASS, Galileo, and Beidou receivers as well. Probably wouldn't add much to the price.
__________________
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.

Another day, another foot injury!
Albie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2014, 01:58 PM   #11
TRZ Charlie
That's MR. Asshole
 
TRZ Charlie's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Fayetteville, AR
Oddometer: 14,652
What Albie said
TRZ Charlie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2014, 11:58 AM   #12
clintonroy
Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Location: Timmins ON-Where Tanning Salons Profit in Summer
Oddometer: 65
The only thing I would add to what I saw above would be voice command that works through my headset that I could turn on and off with the touch of a button.
clintonroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2014, 01:24 PM   #13
riverflow
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2013
Location: Danville/Louisville, KY
Oddometer: 483
I don't think it's been mentioned above, so I'll add in that I think a basic remote control (thumbstick for panning the map and a zoom in/out, maybe a couple other functions on it) would be very nice.
__________________
-Tyler
'05 BMW F650 GS Dakar

"There is no such thing as bad weather, only the wrong clothes" ~ Billy Connolly.
riverflow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2014, 10:48 AM   #14
NorthernTraveler
Long time Adventurer
 
NorthernTraveler's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: The Big Mitten
Oddometer: 401
Track transfer behavior

One thing about tracks Garmin has changed in recent years that has really annoyed people.

It used to be that you could turn on/off whether or not an individual track was displayed on the computer and transfer that track to the GPS unit retaining that setting.

In recent years Garmin changed the GPS units to automatically turn individual track display setting to OFF when you loaded the tracks - no matter how it had been set on the computer.

This has been a big problem for event organizers who want to load a set of tracks on a GPS for a participant and just have them ready to go. Now they have to go back into the GPS and turn on each individual track.
NorthernTraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2014, 07:01 PM   #15
Countdown
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Carson City/Ridgecrest
Oddometer: 5,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernTraveler View Post
One thing about tracks Garmin has changed in recent years that has really annoyed people.

It used to be that you could turn on/off whether or not an individual track was displayed on the computer and transfer that track to the GPS unit retaining that setting.

In recent years Garmin changed the GPS units to automatically turn individual track display setting to OFF when you loaded the tracks - no matter how it had been set on the computer.

This has been a big problem for event organizers who want to load a set of tracks on a GPS for a participant and just have them ready to go. Now they have to go back into the GPS and turn on each individual track.
They deleted the box to "Show on Map" in the track properties page years ago, very stupid since it was in the file but you couldn't control it.

I think the problem with the new units is that they only transfer files in true .gpx format which does not have this bit, it is tagged to each track in the GPS by the GPS.
__________________
Jerry Counts
Countdown is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 08:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014