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Old 05-11-2014, 10:22 AM   #1
Quickv4 OP
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Thumbs down Blip...pop...fart- My Moto Guzzi won't start!

Just got my 1970 Ambassador put back together. I gave it the works, new Gilardonis, ALL seals and gaskets replaced. Had it down to the crank. Distributor and generator rebuilt, Dellortos fully torn down and cleaned, and reassembled with proper rebuild kits and float needles.

Went to try to start it for the first time last night. Got a fresh tank full of Shell premium (no ethanol) and poured it in. Pulled open the petcocks, engaged the enricheners, and cranked it over.

And all I could get were just what the thread title says. Blip blip, POP pop, snick snick snick Pop Blip from both cylinders.

First thing I checked was spark.

I checked to see how strong the spark was, pulled plug and cranked. A Huge honkin' FAT blue/white spark. Ok, thats good.

Flipped spark plug leads just in case I accidentally reversed them. All that resulted in was it backfiring out of the intake. Ok, had them right the first time...

Moved the distributor around, both full retard and advance, with no change.


At this point I began to fear that I may have not set the camshaft properly despite my best efforts. I going to push that fear aside for the moment.

Lets start with the easy stuff first thing...

1. Possible tint of bad fuel (tank was mostly empty over the winter, but had a slight trickle left in it)

2. Distributor a tooth off in either direction (can somebody provide me a picture where their Loop's rotor sits when at TDC compression?)

3. Camshaft timing wrong ( oh gosh, I hope I dont have to tear into her again!)



Any thoughts? I can provide pictures if it is needed, no problem.
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Old 05-11-2014, 11:30 AM   #2
England-Kev
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Right lets go through things one at a time...


Make sure that the L/ H cylinder No.2 (when sat on bike) is at T.D.C. on its compression stroke. with both valves closed.


The arrow on the timing case should be oposite the far left notch on the pulley (TDC)

Check that distributor contact gap is 0.42-0.48 mm. (.016-.018) .


Loosen the distributor clamp and Position the contact piece of the rotor to just start to skim the metal sector pertaining to cylinder No.2 in the distributor cap.

when this is correct we shall move to the next phase
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Old 05-11-2014, 01:39 PM   #3
danedg
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My first guess

...is you missed the tooth on the distributor. I missed it as well, but found it when I tried to static time the beasty.
I'll take a picture of the rotor at TDC, but I've got to let her cool off first...
Do you have Guzziology? Richardson's description of how to set the distributor is pretty good, but not foolproof.
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Old 05-11-2014, 01:43 PM   #4
Scudman
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The cam can be set without removal of engine from frame. Just pull the front cover off. Hopefully there is an easier fix. Have you tried squirting a bit of fuel in the carbs?
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Old 05-11-2014, 01:46 PM   #5
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There are multiple positions possible for the timing marks on the front crank pulley too, if you used them. I think a positive confirmation of static timing would be a good first step.
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Old 05-11-2014, 01:47 PM   #6
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On another topic, you may want to consider placing a magnet in the drain plug. You can also use a transmission fill plug from later models. They have the magnet. With no filter the metal shavings go round and around. After you get it started run it for 15-20 minutes then drop the oil pan and look for sparklies. After the run it would be a great time to re torque the heads or your head gaskets will fail.
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Old 05-11-2014, 02:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scudman View Post
On another topic, you may want to consider placing a magnet in the drain plug. You can also use a transmission fill plug from later models. They have the magnet. With no filter the metal shavings go round and around. After you get it started run it for 15-20 minutes then drop the oil pan and look for sparklies. After the run it would be a great time to re torque the heads or your head gaskets will fail.

Funny you mention it, I am in fact running a Greg Bender style homade magnetic drain plug. It consists of JB welding a 1/2 wide cow magnet inside the drain plug. Methinks it should work swell.
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Old 05-11-2014, 02:14 PM   #8
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To reply to y'all

I static timed the beast off of the advice given on thisoldtractor. It was actually quoted from Guzziology. It was something about having the notch starting at 730 and then inserting the dist. And having the notch pointing at 6. I remember me doing that, and double checking multiple times.

I then set the points and final static timing utilizing a multimeter on the points. Set it to the mark just right of the TDC mark on the crank (10* Advance IIRC)


Ill be going out underneath my work-patio to take some pics for youz guyz soon...
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Old 05-11-2014, 02:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F_Sahms View Post
There are multiple positions possible for the timing marks on the front crank pulley too, if you used them. I think a positive confirmation of static timing would be a good first step.
I just pulled the front cover and realized how easy it is to misalign the pulley on the initial setup as well.
I've got some pics downloading now.
For starters, the keyway that holds the front crank hub (see pulley) lines up with left piston at TDC. #2
The far left notch on the rear pulley segment should line up with that keyway.
TDC is when the notch on the pulley lines up the arrow on the timing case cover , which magically lines up with cylinder left. #2
Pop the front 22 mm nut and you'll be able to see the keyway for the crank.
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danedg screwed with this post 05-11-2014 at 04:09 PM
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Old 05-11-2014, 02:47 PM   #10
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Old 05-11-2014, 02:49 PM   #11
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Rotor position TDC




First off, my apologies. As everything works and sets up off that left cylinder I've gotten into the (bad) habit of thinking of it as #1. As Kevin correctly stated, it is the #2 cylinder in the firing order.

Here is the rotor at TDC .
Hope this helps.
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Old 05-11-2014, 02:51 PM   #12
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Sorry danedg, so is that at TDC Compression for the left or right cylinder?

fYI the above pictures are of the left cylinder at top dead center
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Old 05-11-2014, 02:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danedg View Post
I just pulled the front cover and realized how easy it is to misalign the pulley on the initial setup as well.
I've got some pics downloading now.
For starters, the keyway that holds the front crank hub (see pulley) lines up with left piston.
The far left notch on the rear pulley segment should line up with that keyway.
TDC is when the notch on the pulley lines up the arrow on the timing case cover , which magically lines up with cylinder left.
Pop the front 22 mm nut and you'll be able to see the keyway for the crank.
I just checked. the keyway is in fact and aligned with at TDC mark for the left cylinder
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Old 05-11-2014, 03:04 PM   #14
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your dizzy is out, it should be pointing down closer to 7-0clock position for No 2 L/H cylinder as I remember

Number two cylinder L/H is the lower lead on my dizzy cap here...

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Old 05-11-2014, 03:04 PM   #15
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this is TDC Compression for the right-hand cylinder
something doesn't seem right that contact area on the rotor is way far away from the contact in the distributor cap
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