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Old 04-10-2011, 04:30 PM   #1
bbishoppcm OP
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Honda Helix clutch advice

Well, I got my Helix home after paying a fortune for it... turns out, she's gonna need a clutch and belt. I'm considering a Gates Powerlink belt (if I can find a REAL one... all the eBay belts seem too cheap to be genuine), and a Chinese replacement clutch (I imagine these are CFMoto clutches) which sell for around $120 shipped... does anyone have any experience with these clutches? My original Honda clutch only lasted 12,000 miles (and I could realistically get another few thousand out of it), but the shuddering at low speeds drives me nuts.
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Old 04-10-2011, 04:54 PM   #2
Black Sheep Radical
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Have you actually checked the condition of the clutch? If it's shuddering at low speeds it could just be a build up of glaze on the clutch shoes. I had this with my 1990 Helix & it was cured by thrashing it up the motorway for a few miles.

If you do need to replace any clutch parts get genuine Honda stuff. Don't waste your time and money on Chinese tat. Having (briefly) owned a Jonway equipped with the CFMoto Helix clone motor & seen the state of it's innards at 4000 miles old I wouldn't touch anything of theirs ever again.
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Old 04-10-2011, 06:28 PM   #3
fullmetalscooter
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It depends if it s the driven face or the drive face that needs work. Rollers can cause some problems. 25 bucks buys a set. I got my helix clutch and belt http://www.scrappydogscooters.com/CF...led_parts.html
Just over 100 bucks with shipping. You could just buy the clutch shoes for 40 bucks. This tells you how to do rebuild it yourself . It's the same on the elite250 as the helix. http://www.ch250.net/techtips/8.htm
It's up to you to decide if you want clone parts or not. My clutch was china and is still ok. YOu could go with a high end malosi clucth at 200 bucks.
As to the gates 6020 that some people use why bother? You can get a belt made for the helix for the same money. I would replace the rollers at the same time as the clutch.

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Old 04-10-2011, 06:45 PM   #4
HandKPhil
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I'd recommend just replacing the belt first. Spend the dough and get the correct belt (Honda). The shuddering clutch might just be a little grease on the clutch shoes from the last time the variator was serviced. Mine did the exact same thing right after I replaced the rollers and re-greased the variator. Somehow, some way, a little grease made it's way onto the clutch shoes and the clutch shuddered on engagement for a short while.

You could try a couple of gentle "brake torques" to burn the grease off the clutch shoes. Depress the foot brake and hold it down. Rev the engine 'till the clutch engages, and hold the bike in the "friction zone" a few seconds. Ride around a little. Repeat.

My guess is that the shuddering will go away.

Now the condition of your rollers is another matter. Have they been replaced that you know of? If not, the original Honda rollers are like $22.00 Might as well do the rollers and belt at the same time. It's not too big of a job. Let us know how it works out.
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Old 04-11-2011, 06:53 PM   #5
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Don't go with a CF moto clutch! As far as I know, these are pretty low end chinese Helix clones, and wouldn't be worth it. $120 is to much for one. I would first make sure the clutch is bad as others mentioned, and then look for even a used Helix clutch. It may be hard though. Or even get an aftermarket clutch made for the Helix?
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:24 AM   #6
bbishoppcm OP
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I totally get the "you get what you pay for" adage, but money is a concern; a real Honda rebuild will set be back several hundred, and I don't even have the tools to do it properly... quality aftermarket clutches run in the $300 range, and I am already WAY over budget on this thing already. I have not taken the clutch apart yet to inspect the pads/drum, so I'm just looking at my worst-case scenario here. I'm really looking to see if anyone has any experience with the CFmoto clutches specifically; are they anywhere near the original Honda quality, or do they fall apart after a few thousand miles? I mean, not EVERY part on those Chinese bikes is necessarily junk, I know their weaknesses are in plastic components, certain cast alloy parts, carburetors, and paint... but I've heard good things about the CFmoto engines themselves. Honda wants $95 for a belt, and I'm looking more at the $75 range...
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:49 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbishoppcm View Post
I totally get the "you get what you pay for" adage, but money is a concern; a real Honda rebuild will set be back several hundred, and I don't even have the tools to do it properly... quality aftermarket clutches run in the $300 range, and I am already WAY over budget on this thing already. I have not taken the clutch apart yet to inspect the pads/drum, so I'm just looking at my worst-case scenario here. I'm really looking to see if anyone has any experience with the CFmoto clutches specifically; are they anywhere near the original Honda quality, or do they fall apart after a few thousand miles? I mean, not EVERY part on those Chinese bikes is necessarily junk, I know their weaknesses are in plastic components, certain cast alloy parts, carburetors, and paint... but I've heard good things about the CFmoto engines themselves. Honda wants $95 for a belt, and I'm looking more at the $75 range...
I understand. I don't know that much about the CF motos themselves, but I have heard some bad things about them.

MAYBE their clutches are decent though? I mean a scooter clutch is a pretty simple mechanism, could they really screw it up that bad? I'd do a little research, but I guess it could be a possible solution.

Yea looking into the clutch first is a good idea, but these clutches do go now and then.

Wow $95 for a belt from Honda? I bought one for $30 for my Elite 150 and I've put about 5,000 miles on it and its just barley warn. I have my OEM for a spare, but it seems good to me.

Maybe someone here will know CF motos. I know you shouldn't use certain parts from there engines, like mufflers [I hear they restrict top speed to 65 MPH], but the clutch could be okay.
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Old 04-12-2011, 04:12 PM   #8
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If you have the Honda service guide, you can measure each of the individual items and only buy the items you need. 12,000 miles is too soon for a clutch to wear out. I have over 37,000 KM on my P250. 12,000 is the life of a belt.

I guess I will just ask straight out.. why do you think you need a new clutch? This was mine at about 30,000 KM and you can see the original date code on the clutch housing. Are you slipping at speed or just the shuddering. Shuddering is frequently glazed clutch shoes or a dirty bell, based on my experiences. I know I sanded my pads gently and cleaned the clutch bell with brake cleaner and I have had no issues. If you are slipping at speed, first fix is a new belt.




You can try buggy and quad shops for alternative source of clutch and belts.. or an online Honda parts vendor. Race or performance parts can be used.
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Old 04-12-2011, 07:10 PM   #9
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Well, I just checked my clutch (couldn't loosen the nut without an impact gun, so I inspected using a mirror) the shoes still have plenty of meat on them, so I'm going to yank it apart once I have access to an imact gun and sand the pads. It's shuddering at low speeds, and I feel some slippage at driving speed (the belt is glazed and cracked, definitely at the end of its service life). I'll do both at the same time.
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Old 04-12-2011, 07:43 PM   #10
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check out the post about varator tool I posted 2 weeks ago. you don't need an impack if you make the tool
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:20 PM   #11
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If you are only getting into the clutch, you can use an Allen key or short screwdriver and then a piece of wood or a ratchet strap to hold the rear wheel. You move the clutch bell so you see the holes in the clutch body, slip the Allen key throught the bell and into the clutch hole and then use a socket and breaker bar. The key will lock the rear end.
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:33 PM   #12
bbishoppcm OP
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I was able to engage the parking brake to lock the rear wheel, and I noticed as I was moving the breaker bar, the input shaft was literally twisting... so I decided not to use that method. I'll just use an impact gun, which will provide short bursts of force, versus serious twisting motions
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Old 04-13-2011, 08:25 PM   #13
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Impact wrenches have worked great for me. They give you a bunch of short very powerful impacts every second, which will knock the bolt off before the shaft spins.

The cheap ones don't work well though. A good expensive electric one or a pneumatic impact wrench is if you have an air compressor.

You CAN use the other method, but its much easier with an impact wrench.
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Old 04-14-2011, 01:34 PM   #14
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http://www.geocities.jp/cn250fusionstyle/cvt_work2.html \
translate it and it tells you how to do your a total driven and drive face rebuild. Comes with pictures. Fusion is the helix.
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Old 05-07-2011, 03:20 PM   #15
bbishoppcm OP
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Well, I finally did replace my belt; I took the opportunity to clean and inspect my clutch, and found the friction material to be slightly glazed. After de-glazing the pads and replacing the belt, she moves like a new machine! Before this, it would shudder like an earthquake on startup, and slip at higher speeds (I struggled to reach 70 before; now, she'll make it all the way to 73 no problem). I did notice the clutch was thinning, but I should get another season or two out of it.
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