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Old 07-11-2013, 06:18 PM   #436
DRONE OP
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Location: Tacoma, WA-ish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dholaday View Post
DRONE:

Did you ever verify Jay's assertion that that your tilt-control problem truly is electric, not mechanical? Maybe [grasping at straws] whatever is going on there is contributing to your vibration.

More straws - How about your clutch? You changed that out also.

Didn't you say vibration is only in gears 4, 5, 6? That sure sounds like something in the transmission.

Duncan
Tilt--Height of the sidecar suspension using the electric tilt has no effect on the vibrations.

Clutch--I went to a sintered clutch last September and put on 2000 miles last Fall with no vibrations. Wouldn't it be weird if it turned out to be a latent defect in the new clutch?

4-5-6--Yup. Just in 4th, 5th and 6th.
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Old 07-11-2013, 06:26 PM   #437
davebig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRONE View Post
Tilt--Height of the sidecar suspension using the electric tilt has no effect on the vibrations.

Clutch--I went to a sintered clutch last September and put on 2000 miles last Fall with no vibrations. Wouldn't it be weird if it turned out to be a latent defect in the new clutch?

4-5-6--Yup. Just in 4th, 5th and 6th.
As I remember you where talking about a rear tire change and not liking a 175/65 you had on have you changed the rear again ? The Nitto I just took off was much harher than the Blizzak I installed.DB
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Old 07-11-2013, 06:38 PM   #438
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Originally Posted by FR700 View Post
Ok , twenty questions time

Does it vibrate in neutral when you rev the motor at a standstill? As in under no load ?

Silly and cheap things to consider ... loosen the alt' belt and see if it goes away .

Crank end float ( thrust bearings out of spec' ) , cam chain guides/tensioner .

Can not recall if you added a heavy duty clutch ( ceramic * shudder* button clutch ) ? If the clamping pressure has been upped it will load the thrust bearings .
Neutral--No. Only vibrates in 4th, 5th and 6th. And the vibrations are different in each gear.

Loosen the belt--Not sure I understand where you're going with this one. Seems like anything to do with the belt would be consistent in all gears?

The other stuff--if the problem is not the shock I'm gonna sell the outfit this Fall after I get back from the CDT and let some other guy sort it out. I'm not a mechanic and really can't afford to pay somebody to take the motor apart. I'm pretty much tapped out. I don't even know what a thrust bearing is or why clamping pressure loads them. All of that is way over my head. Some BMW mechanic can buy it from me for cheap, fix it over the next weekend, then re-sell it for a profit. Although I might do better parting it out since I've got some decent farkles. Either way I won't have Davebig lecturing me any more.
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Old 07-11-2013, 07:06 PM   #439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRONE View Post
. Either way I won't have Davebig lecturing me any more.
Do I owe you an apology ? it seems to me you referred to me as a bullshit artist and have more of less inferred that I'm a liar,I'll admit to being loud an opinionated.
I am not responsible for how you feel or your behavior.I've found allot of your stuff very helpful and short of driving to Tacoma to fix your rig for you or teach to do maintenance,thankyou for your counsel, and do have a safe trip.DB

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davebig screwed with this post 07-11-2013 at 07:28 PM
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Old 07-11-2013, 08:14 PM   #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRONE View Post
Neutral--No. Only vibrates in 4th, 5th and 6th. And the vibrations are different in each gear.

Loosen the belt--Not sure I understand where you're going with this one. Seems like anything to do with the belt would be consistent in all gears?

What this points to is that the cause is forward of the clutch ... that is if you haven't checked all engine-frame mounting bolts for correct torque . Correct torque and tightening sequence play a critical part for some bikes in eliminating unwanted vibration . If I recall you take the chair off to take the bike to the dealer so maybe something was missed in the tightening procedure when put together last ?

That the vibration alters in different gears is because the engine is seeing a different load under torque due to gearing multiplication combined with torque loading . The higher the gear the more vibration would be my wild ass guess at this point ?

Alternator , was trying to see if the vibrations are emanating from bad bearings/partially seized . Disconnecting the drive to it would show it up fast .

As for thrust bearings , the crank wants to move fore and aft during rotation and the thrust bearings ( which come in different thicknesses and are either part of a main bearing or come as a half moon part or a shim on the back of the crank between the flywheel as on airheads) limit this to a predefined limit set by the engine manufacturer . A heavier clutch clamping force does reduce clutch slip ... but the price/penalty is that those thrust bearings get a higher shock loading when the clutch is fed in . Ceramic button clutches do them no favors at all added into the mix is that the button clutch is more ... um ... brutal ... when it does engage .

Bad cam chain tensioner/guides will also exhibit symptoms of vibrations under certain circumstances . There is a known fix for those regarding oilheads ( g-spot would yield more reading for you ) .







Quote:
Originally Posted by DRONE View Post
The other stuff--if the problem is not the shock I'm gonna sell the outfit this Fall after I get back from the CDT and let some other guy sort it out. I'm not a mechanic and really can't afford to pay somebody to take the motor apart. I'm pretty much tapped out. I don't even know what a thrust bearing is or why clamping pressure loads them. All of that is way over my head. Some BMW mechanic can buy it from me for cheap, fix it over the next weekend, then re-sell it for a profit. Although I might do better parting it out since I've got some decent farkles. Either way I won't have Davebig lecturing me any more.


That would be a pity from my way of thinking but that call is up to you ( selling it ).

Staring over would not guarantee anything other than working on a new outfit .


Have fun and feel free to pm if you have any questions .

.
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Old 07-13-2013, 06:14 PM   #441
pops
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Hi Ned
Have you thought of putting the bike on a dyno?.
When running your bike on a dyno if you still have the vibration it has to be in the driveline .
If there is no vibration on the dyno at least you have eliminated the drive line as the trouble .

My bike still has a vibration in 4th gear at any speed. I started to notice the vibration at around the 35000 km mark.the motor also started to knock when it is hot with the clutch pulled in at around the same time . It has around 75.000km now.
We have put the knock in the motor when hot down to the rear thrust bearing in the motor .When i checked out the new bmw parts , the original rear thrust bearing was discontinued and replaced with a different thrust bearing ?
Last year after i replaced the gearbox , diff , drive shaft all new swing arm and diff bearings , i also put in a ceramic clutch i had made for me at the same time .
Yep the vibration is still there ?.
Our vibration is not like yours as i can only feel it in the feet and butt and it is only there in 4th gear .
I know the frustration of tracking down things like this but keep at it you WILL get there.

All the best Ian
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Old 07-13-2013, 09:31 PM   #442
airspro
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Location: Mid Michigan
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This is a beaut of a bike . Drone thanks for your help getting mine running again .

I just read where you might sell this . Might you just need a rest instead ? This vib problem , wish I could help mate .

Got the tire and it's a keeper , thanks again .

Anyway wishing you the very best .
spro


Quote:
Originally Posted by DRONE View Post
Well, I guess we all deserve at least one "ego" thread here in HACKS. Here's mine. The sun came out today and, even though I'm not finished with the set up yet, I dragged my 1150/Dauntless rig out into the front yard for pics today and decided to post them up.




I got this rig last fall -- a 2004 1150GS Adventure with a DMC M72D sidecar. Spent the winter getting it ready for this summer's riding season (I'm a slow worker.) Between the tug and the tub I got about 70 mods here. My philosophy on farkling is that I want my bikes to perform, but I also want them to clean up nicely.

This is my first sidecar outfit.

Some of these mods cost over $1000 each (car pusher wheel, electric tilt, steering mod), and a bunch of them are so piddling as to hardly deserve mention. But I'm mentioning them anyway. Here goes--


BIKE MODS
ABS-Servo brake modulator removed
Ohlins shocks – front & rear (springs painted matching red)
Centerline 4x15 "car pusher" rear wheel on DMC adapter
Vredstein Snow+ 155/80-R15 rear tire
Heidenau K60 Scout front tire
Lucas Alien front rotors
Ride-On tire sealant – front & rear
DMC lower fork bridge (trail reducer)
Aeroflow Half-Fairing windshield
Corbin heated seat (also have stock red/black seat)
Happy Trail panniers and rack (powdercoated)
BestRest tail rack
Luminics 6000k 55w halogen low beam bulb
Hella Micro DE fog lights w/yellow 55w halogen bulbs
AdvMonster 3-mode 24w off-road LED driving lights (w/fog light cut-off)
VVME HID high beam conversion
Xpel headlight protection film
Signal Minder
Right side turn signals removed
Rugged Roads running light/brake light LED insert
Hella Supertone 2-tone horns w/Eastern Beaver relay kit
Odyssey PC680 battery
Filler neck drilled
Canisterectomy
Beemerboneyard fuel line quick-disconnects
Alternator cover carbon-fiber vinyl dress up
Exhaust headers ceramic coated
Y-pipe replacement for catalytic front muffler
Lowered rear muffler connector
Boosterplug
FZ-1 Fuzeblock
Kaoko throttle lock
HumVee "GS" graphics
Refinished valve covers
Refinished spark plug covers
Refinished front mud guard extension
Wunderlich yoke protector
Crossbar pad
Oversized rear brake pedal (my own lame design)
Creative Cycle Concepts shift lever extension
Fastway Evolution footpegs
Billet oil filler cap
Fenda Extenda
Bags Connection "GS" Quick-Lock Tankbag w/Zumo mount
Powerlet power socket (panel-mount) for GPS
Coaxial power socket for heated clothing
Genmar bar risers
Stainless mesh oil cooler screen
You might notice something missing from that list--the word "Touratech."


SIDECAR MODS
DMC electric tilt/trim
1150GS Adventure cross-spoke rear wheel
1150GS brake caliper and rotor
Heidenau K60 Scout rear tire
Ride-On tire sealant
1150GS tail light (matches the bike)
Rugged Roads running light/brake light LED insert
DMC turn signals modified to be running lights too
Southco locking trunk latch (w/steel latch plate)
Givi rear luggage rack (from a V46 tail case)
HumVee "GS" graphics
Custom marine-grade upholstery
Custom seat foam (Sargent "Super Cell Atomic Foam")
Wingbolt seatback mounts (see post 66)
Tonneau cover in matching red
Windshield with matching red apron
Windshield trim in matching red
Body edge trim in matching red
Red polypro step plate
Carpeting - trunk and passenger compartment
Stainless grab bar with BMW-style crossbar pad
Seat belt (guess what color?)
Power distribution plate (for future passenger accessories--heated clothing, GPS etc.--switched and unswitched leads)















And here's one with the touring seat removed and the "dirt" seat in place, with my buddy Kirby looking on.




I've taken it for a few "shakedown" rides around town on pavement. As soon as I get a few more problem items taken care of, I'll do a dirt shakedown camping trip to make sure it's set up the way I want it.

A note on the lights. The way I got it set up, the yellow Hella fog lights automatically come on with the low beam. When I switch to high, the fogs and the low beam stay on and the HID high beam kicks in. Then I have another little switch that turns on the off-road lights and at the same time kills the fog lights. That way I'm quasi-legal by having only have 4 lamps lit at any one time. I say "quasi" because the HID lamp and the two LED lamps are way too bright to be D.O.T. approved.

BTW, I didn't just do farkles all winter. This rig was not in great shape when I got it. What you don't see here are all the things I fixed, replaced or updated because they were old or broken or missing. Happily, the engine, clutch, gearbox, final drive, starter, brakes, and all mechanicals are solid.

Any questions about part sourcing or anything else, post it here.

Links to additional mods and info in this thread--
Front Shock Rebuild
Rear Shock Rebuild
Sintered Clutch
Dog Platform

Aux Fuel Bottle
Luggage
Sidecar Aux Power Supply
FZ-1 Fuzeblock (discussion starts about half way down this page)
Dual Battery Isolator
Pannier Lid Stay
Sidecar Seatback Mod
Sidecar Seat Foam
Y-Pipe Ceramic Coating
Backcountry pics
Total Weight of the Rig

If you want to cut through all the clutter in this thread and only read my updates, get the ADV De-Crufter - HERE. Works great and it's free! There's also a Chrome version in another thread. Find it, get it, use it.
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Old 07-16-2013, 02:00 PM   #443
slowpoke69
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If

If the shock is too long and has started causing the noise won't the crosses in the driveshaft be worn in an odd pattern?

I don't know BMW's, but a u joint is a u joint, the wear will be off to one side if the angle is too severe, may be harder to see if it's a cv (cardon) style joint.

Perhaps the stealership didn't lube the shaft (get your minds out of the gutter), or crosses before installing. Not all crosses are lubed from the factory, maybe someone had their head someplace else.

I'd hate to see you sell it, especially since I'm broke!

If I had money, conversely, I'd love to see you sell it. Your hack started my itch for one, it's AWESOME!

You're too invested, you'll get it sorted. The light at the end of the tunnel, don't sweat that, it's just one of them high tech cash registers at the stealership!
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:14 PM   #444
davebig
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Drone
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Old 07-20-2013, 06:42 PM   #445
DRONE OP
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finished with vibrations

Restored the shock to stock length. No change to the vibrations.

Had my mechanic tear out the gearbox. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the gearbox! Well, at least my curiosity has been satisfied! He found all the gears to be in excellent shape and all bearings to be pretty much like new. Already ordered all new bearings for the gearbox so installed them. Refilled with 70/140 synthetic.

Vibrations are still there. And, oh, by the way, the vibrations are the same when I ride the bike as a solo with the sidecar removed, so its got nothing to do with the car.

So that's it. Not gonna try anything else. I'm done trying to find these vibrations. Like I said before, I'm sure the next owner will simply adjust the left mirror or change to a different headlight bulb and the vibrations will vanish!
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Old 07-20-2013, 06:43 PM   #446
DRONE OP
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Great Divide Ride

Me and the Kirbs leave for the Bigfoot Sidecar Rally in Nelson BC on Wednesday. There we'll connect up with Norton(kel) then head to Banff to try our luck on the Great Divide Route--2400 miles of mostly dirt roads from Banff to the Mexican border at Antelope Wells, NM, crossing and re-crossing the Continental Divide at least 30 times. Not sure if we'll make it, but we're gonna try!
  • fresh oil and filter?-check
  • brakes bled?-check
  • tires all set?-check
  • camping gear modified and tested?-check
  • new Montana 650 GPS sorted?-check
  • paper maps from the Adventure Cycling Assoc?-check
  • medical kit updated?-check (aspirin, acetaminophen, ibuprofen, naproxen, oxycodone--what more do you need?)
  • WUMPA tried and tested and ready to go?-check (the driver maybe not so much .)
I don't think I'll do a ride report until after we get back, but I might be able to post updates here from time-to-time.

See ya around the bend!
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Old 07-21-2013, 05:52 AM   #447
Bobmws
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Location: Same trailer, different park, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRONE View Post
Restored the shock to stock length. No change to the vibrations.

Had my mechanic tear out the gearbox. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the gearbox! Well, at least my curiosity has been satisfied! He found all the gears to be in excellent shape and all bearings to be pretty much like new. Already ordered all new bearings for the gearbox so installed them. Refilled with 70/140 synthetic.

Vibrations are still there. And, oh, by the way, the vibrations are the same when I ride the bike as a solo with the sidecar removed, so its got nothing to do with the car.

So that's it. Not gonna try anything else. I'm done trying to find these vibrations. Like I said before, I'm sure the next owner will simply adjust the left mirror or change to a different headlight bulb and the vibrations will vanish!
I'm sure your mechanic checked, especially if he had the tranny out, but isn't there a potential for the driveshaft U-joints to be out of phase?
Enjoy your trip.
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Old 07-21-2013, 07:18 AM   #448
davebig
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Eh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmws View Post
I'm sure your mechanic checked, especially if he had the tranny out, but isn't there a potential for the driveshaft U-joints to be out of phase?
Had my mechanic tear out the gearbox. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the gearbox! Well, at least my curiosity has been satisfied! He found all the gears to be in excellent shape and all bearings to be pretty much like new. Already ordered all new bearings for the gearbox so installed them. Refilled with 70/140 synthetic.
Enjoy your trip.
On the adv models one can't get them out of phase, Drone is tired of my lectures but apparently he's also tired of google or he would have found any number of threads with dissappointed 70/140 gearlube users who switched back to 70/90 or better yet a high quality straight 90w which would quiet his trans allot and provide better protection for his trans but he beleives everything his dealer tells him. BMW has screwed up allot of stuff but they know better than to admit it.Is this unwillingness to change a product of your education ? DB
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=825462

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=513196

https://www.google.com/search?q=gear...ient=firefox-a
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davebig screwed with this post 07-21-2013 at 07:47 AM
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Old 07-21-2013, 09:00 AM   #449
Melrone
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Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Cheese Head Country
Oddometer: 897
When I got my FD rebuilt.Tom Cutter only recomends only 70-90 weight oil. He will not warranty his work if there synthecic is used in the final drive.For me is fine,I don't like synthec oil anyway.I tried 90-140 from Amz Oil not impressed..
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Old 07-22-2013, 11:09 AM   #450
dholaday
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Joined: Nov 2008
Location: White Salmon, WA
Oddometer: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRONE View Post
Me and the Kirbs leave for the Bigfoot Sidecar Rally in Nelson BC on Wednesday. There we'll connect up with Norton(kel) then head to Banff to try our luck on the Great Divide Route--2400 miles of mostly dirt roads from Banff to the Mexican border at Antelope Wells, NM, crossing and re-crossing the Continental Divide at least 30 times. Not sure if we'll make it, but we're gonna try!
  • fresh oil and filter?-check
  • brakes bled?-check
  • tires all set?-check
  • camping gear modified and tested?-check
  • new Montana 650 GPS sorted?-check
  • paper maps from the Adventure Cycling Assoc?-check
  • medical kit updated?-check (aspirin, acetaminophen, ibuprofen, naproxen, oxycodone--what more do you need?)
  • WUMPA tried and tested and ready to go?-check (the driver maybe not so much .)
I don't think I'll do a ride report until after we get back, but I might be able to post updates here from time-to-time.

See ya around the bend!
DRONE:

You might consider adding a SPOT and/or a rented satellite phone to your list. You're going to be out in the wilds with no cell service and it might be nice to be able to connect to help if you drive the rig off a cliff.

Best of luck to you and the Kirby - It's going to be a great adventure!!

Duncan
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