ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Hacks
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-27-2013, 09:16 AM   #541
Beemerhack
Dog Slave
 
Beemerhack's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Lake Oswego, OR
Oddometer: 7
Laugh

I would not hesitate to hack any of the GS models. There are a zillion of them on the road. Most of my breakdowns could have been avoided if I had done the following:

-Used Loctite on the bolts
-Marked fasters with paint marks to indicate if they have moved
-Do a better job of inspecting the rig daily.
-Replaced my worn out shocks.

Keep in mind that Like Drone I ride my rig on terrible roads. I also own a v-Strom DL-1000 and I ride my GS rig on roads and trails that I am afraid to try with the v-strom.

I am very happy with my GS rig, but I seem to always need to learn my lessons the hard way. Bottom line - I think A GS is great match for a sidecar. But to quote the Red Menace "If you are gonna play - you gotta Pay" Vernon says he never met a sidecar he could not break.

Dean
Beemerhack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 09:56 AM   #542
claude
Sidecar Jockey
 
Joined: Mar 2002
Location: Middleburg, Pa. (Snyder County)
Oddometer: 3,559
Dan Alexander wrote:
>> haven't hacked my 11GS yet (this winter) but I'm starting to have some concerns<<
Dan,
I really would not be concerned. The GS does a time proven great job as a sidecar outfit. By the way...The 1100's, as you may know, did have some issues with the rear substructure that holds the seat and panniers breaking down low without a sidecar on. Sidecar mounts MUST enhance all of this plus more and can do so if done right.
__________________
Claude

Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub at SCT
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

President: C Stanley Motorsports Inc.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/...rsandTrailers/

http://freedomsidecars.com/
claude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 10:04 AM   #543
DRONE OP
Dog Chauffeur
 
DRONE's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Tacoma, WA-ish
Oddometer: 3,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemerhack View Post
Drone,

Add me to the long list of inmates who are glad you and Kirby are pretty near OK. Sounds like your leg will take some time to fully heal.

My dog Locky and I rode the dual sport ride you set up at the 2012 Sidecar rally in CDA. I was the boat anchor that took forever to get ready to go and then had to stop for gas before we could leave town. Your patience was admirable. I am the Dean that Mr Cob posted the pictured of fixing my front forks during the Black Dog in June of this year.

I have had my 95 R1100GS with DMC sidecar since June 2012 and had several breakdowns but nothing that dumped me or Locky off of the rig like your crash. I aggressively ride the same sort of roads you do. Here is a run down of what has broken on my rig:

1. Sept 2012 Lower shock bolt on hack vibrated loose and broke off 20+ miles North of Imnaha, OR on Dug Bar landing road. I was able to strap the shock back in place and rode to Enterprise and replace the bolt.

2. June 2013 Black Dog D/S ride out of Odell, OR. Steering got very loose and handlebars were crooked. Found one bolt on fork bridge missing and another one broken off. Able to replace missing one on road side and limp back to camp for complete repairs. Next day the starter went out on the GS in the middle of a snowdrift. I am now in the BMW hall of shame because I had to be towed out by Mr COB with his Ural. OH yea, he video taped the whole adventure. I believe the title was "Undependable Ural rescues the Dependable BMW"

3. Aug 2013 Rat Dog D/S ride out of Tillamook, OR. I was checking the rig out once I got camp set up and found another broken bolt on the fork bridge. I think my problems with the fork bridge bolts are due to needing better shocks on my rig. Unless I am very careful the front end will bottom out in tough conditions. I am trying to save up the $$$ to get a set of after market shock custom sprung for my rig.

4. 2 days later at the Rat Dog. 9 miles from camp on forest service roads the sidecar rear cross member broke and the suspension dropped down enough to turn the fender into a giant brake. I was able to strap it up with a couple of tie down straps and ride it back to camp. But the rig came home on a tow truck and the frame is now up at DMC being repaired and powder coated. If I figure out how to attach a picture I will post one of the broken frame.

Hope your leg heals fast and you get your stunning rig back on the road soon.

Dean
Man, Dean, you sound like my brother from another mother! I've broken my frame and had to strap it up with climbing rope. Had to replace my old starter, but luckily that happened while I was close to home. Didn't break the sidecar shock bolt, but did break the sidecar shock (luckily not on a road like Dug Bar!). Broke my sidecar swingarm. Never broke any fork clamp bolts but I used to bottom out my front shock with a 331 lbs/in spring until I swapped in a 354 lb spring. Have you destroyed your slave, yet? That's always a fun one!
__________________
WUMPA
Sidecardogs.com
DRONE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 10:07 AM   #544
DRONE OP
Dog Chauffeur
 
DRONE's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Tacoma, WA-ish
Oddometer: 3,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Alexander View Post
I haven't hacked my 11GS yet (this winter) but I'm starting to have some concerns
I agree with the comments above. The only reason we break our rigs is because we're having so much fun with them on challenging roads. Stay on pavement and smooth gravel and you won't ever have anything interesting to post!
__________________
WUMPA
Sidecardogs.com
DRONE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 10:23 AM   #545
Dan Alexander
Ride Far - Ride Fast
 
Dan Alexander's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Now only Montreal
Oddometer: 7,018
But that's not where I want to ride!

I want to climb Kilimanjaro with it
__________________
Beemers Past and Present: 74 R90S, 77 R100RS, 85 K100RS, 2x 87 K100RS, 96 R1100GS (getting hacked), 99 R1100S, 2002 R1150GS, 2005 F650 Dakar
Plus the occasional Triumph, BSA, Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki and KTM but who's counting
Dan Alexander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 10:26 AM   #546
Dan Alexander
Ride Far - Ride Fast
 
Dan Alexander's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Now only Montreal
Oddometer: 7,018
Quote:
Originally Posted by claude View Post
Dan Alexander wrote:
>> haven't hacked my 11GS yet (this winter) but I'm starting to have some concerns<<
Dan,
I really would not be concerned. The GS does a time proven great job as a sidecar outfit. By the way...The 1100's, as you may know, did have some issues with the rear substructure that holds the seat and panniers breaking down low without a sidecar on. Sidecar mounts MUST enhance all of this plus more and can do so if done right.
I wasn't aware of weak points on the sub frame but do know the transmission cases break easier than the 1150's hence those TT supports.

We will need to have a long talk before I get into this But first I need to refinish the car as it's none too pretty.
__________________
Beemers Past and Present: 74 R90S, 77 R100RS, 85 K100RS, 2x 87 K100RS, 96 R1100GS (getting hacked), 99 R1100S, 2002 R1150GS, 2005 F650 Dakar
Plus the occasional Triumph, BSA, Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki and KTM but who's counting
Dan Alexander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 05:51 PM   #547
davebig
Another Angry Hun !
 
davebig's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Minnesota
Oddometer: 2,888
Pissed It is what it is !!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Alexander View Post
I haven't hacked my 11GS yet (this winter) but I'm starting to have some concerns
Dan
The R1100 is maybe a better cantidate, better gearing,but less strong forks tougher to do the Dedone style mod but Strokers done his as well as Twintwin.
Drone and the PNW DMC customers can think what ever they want lots of DMC's early work was poor structural welding(drone sent me an image of this cracked swingarm), in DMCs defense his stuff looks better now.
Stroker,Twintwin and several others started out as DMC customers but too much breakage and attitude drove them off.Half the country mistrusts Jay I have no idea why, I started my sidecar search years ago and and happened to ask a question about DMC's stuff, got an earful,there's allot of negative feeling about him.
Drone I believe Stroker and Twintwins frames broke also you maybe in good company. I dislike the DMC subframe it's not strong enough.But allot depends ones use you going to take my 17 # Schnauzer for a ride or are you going to load her up and go to S America ? It's relevant.I have close to 20 k miles on my CSM rig and have broken any of CSMs work, it's been in the ditch and out of control several times. I don't believe these PNW boys use anything any harder than the rest of us, I heard that Walter Mitty lived out there somewhere perhaps Federal Way.
Hacks aren't rocket science, Drone hates my lecturing but I wasn't in the ditch with my rig on top of me. Anyone who told Drone he'd have to ride it till it broke to find the mystery vibration is damn near criminal.If one's into used hacks and you don't have allot of mechanical apptitude or a friend that does it's goona be painful. Either the trail reducer was brittle and tore apart easily or the ball joint was loose and rocked and tore the threads out possibly being way over sprung excaberated it.
Drone remember your diploma in the closet under the stair stop acting like it's important it's not, try and accept advice when it's freely given !
__________________
Patience: A minor form of despair disguised as a virture.
Ambrose Bierce

davebig screwed with this post 08-27-2013 at 08:10 PM
davebig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 07:50 PM   #548
Strong Bad
n00balicious
 
Strong Bad's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Oddometer: 4,047
I stand proud next to my Dauntless rig that includes one of their trail reducing triple clamps on my R1200GSA.

I may not flog my rig as bad as some (yet) but the sole purpose was to be able to. Therese and I hope to do the CDT next year with our rig and eventually we hope to to take it to South America.

I would trust my current rig 10000 times more than the Ural we used to run.
__________________
"I couldn't wait for success, so I went ahead without it."
Strong Bad is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 08:30 PM   #549
DRONE OP
Dog Chauffeur
 
DRONE's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Tacoma, WA-ish
Oddometer: 3,555
Opinions?

An idea I'd like opinions on. Not a solution, but maybe an improvement to the lower fork bridge. I'm talking about the aftermarket part that looks something like this (varies from one part maker to another)--




What if, instead of putting threads into it as shown, the manufacturer overbores the hole then inserts a STEEL sleeve with threads on the inside for the ball joint. The steel insert would have a steel flange on the underside to prevent it from ever pulling out. The bridge could be machined so that the steel flange would fit flush into the underside of the bridge to avoid it sticking out and interfering with anything.

I'm not a machinist or an engineer but it seems like it would be a fairly easy thing to do and would increase the strength of that connection because you'd have steel threads on steels threads instead of steel on aluminum.

Of course, you'd have to use the right kind of steel. Something strong. Duh.
__________________
WUMPA
Sidecardogs.com
DRONE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 08:32 PM   #550
davebig
Another Angry Hun !
 
davebig's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Minnesota
Oddometer: 2,888













Note that the threads of the steel ball joint are filled with aluminum alloy, and that there are no threads remaining in the ball joint fitting on the lower fork bridge. What happened, simply, is that the ball joint pulled the threads out of the bridge. Once that occurred, all that was needed was the right (wrong?) suspension movement to dislodge the ball joint from the bridge.[/QUOTE]



Strong Bad just the guy that's needed here, you fabricated and worked metal for a living.Are you going to blame the ball joint as well ? How about the adapter screwed into the telelever frame and the ball joint screwed into that."half measures availed us nothing " See if Drone will send you an image of his swingarm it would end up in your welding mistake portfolio ! DB

“Politeness, n. The most acceptable hypocrisy.”

― Ambrose Bierce
__________________
Patience: A minor form of despair disguised as a virture.
Ambrose Bierce
davebig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 08:34 PM   #551
Mr. Cob
Howling "Mad", Adventurer
 
Mr. Cob's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2001
Location: Granite Falls, Washington State, USA
Oddometer: 9,256
Howdy DRONE,

I concur with your idea, its not rocket science just costly to do in such small numbers. Still if the part were available at a REASONABLE cost I would buy one if I chose this type of trail reduction.
__________________
Dave, aka "Mr. Cob"

My photos, http://mr-cob.smugmug.com/ Join Smugmug, use this coupon https://secure.smugmug.com/signup?Coupon=geyYbNZwLLrl6
Mr. Cob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 08:47 PM   #552
davebig
Another Angry Hun !
 
davebig's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Minnesota
Oddometer: 2,888
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRONE View Post
An idea I'd like opinions on. Not a solution, but maybe an improvement to the lower fork bridge. I'm talking about the aftermarket part that looks something like this (varies from one part maker to another)--




What if, instead of putting threads into it as shown, the manufacturer overbores the hole then inserts a STEEL sleeve with threads on the inside for the ball joint. The steel insert would have a steel flange on the underside to prevent it from ever pulling out. The bridge could be machined so that the steel flange would fit flush into the underside of the bridge to avoid it sticking out and interfering with anything.

I'm not a machinist or an engineer but it seems like it would be a fairly easy thing to do and would increase the strength of that connection because you'd have steel threads on steels threads instead of steel on aluminum.

Of course, you'd have to use the right kind of steel. Something strong. Duh.
Cost !!!!! Your's was lose and you've added compexity and machining, I would be willing to bet BMW has never had one pull out period, loctite, the danger isn't in it pulling out,it starts as soon as it loosens just a little then the threads begin to be destroyed walla, You could build the whole thing out of steel and it would cost a fortune.
What I wanted Strong Bad to comment on was the aftermarket trail reducers are machined out of billet aluminum, BMW's oem are drop forged and machined is there much difference in strength.I think he might know.Anytime one adds a seam or joint your weakening things.You could have been saved by a simple cable to limit movement of the telelever beyond full shock extension.DB

Come on gentlemen who would allow their major steering parts assembled without loctite and proper torque ? Has any of these small sidecar builders consulted with any engineers ? Do you really think sidecar builders in WA PA or KT have more engineering know how than BMW ? Do you think BMW engineers would OK the fork angle change ?
__________________
Patience: A minor form of despair disguised as a virture.
Ambrose Bierce

davebig screwed with this post 08-27-2013 at 08:57 PM
davebig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 10:43 PM   #553
twintwin
Studly Adventurer
 
twintwin's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Carmel NY
Oddometer: 642
Drone, I admire your positive attitude and optimism after you crash. If I was in yours shoes, I do not know if I would have had the guts to react with such positivism. Anyhow, I'm so relieved that you and your dog got away unscratched and that your rig can eventually be rebuilt.


Regarding the breakage, I'm very surprised that this happened. I would think the big steering bearing would get damaged first and then the 4 bolts holding the lower bridge would get loose or break, but I would never imagine that the big nuts could eat the aluminum like that and get separated from the lower bridge.

I see 3 different possibilities for why the big bolt got separated from the lower bridge.
1. Does the DMC lower bridge have the same aluminum grade that the OEM one? If it is too soft!, the EOM recommended torque could have crushed the threads in the lower bridge.
2. The new angle of the fork with the modified lower bridge could have weakened the ability of the pivot bolt to work correctly as the anchor point to the bridge.
3. The bolt was not torque enough and was loose in the first place when it was mounted.

I'm not a engineer nor a mechanic, but I think these legit questions must be addressed by the lower bridge manufacturer to avoid that this breakage happens again with much much worse consequences.
I have the original Dedome mod on my R1100GS rig. The angle of the fork is the same and the lower bridge is made of an heavy steel metal plate. No issue yet, but I will now keep a closer look at those parts.














On my R1150GS rig I have a EZS leading link. The pivot bolt does not have any more up and down movements and the shock is replaced by a strut. However, lateral play is still here, but to what extent, I do not know. Nevertheless, I'm a little bit concerned that the weight of the L.L. with the car rim tire is 10 time more than the EOM one. I also have a heavier big steering bearing though, so time will tell if the pivot bolt will hold in the EOM lower bridge.







Now, regarding the concern from some inmates to hack a R1XXGS. I would say that my 2 rigs went in the magic hands of Claude and the build is amazingly strong and well engineered. 6 years ago I had a new DMC subframe , and like many East coast GS early DMC rig, I had to address many issues. We were lucky enough to have Claude a couple hours away who came to the rescue. It is very difficult when you are 3000 miles away to get your rig repaired by Dauntless when something goes wrong. In my opinion, the early DMC subframes were poorly built and engineered, but Jay made many improvements in his building process since then. Also we have to give Jay the big credit for starting all this GS rig saga.


The oilhead is a very good candidate for a hack metamorphosis, but you will learn that many EOM components are not strong enough for pulling a very big extra weight. Transmission, clutch, shocks, final drive, swing arm pivot bearings, will break much quicker and must be take care off soon after the GS is hacked.
twintwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 06:40 AM   #554
davebig
Another Angry Hun !
 
davebig's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Minnesota
Oddometer: 2,888
Bonjour Didier Merci de vous joindre à la conversation, avec un arguement raisonnable.
I sent Claude some seed money and parts for some leading links(mine is working wonderfully though) he'll charge me too much and it will take awhile but I will get my big front tire. We talked about Drones mishap he says there are lots of the trail reducers in service,thinks as I do no thread lock of any sort was the cause.Are you in the US ? take care.DB
__________________
Patience: A minor form of despair disguised as a virture.
Ambrose Bierce
davebig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 07:09 AM   #555
twintwin
Studly Adventurer
 
twintwin's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Carmel NY
Oddometer: 642
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebig View Post
Bonjour Didier Merci de vous joindre à la conversation, avec un arguement raisonnable.
I sent Claude some seed money and parts for some leading links(mine is working wonderfully though) he'll charge me too much and it will take awhile but I will get my big front tire. We talked about Drones mishap he says there are lots of the trail reducers in service,thinks as I do no thread lock of any sort was the cause.Are you in the US ? take care.DB
Hi Dave, I'm still in Bangalore India, chasing the elephants and the tigers on my Royal Enfield, 500cc and 27HP of pure fun. I will be back in the US next week for a couple month before returning in India for a year.





twintwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 09:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014