ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-11-2013, 05:18 AM   #4141
woodzrider
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Choctaw, Okla., anywhere I happen to be
Oddometer: 557
I thought I saw a view where it was in the fuel rail inlet. but I can't find the expl. view..................
__________________
Woodzrider AKA vetracer1
"If it can't kill ya-it's not a sport"......It ALMOST killed me tho.....
Check out my crash report:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=500314
Baja report http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641219
woodzrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 06:20 AM   #4142
Nice_Rumble
Beastly Adventurer
 
Nice_Rumble's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: New London, NH
Oddometer: 2,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodzrider View Post
I thought I saw a view where it was in the fuel rail inlet. but I can't find the expl. view..................
http://www.omraoffroad.com/forum/vie...11373&start=30

The 2012 KTM four-strokes (4T) come with a very, very tiny, black, cone-shaped fuel filter ... that is located *INSIDE* of the fuel rail that connects to the fuel injector body.
The fuel line then actually slips *over* the end of this filter .... as it slides onto the barb fitting of the fuel rail.
This tiny filter is the final dirt barrier between the quick-disconnect coupler and the fuel injector.




The fuel filter that came with the "early run" 2012 models is black-colored and can filter down to 10 microns.
But due to it's very small size -- it plugs way too easy.
It is also *rumored* to swell from engine heat (?) and close off the fuel flow. But that hasn't actually been proven.
Either way - it is problematic and affects/shuts off the fuel flow.
Which leads to hard starting, sputtering, bogging, poor performance, and a potentially damaging lean condition.

To address this issue, KTM has issued Tech Service Bulletin (TSB) 1202.

The TSB kits contain a screw-type FI clamp for the fuel line and a light-grey-colored fuel filter to replace the black one in the fuel line.
The grey-colored filter has a larger mesh that can filter down to 20 microns.
Which means that it will be less prone to plugging ... but that it will also not supply as much protection as the black, 10 micron filter.
This is why some peeps are completely removing the final, cone-shaped filter (regardless if it is the black, 10 micron
or grey, 20 micron model) and replacing it with another external FI fuel filter.
__________________
Friend us on Facebook to learn about up coming 2014 DARC Adventure rides Vermont, MA and RI.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/212396922304662/
Nice_Rumble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 10:10 AM   #4143
Bengt Phorks
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Oddometer: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by team ftb View Post
Bengt can you describe exactly where that filter (not the one in the quick disconnect) is located?
I took apart my throttle body and peered on the parts microfiche but my blind arse can't locate it.

Thanks.
The filter is in the inlet side of the fuel injector body. It has a metal screen. It looks like this but black colored: http://creditparts.en.gasgoo.com/aut...s/1484232.html
A typical injector assembly:
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data...l_injector.jpg
I would advise you not to remove it unless you have a replacement in hand. It is a tight fit.
I cleaned my injector without removing the filter.
Bengt Phorks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 12:51 AM   #4144
E-Ticket2
E-Ticket
 
E-Ticket2's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Oddometer: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengt Phorks View Post
The filter is in the inlet side of the fuel injector body. It has a metal screen. It looks like this but black colored: http://creditparts.en.gasgoo.com/aut...s/1484232.html
A typical injector assembly:
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data...l_injector.jpg
I would advise you not to remove it unless you have a replacement in hand. It is a tight fit.
I cleaned my injector without removing the filter.
Great pics, sir ... thanks! E-Ticket
__________________
"... AYHIN ...."

Mine: '12 KTM 350 EXC-F; '99 Honda VFR 800i Interceptor
Wife: '08 KTM 250 XCF-W; '04 Honda CBR600 F4i
E-Ticket2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 06:10 AM   #4145
Chris6_85
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Chris6_85's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Skagit County
Oddometer: 298
Just curious on metal shavings u guys are finding on each oil change. I have 65 hrs on the bike and the shavings found on each oil change have been same since the first oil change. I will post s pic the next oil cgange
Chris6_85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 11:51 AM   #4146
Ronin ADV
Gear addict
 
Ronin ADV's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Northern Sierras
Oddometer: 594
EXC vs WR

I have been meaning to write up a comparison of these two bikes for a while and after some recent additional questions from some other riders I figured I would get around to it.

My Bikes:

2010 Yamaha WR 250 R
Engine mods: AIS removal, EXUP removal, Graves servo, Airbox, mod, FMF power programmer
Exhaust: FMF Q4 with Powerbomb header
Uni filter
3.5 gallon Safari tank
Gearing 13/47
Scotts damper
Highway dirt bike guards / Pro taper bars
Armor – various (skid plate, case save, rad guard, etc)
Wolfman racks
Pro Moto billet rear rack
Renazco seat

2013 KTM 500 EXC
Stock engine, desmogged
Exhaust: Akropovic
13 liter KTM (Acerbis) tank
Gearing 13 / 48
Scotts damper
Highway dirt bike guards / Pro taper bars
Armor – various (skid plate, rad guard, header guard, etc)
Pro Moto billet rear rack
Renazco seat





Me: 6’1”, 185 lbs, 46 years old, Intermediate skill / aggressive rider. Dual sport / enduro / trail rider. No MX / large jumps.

Riding area / conditions: I ride in the northern California Sierra mountains. The surface is dirt, gravel and rocks of all sizes. No real sand. Mix of Forest Service roads and single track. Twisty canyon / mountain pavement to get to dirt. Most rides 80-120 miles.


Power:

As you would expect the advantage clearly goes to the EXC. This bike has tons of power and torque. It will throttle wheelie / loft the front in the first several gears. It becomes very easy to just blip the throttle and get the front up over obstacles at a variety of speeds. The bike idles high by design and can surge a bit in the bottom of first. It really begs to be ridden fast. On the other hand all that torque also allows it to just dig in and tractor up really well in steep and loose stuff. I don’t tend to ride up past 80 on the pavement (mainly due to tires) but I have talked to other 500 riders who have had the bike up over 100 mph.
The WR is a very different animal. First off I did the usual mods to maximize the power. This of coarse is a matter of much debate and many will contend that the mods are unnecessary and maybe even bad. That was not my experience and I feel that the bike felt much more snappy after the mods. “Snappy” of coarse is relative and the KTM is in whole other league. This is not to discount the WR and I think that it is routinely underestimated in the power department. For a 250 it will still get up to 80 on the road and has plenty of power for the vast majority of dirt. It also has really nice smooth delivery of power and I think is actually better in super slow first gear stuff where the KTM requires much more clutch management. Just understand that the WR takes much more overall gear management and on the road you get to WOT pretty easy. It also doesn’t torque like the EXC and wheelies take more effort.


Suspension:

The stock suspension on the EXC was just about perfect for me. I know some guys find it soft and certainly if you are doing MX, bigger jumps, or are heavier that would be true. For the type of riding I do, it allows good control and a generally cush ride.
The stock suspension on the WR is terrible. It had a bucking bronco feel especially in the back. It constantly tried to vault me over the front bars in rougher stuff at speed. After I had the suspension overhauled by Trail Tricks it is a different bike and now has a very cush, controlled ride.
Both bikes benefit from a damper.


Comfort / ergonomics:

I put risers on both bikes as well as pivot pegz and replaced the stock seats. The stock seat on the WR was fair, the stock seat on the EXC was a torture device. Renazco seats fixed things on both bikes.
For whatever reason, the WR still feels more comfortable on longer rides. I think part of this is that I feel a lot less vibrations. I can stand all day on the WR but get lots of vibrations into my legs when standing on the EXC. Nonetheless, the EXC feels so planted overall that I feel I can stay in control while seated most of the time.
One other factor here is the weight. I never really thought the WR was a heavy bike, but compared to the EXC it sure feels like one. The light weight of the EXC makes it much easier to throw around and manage in tougher terrain and is overall less fatiguing. After riding the EXC, I really don’t want to ride anything heavier at least in the harder stuff.
A bit about height. The WR feels tall, the EXC feels really tall. On the other hand it has great ground clearance and coupled with its power characteristics, it makes clearing obstacles easy.


Reliability / Maintenance:

I have had no major issues or failures on either bike. The EXC has performed flawlessly. I do however spend more time with basic / preventative care on the bike. I like working in my shop so this really isn’t a big deal to me. The EXC has 15 hour service intervals and I am careful to stay on top of it. One nice thing about the KTM is that it is so well engineered that it is very easy to work on. There are only a couple bolt sizes on the majority of the bike and it is designed well for easy assembly / disassembly (skid plate: 1 bolt, seat: 1 bolt, side panel: no bolts, gas tank: 1 bolt, fuel line: quick disconnect). You can rack up a fair cost in filters / fluids. The bike however, in my eyes at least, just exudes quality and finish and you can really see where your extra money went.
The WR is also easy to work on and it has the virtue of ridiculously long service intervals. It’s pretty much a gas and go bike and I rarely have to think about checking or maintaining something. Cheap (at least relative to the EXC) and reliable pretty much sums it up.


Overall:

Which is the “better” bike? I think this question is fundamentally flawed as they are slightly different tools. I like to think of the two as the difference between a racehorse and a packhorse.
The WR is smooth and reliable. It’s comfortable to ride and has long service intervals and a heavier sub-frame. If I was going on a tour or out in the middle of nowhere for a longer time, I would take this bike. Dependable, solid, packhorse.
On the other hand the EXC is a grin producing, powerful ride. It just begs to go faster, to loft the front, to push things a bit more. For day rides, especially in harder stuff (except maybe slow first gear stuff like rock crawling), this is the bike. In fact, once I started riding my EXC I thought I would sell my WR. Then I got back on the WR and realized what a good bike it is. Each has its place and you have to decide what are your individual priorities.
For me at this time, I’m keeping both.

(Obviously the above is just my opinion. If you don’t agree with me, that’s cool. Just don’t get your knickers in a twist because you think I insulted your bike.)
__________________
Dan
2010 BMW F800GS, 2011 Yamaha WR250R, 2011 Honda Ruckus, 2013 KTM 500 EXC
Up the WABDR, F800GS Stealth Bike Build, WR250R Scotts Damper Install
Red dirt, rocks and sand; Riding the southern UTBDR, WR250R vs EXC 500 - a comparison

Ronin ADV screwed with this post 06-12-2013 at 01:12 PM
Ronin ADV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 02:38 PM   #4147
StevenD
Hmmmm, dirt!
 
StevenD's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Holland, Amserdammed
Oddometer: 1,108
Totally agree with your post.

Just, I can do all with the exc that the Yamaha did. There's many things I won't do with the wr that I happily ride with the exc. I had to choose one and never looked back at the wr after getting a 500.

Both bikes are great, the wr just has a more limited area of capability's. The exc needs some mods to do what the wr does stock.
__________________
999 LC8 Rat-Rally custom - 500 EXC - XR666R '85
StevenD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 03:07 PM   #4148
avconnect
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: Salt Lake City
Oddometer: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nice_Rumble View Post
http://www.omraoffroad.com/forum/vie...11373&start=30

The 2012 KTM four-strokes (4T) come with a very, very tiny, black, cone-shaped fuel filter ... that is located *INSIDE* of the fuel rail that connects to the fuel injector body.
The fuel line then actually slips *over* the end of this filter .... as it slides onto the barb fitting of the fuel rail.
This tiny filter is the final dirt barrier between the quick-disconnect coupler and the fuel injector.




The fuel filter that came with the "early run" 2012 models is black-colored and can filter down to 10 microns.
But due to it's very small size -- it plugs way too easy.
It is also *rumored* to swell from engine heat (?) and close off the fuel flow. But that hasn't actually been proven.
Either way - it is problematic and affects/shuts off the fuel flow.
Which leads to hard starting, sputtering, bogging, poor performance, and a potentially damaging lean condition.

To address this issue, KTM has issued Tech Service Bulletin (TSB) 1202.

The TSB kits contain a screw-type FI clamp for the fuel line and a light-grey-colored fuel filter to replace the black one in the fuel line.
The grey-colored filter has a larger mesh that can filter down to 20 microns.
Which means that it will be less prone to plugging ... but that it will also not supply as much protection as the black, 10 micron filter.
This is why some peeps are completely removing the final, cone-shaped filter (regardless if it is the black, 10 micron
or grey, 20 micron model) and replacing it with another external FI fuel filter.
I removed that filter, added a Golan filter and a fuel sock in the tank. No issues followed. Given how hard it is to access that little filter I chose to not replace it with the 20 micron filter. I buggerred up the little red o-ring trying to re-attach the fuel hose to the throttle body.
avconnect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 05:18 PM   #4149
Wentjo
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Wentjo's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Location: Lakewood, CO
Oddometer: 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris6_85 View Post
Just curious on metal shavings u guys are finding on each oil change. I have 65 hrs on the bike and the shavings found on each oil change have been same since the first oil change. I will post s pic the next oil cgange
I noticed some metal shavings early on, I'm at 130hrs now and didn't see any on the last oil change.
Wentjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2013, 08:24 AM   #4150
hbmichael
Gnarly Adventurer
 
hbmichael's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: Californication
Oddometer: 465
2013 500 exc

Bought mine about month ago. Just rode again last night in the Cleveland National Forest which is right here in Orange County Ca. Im a relative noob to dirt riding. Im not a young man but I am youthful! Got my first dirt bike three yrs ago. After years of riding all the asphalt there is here in SoCal, i wanted to keep ridin when the asphalt ended. Ive honed my limited skills on a few old dirt bikes, mostly on a big ole DR650. Most of my bros were ridin KTMs and i was working REAL hard. 12000 miles hard.
Most of my riding is true enduro. Lots of asphalt, some fwy, fire roads and some fairly tight single track. The KTM 500 exc kicks ass! Right out of the gate the guys at Three Bros in costa mesa hooked me up. Ive added plastic skid plate, pro bend hand guards and 14-48 sprockets. The power on tap with a twist of the wrist is phenomenal. The 15 hour oil changes are coming on quick!
The question I have is, eventhough the bike makes loads of power and i really dont require more(yet!). I have noticed that the bike does run pretty lean. Pops like crazy on decel, and the throttle application can be a bit snatchy at low speeds and small throttle openings. Id like to address these minor issues.
Im somewhat aware of the options, different ecu flashes, programers, and the bestdualsport throttle body mod. Which route is the best bang for the buck? On the desmog side. Is there an effective way to remove the air injection without any complications? Do I really need the evaporative cannister?
Any other tips or suggestions for improvements (the seat blows!) or ways to keep this bad ass machine in good working order?
hbmichael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2013, 08:30 AM   #4151
BillUA
Las Vegas, NV
 
BillUA's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Oddometer: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbmichael View Post
Bought mine about month ago. Just rode again last night in the Cleveland National Forest which is right here in Orange County Ca. Im a relative noob to dirt riding. Im not a young man but I am youthful! Got my first dirt bike three yrs ago. After years of riding all the asphalt there is here in SoCal, i wanted to keep ridin when the asphalt ended. Ive honed my limited skills on a few old dirt bikes, mostly on a big ole DR650. Most of my bros were ridin KTMs and i was working REAL hard. 12000 miles hard.
Most of my riding is true enduro. Lots of asphalt, some fwy, fire roads and some fairly tight single track. The KTM 500 exc kicks ass! Right out of the gate the guys at Three Bros in costa mesa hooked me up. Ive added plastic skid plate, pro bend hand guards and 14-48 sprockets. The power on tap with a twist of the wrist is phenomenal. The 15 hour oil changes are coming on quick!
The question I have is, eventhough the bike makes loads of power and i really dont require more(yet!). I have noticed that the bike does run pretty lean. Pops like crazy on decel, and the throttle application can be a bit snatchy at low speeds and small throttle openings. Id like to address these minor issues.
Im somewhat aware of the options, different ecu flashes, programers, and the bestdualsport throttle body mod. Which route is the best bang for the buck? On the desmog side. Is there an effective way to remove the air injection without any complications? Do I really need the evaporative cannister?
Any other tips or suggestions for improvements (the seat blows!) or ways to keep this bad ass machine in good working order?

I just sent my throttle body off to Best Dual Sports for the magic mod. I have desmogged my bike and will reprogram to the XCW.

I'll report back my findings.
__________________
2013 KTM 500 EXC - 14/50, Magic Mod. FMF. No thermostat, Evans. Acerbis 3.1 and 4.1 tanks
2012 RZR 800 LE
2001 KX 500 w/Stewart mods
2002 WR 426 Hot Cams
BillUA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2013, 08:50 AM   #4152
hbmichael
Gnarly Adventurer
 
hbmichael's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: Californication
Oddometer: 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillUA View Post
I just sent my throttle body off to Best Dual Sports for the magic mod. I have desmogged my bike and will reprogram to the XCW.

I'll report back my findings.
Excellent. Im quite curious. Desmogged as in?
hbmichael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2013, 09:04 AM   #4153
BanhXeo
Gnarly Adventurer
 
BanhXeo's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Location: Chico, CA NOR-CAL baby
Oddometer: 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbmichael View Post
Bought mine about month ago. Just rode again last night in the Cleveland National Forest which is right here in Orange County Ca. Im a relative noob to dirt riding. Im not a young man but I am youthful! Got my first dirt bike three yrs ago. After years of riding all the asphalt there is here in SoCal, i wanted to keep ridin when the asphalt ended. Ive honed my limited skills on a few old dirt bikes, mostly on a big ole DR650. Most of my bros were ridin KTMs and i was working REAL hard. 12000 miles hard.
Most of my riding is true enduro. Lots of asphalt, some fwy, fire roads and some fairly tight single track. The KTM 500 exc kicks ass! Right out of the gate the guys at Three Bros in costa mesa hooked me up. Ive added plastic skid plate, pro bend hand guards and 14-48 sprockets. The power on tap with a twist of the wrist is phenomenal. The 15 hour oil changes are coming on quick!
The question I have is, eventhough the bike makes loads of power and i really dont require more(yet!). I have noticed that the bike does run pretty lean. Pops like crazy on decel, and the throttle application can be a bit snatchy at low speeds and small throttle openings. Id like to address these minor issues.
Im somewhat aware of the options, different ecu flashes, programers, and the bestdualsport throttle body mod. Which route is the best bang for the buck? On the desmog side. Is there an effective way to remove the air injection without any complications? Do I really need the evaporative cannister?
Any other tips or suggestions for improvements (the seat blows!) or ways to keep this bad ass machine in good working order?
I noticed a lot of the same things when I first started riding my EXC. I also just started riding dirt bikes last year. I have since logged 6000 miles on the KTM and grabbed a F8 GS for longer hauls. I would just like to caution about reflashing or getting the Mod just due to snappyness and some popping on decel as it is a completely different beast than the DR. Mine (as well as many others) experienced it right away and once the bike starts to break in a lot of the small stuff went away. Maybe try adjusting your idle screw. This helped the "excessive" popping on my buddy's 500. As far as a seat goes, I love my mine from Seatconcepts.com
__________________
2013 KTM EXC-F SOLD
2013 BMW F8 GS FOR SALE
SmugMug: http://ktmrider.smugmug.com/
This is my WIFE, here are my BIKES, and these are my STORIES: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=897188
BanhXeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2013, 09:20 AM   #4154
hbmichael
Gnarly Adventurer
 
hbmichael's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: Californication
Oddometer: 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by BanhXeo View Post
I noticed a lot of the same things when I first started riding my EXC. I also just started riding dirt bikes last year. I have since logged 6000 miles on the KTM and grabbed a F8 GS for longer hauls. I would just like to caution about reflashing or getting the Mod just due to snappyness and some popping on decel as it is a completely different beast than the DR. Mine (as well as many others) experienced it right away and once the bike starts to break in a lot of the small stuff went away. Maybe try adjusting your idle screw. This helped the "excessive" popping on my buddy's 500. As far as a seat goes, I love my mine from Seatconcepts.com
This seems to be good advise. I do LOVE my bike! So no desmog either?
hbmichael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2013, 09:26 AM   #4155
BanhXeo
Gnarly Adventurer
 
BanhXeo's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Location: Chico, CA NOR-CAL baby
Oddometer: 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbmichael View Post
This seems to be good advise. I do LOVE my bike! So no desmog either?
Nah. Mine runs fine IMHO.
__________________
2013 KTM EXC-F SOLD
2013 BMW F8 GS FOR SALE
SmugMug: http://ktmrider.smugmug.com/
This is my WIFE, here are my BIKES, and these are my STORIES: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=897188
BanhXeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 02:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014