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Old 05-16-2011, 10:26 AM   #61
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Those be cleaned-up splines. See earlier pics for greasy version. 39,000 miles (not kilometers).
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Old 05-16-2011, 08:04 PM   #62
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Have a few days of travel coming up. Unfortunately not on the GS.
Will get back to this post in a few days!
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Old 05-27-2011, 10:37 PM   #63
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Disassembly Part 8

I'm baaaack!

I finally made it back into the garage to continue tackling this growing "where's the leak?" exercise. Here is the update:

30. With the transmission sitting on the bench I got ready to remove the input shaft seals. Prior to removal I took measurements of the shaft seals. Using a digital caliper with depth gauge I took four measurements around the circumference of the bore. This was to record the depth the seal was from the face of the transmission housing
a. 12 o’clock: 5.2mm, 3 o’clock: 5.1mm , 6 o’clock: 5.2mm, 9 o’clock: 5.3mm.
b. I also checked the bore diameter: 31mm and the input shaft diameter: approx 19mm.
c. I have decided to install a new clutch slave seal as well so: bore: approx 27.5mm and the depth of the seal is approx 39mm.
31. Not having a proper seal puller I took the DIY route. After attempting to pull it out with dental picks with no success I hit one side with a flat head screwdriver at the 3 o’clock position. This gentle tap resulted in the opposite side popping out. I was then able to use some precision screwdrivers to pry out the seal.
a. I noted what seemed like a micro gouge in the bore. I rolled up some wet sand paper, applied some spit and lightly touched up the surface.
b. The bore was cleaned up with methyl hydrate and Q-tips.
Seal removal started:


Seal removed:


32. As a side note, today I ordered new stainless clutch and brake lines. Spiegler.

33. With the seal out of the transmission I could now focus on removing the clutch.

34. I read the BMW manual. This was informative. I think it was summed up in one sentence that said “remove clutch”. Uh, thanks for the details. The Clymer on the other had was much more useful but make sure you read it a few times. Some of the steps are not the most clear and contradict each other. But you realize what the intent is once you read the whole procedure.

35. The first step, following the Clymer, was to loosen and remove the 6 bolts holding the cover, clutch disc and pressure plate together. Holding the assy together with one hand I removed the bolts with the other. The “clamping hand” did not let go so the assembly would stay together during removal. This allows for the plates to be marked for reassembly.
a. Observation: I did find the white paint mark on the cover and pressure plate. I also found a blue mark and the number “2” on the pressure plate. None of the marks on the pressure plate were 180º opposite the weight marks on the cover plate.
White mark on clutch housing cover:


Steadying the diaphragm spring from falling after removing clutch assy:


Clutch assy and spring resting on bench:


Plethora of weight markings on the clutch assy. 1 points to mark on housing cover. 2 points to a white mark on pressure plate. 3 points to a number "2" written on pressure plate. 4 points to a blue mark on the pressure plate. What is the blue dot for? Also, note that 1 and 2 are about 70º apart. 1 and 3 are about 110º apart. None subscribe to the 180º separation as noted in Clymer:


Should this clutch go back in the bike, I used a black Sharpie to make alignment marks:


Clutch parts laid out:


Close-up of Housing Cover:


Close-up of Clutch friction disc:


Measured the clutch thickness at the rivets. I measured several positions around the clutch (all at the rivets). All measurements were just north of 6.0mm. Wear limit is 4.8mm. As a reminder this bike is 39,000 miles on it. Seems pretty good for the clutch. Unless anyone can see otherwise, this clutch is going back in.




36. Not having the BMW special tool for the flywheel I just put a bolt between the engine case and the flywheel teeth. Using a breaker bar, 17mm socket and applying firm pressure on the bolt heads I slowly and carefully loosened the bolts holding the flywheel to the crank.
a. I observed a slight trace of oil on one of the bolts. Remember, I was only taking the clutch off to inspect what may have been a main seal leak. I was really hoping this oil was from the original install. The BMW manual suggests installing the bolts with slightly oiled threads.
b. I pulled the flywheel off and found a slightly glistening main seal. Nothing pouring out but wet all the same. Bummer. I guess I am really going to learn about this machine before I am done with it.
c. I wasn’t certain about which parts needed to be marked for alignment so I made reference marks and numbers on the parts as they came off. You’ll see the bolt holes are numbered to match.
d. The clutch assy bolts were removed and put in my metal recycle bin.
Bolt as make-shift tool to restrain flywheel from rotating while removing bolts at flywheel / crank:


Hmmm, slight bit of oil here:


Close-up:


Take a look here. Main seal shows a subtle glistening around the perimeter:


Close-up:



37. From Poolside’s suggestion in another post I picked up a pick and hook set for pulling the main seal. This will have to wait for tomorrow.
38. While the old seal was in place I used some brake cleaner and then some WD40 to scrub out the inside of the clutch housing case.

A start at cleaning of the mess:


Hmmm, time for one of these:


More tomorrow.....
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Old 05-28-2011, 01:23 AM   #64
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More great pictures! Cool, you found the problem. I don't think there's a thing wrong with the rear main seal, or the clutch. Certainly not for how proud BMW is of their $25 VeeDub Sachs clutch. :-) Hey, did you mark the position of the pressure plate relative to the flywheel?

How do the input bearings feel? Is there much shaft run out or end play?


Gear oil and hops, a winning combination!


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Old 05-28-2011, 05:39 AM   #65
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Great thread and great pics! Brings back memories of replacing my tranny when the same leak occurred on my 1100gs!
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Old 05-28-2011, 09:01 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
Hey, did you mark the position of the pressure plate relative to the flywheel?
What? Ofcourse not. I have always subscribed to the mantra of "if there is a more difficult way, I will find it". D@mm. I will look at all my pics and see if I can determine the correct orientation. Thx. G.
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Old 05-28-2011, 11:01 AM   #67
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Great pictures!

I wouldn't be concerned about the little bit of oil under the flywheel bolt. They are oiled when installed. Probably came from the factory that way.

I would, however, consider replacing the disc, even though the thickness is fine. It's hard to tell whether there is oil contamination that could eventually cause the dreaded "slips in high gear under load" syndrome.

The relative orientation of the flywheel, pressure plate, and cover have caused a lot of folks, including me, consternation. In theory, you put the heavy spot on the three pieces at even (120 degree) intervals, or as close as you can get it.

I know people who have disregarded this effort with no apparent ill effects. I wish somebody would come up with a penny tech way to find the heavy spot on all 3 pieces so you don't have to try to guess about all the paint marks, numbers, etc.

Forge on!
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Old 05-28-2011, 11:28 AM   #68
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It just dawned on me you could temporarily mount up the clutch parts to the flywheel using the old fasteners (sans disc and spring) and use a wheel balancing method (bubble or static) to find the best balance combination

Or, I'm full of crap.
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Old 05-28-2011, 03:51 PM   #69
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Grant,
I just started the disassembly to replace a slipping clutch on my 1150 GS. I've got questions on the right and left foot rests.
When I removed the left side the 2 little rubber grommets at the articulating points of the shifter literally fell off. Are these something that need to be replaced?
I've yet to remove the right side and am not clear on where you detached the the brake cylinder. Is it down at the base where there appears to be some sort of clasp right below the adjusting nut? If so can I just dislodge the clasp?
Thanks

Dave
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Old 05-28-2011, 08:07 PM   #70
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Grant,

I don't know if you identified the source of your leak.

But in some cases there is the potential for a leak from a cylinder fastener (circled in red) into the bell housing. I don't know if this is drilled through on all motors, but it has caused people grief (including me) in the past.

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Old 05-28-2011, 08:30 PM   #71
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Well look at that. Good to know about that maybe not so blind hole, Grok.
Looks like they forgot the additional casting needed for the threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by g r a n t View Post


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Old 05-28-2011, 08:35 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PETDOC View Post
Grant,
I just started the disassembly to replace a slipping clutch on my 1150 GS. I've got questions on the right and left foot rests.
When I removed the left side the 2 little rubber grommets at the articulating points of the shifter literally fell off. Are these something that need to be replaced?
I've yet to remove the right side and am not clear on where you detached the the brake cylinder. Is it down at the base where there appears to be some sort of clasp right below the adjusting nut? If so can I just dislodge the clasp?
Thanks

Dave

Just got in. Will get an answer up in a minute.

g
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Old 05-28-2011, 08:53 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PETDOC View Post
Grant,
I just started the disassembly to replace a slipping clutch on my 1150 GS. I've got questions on the right and left foot rests.
When I removed the left side the 2 little rubber grommets at the articulating points of the shifter literally fell off. Are these something that need to be replaced?
I've yet to remove the right side and am not clear on where you detached the the brake cylinder. Is it down at the base where there appears to be some sort of clasp right below the adjusting nut? If so can I just dislodge the clasp?
Thanks

Dave
Hi Dave,

OK, just ran down to the garage and took some pics. Sorry for the background clutter...it's a bit late.

First question:
Yes, those little grommets/bushings/dust seals etc crumbled on mine too. At 10 years old I didn't expect them to hold up. I just ordered a few extra and will reinstall when I button everything back up. I suspect they are to keep the dust and dirt out of the joints.

Second question:
My footrests are apart but it was quite simple, after I scratched my head for a bit. On the right side connecting arm between the rear brake master cylinder and the heel of the brake pedal arm connect via the bottom of the connection rod. There is a small metal clasp that spring clips over the bottom of the rod. When you pop the clip off (the top portion) it will pivot about the axle and then you can pull the axle out. By pulling it out you will disengage the heel of the brake pedal. Here are a few pics. I hope they are clear:




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Old 05-28-2011, 09:10 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grok View Post
Grant,

I don't know if you identified the source of your leak.

But in some cases there is the potential for a leak from a cylinder fastener (circled in red) into the bell housing. I don't know if this is drilled through on all motors, but it has caused people grief (including me) in the past.
Excellent reply! I have been so busy just concentrating on pulling bits apart I have not looked beyond what I originally expected to find. That's great.
That would certainly explain the leak pattern. There is a definite trajectory from that plug. It seems to be puking oil from there. When I was cleaning it I thought it was odd to have this rubbery plug (probably silicone) here.

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Old 05-28-2011, 09:59 PM   #75
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Rear main seal looks good. I think that oil may have come from the trans, unless it smells like engine oil. Look how much has been thrown around on the trans side.
The pressure plate has some hot spots but looks ok. I would also install a new clutch and rear main since you have it apart. Unless its no biggie for you to pulls the trans again.
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