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Old 05-04-2011, 09:59 AM   #16
vortexau
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Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
Electric vehicles have very limited range.
True, but the e-bikes have pedals for extended riding. Good exercise on the flat stretches!
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If you ever have a power outage, like we just did in Northern Alabama for several days, anyone with an electric vehicle would be SOL.


One more reason to Go Green! I do recall cases of fuel strikes & shortages which can (similarly) handicap riders of fuel burners.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:36 AM   #17
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True, but the e-bikes have pedals for extended riding. Good exercise on the flat stretches!


One more reason to Go Green! I do recall cases of fuel strikes & shortages which can (similarly) handicap riders of fuel burners.
Your charging station probably cost more than the scoot you have. You have not addressed the battery usage. How long will your battery last before it needs to be replaced and how much will it cost to replace. If you go 20 miles from home can you get back home on a charge. If I was going to stay no more than a couple miles from home I would consider one but otherwise there are too many draw backs. Most of the E scoots I have read about top out at 25 mph so going up a hill is what 15?
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:51 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by vortexau View Post
True, but the e-bikes have pedals for extended riding. Good exercise on the flat stretches!


One more reason to Go Green! I do recall cases of fuel strikes & shortages which can (similarly) handicap riders of fuel burners.
Bicycles are much more practical if you want to pedal. I suspect those e-bikes are too heavy to be very practical for pedaling. I don't even see any pedals on the scooter in the above picture.

How many electric vehicle owners will invest in a solar power recharging station?

Without electricity gas stations can't pump fuel however a 75MPG scooter and a 5 gallon can of gas will keep you going for quite a while.

Some day electric vehicles may actually be practical for more than a small number of people but for now I'll stick with my gas burning toys
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Old 05-04-2011, 12:06 PM   #19
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legalities

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Originally Posted by tucsondude View Post
look at licsensing and insurance in your town.

here all scooters need plates and insurance, if you are below 50cc and slap pedals on you do not need plates.

what 50cc scooter does not get 100mpg? think you will really notice that extra 20?
Tuscondude makes a good point. As a fellow MD resident, my understanding is that anything over 50cc needs tags, insurance and a motorcycle license to operate. I have a C70 Passport that I periodically commute on (7 miles round trip) and the only thing that I would add is that commuting on a vehicle that tops out at 35mph is not for the faint of heart! ( it is fun though )
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Old 05-04-2011, 07:45 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by 2speed View Post
The difference is really dependent on your commute.

How many miles?

How many hills?

What type of roads?

A moped would be good for 5 miles-10 miles, no hills, backroads. I mean I've done 100+ mile trips on a moped but it's not fantastic. It will be also cheaper to license and insure most likely. Otherwise just get the scooter.

Yes we need a little info on your commute.

Mopeds are great for inner city commuting, on busy roads especially with bike lanes.

A stock moped will be extremely slow, topping out at around 35 MPH or so. Acceleration is also limited. Their advantage is in most states laws are pretty lean on them.

A stock 50 cc scooter won't do much better though. Top speed will be slightly higher, maybe 40-45 MPH on a good model, but acceleration will likely be close or the same.

So if your commutes not to long, in a scooter friendly area, or is on mainly roads with limits no more than 45 MPH either will work.

As for MPG, yea a moped will beat a scooter. I am unsure why, I believe its due to the CVT tranny vs a 1 speed tranny, as the RPMS are always very high to compensate for the poor low end torque. But you'll have better take off.

I'd take a look at the passport type underbones, as these are a mix of both a moped and scooter. No pedals, but they look somewhat like a moped and get over 100 MPG like one.

But they offer many scooter features, and have a 3 or 4 speed tranny.
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Old 05-05-2011, 08:04 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifer View Post
Your charging station probably cost more than the scoot you have. You have not addressed the battery usage. How long will your battery last before it needs to be replaced and how much will it cost to replace. If you go 20 miles from home can you get back home on a charge. If I was going to stay no more than a couple miles from home I would consider one but otherwise there are too many draw backs. Most of the E scoots I have read about top out at 25 mph so going up a hill is what 15?
Not mine. My scoot is a Burgman Exec thus ALL of your questions are moot.
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Old 05-05-2011, 08:52 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
Bicycles are much more practical if you want to pedal. I suspect those e-bikes are too heavy to be very practical for pedaling.
Tsk-Tsk . . . you are so negative you must have spent much of your younger days in a Photographic Darkroom. In stead of "suspecting", why not research weight and performance?
Cruiser Nomad -Weight 23kg and Weight of Battery Assembly 13kg
Quote:
I don't even see any pedals on the scooter in the above picture.
Quite demanding, aren't you? That scooter to which you refer was posted to show the Photovac Panels that its owner deploys when he parks it at work. To "see" pedals on a scooter, refer to my post #13.
Quote:
How many electric vehicle owners will invest in a solar power recharging station?
I don't know. Why don't you ask around EV circles? Here, I'll help you get started:
Tinkerer letting the sunshine in

Quote:
Without electricity gas stations can't pump fuel however a 75MPG scooter and a 5 gallon can of gas will keep you going for quite a while.
After which, what . . . you push because you do not have any pedals?
Mad Max switched to horse power when the gas ran out. The vehicles in the climatic chase scene were supposedly running on methane from pig shi* (although chicken shi* works better)-


Quote:
Some day electric vehicles may actually be practical for more than a small number of people but for now I'll stick with my gas burning toys
"Small number of people" you say? Boy are you out of touch!
Is the Future of Electric Cars in China?

Quote:
largely unknown outside of China, the Shenzhen-based firm BYD is making a headlong push to become a world leader in what some analysts believe could be the industry's post–internal combustion engine future: electric cars.

No fewer than eight electric cars in various stages of development were put on display by Chinese companies. The reason is straightforward enough: China is the world's fastest-growing auto market. So far this year, it is also the world's biggest auto market, with sales through the first quarter running at an annualized rate of 11 million units, compared with 10 million in the U.S. That kind of scale is why some executives believe that China could be the country in which electric vehicles move from the concept stage to mass production.

With a concerted push, the Chinese could leap ahead of the rest of the world. Reilly agrees that Beijing means what it says about boosting the technology. For that reason, he says, "we ought to be very serious about our competitors here in China."
THAT was from Tuesday, Apr. 21, 2009!

Better Place, China Southern Power to promote E.V. battery switch stations in China

Quote:
Thursday, April 28, 2011 By L.J. Polintan
Both companies will focus on joint projects concerning E.V.s and infrastructures in C.S.G. service areas which span five provinces.

China Southern Power Grid Ltd., a state-owned utility, and Better Place, a global electric car services provider, have signed an agreement that will further advance electric cars with switchable batteries in China.



Just this January, the Chinese government has set a plan to create at least 10 million car parking spots for E.V.s by 2020.
Similarly, the State Grid Corporation of China, the largest state-owned power grid company, have set plans to build a total of 2,351 E.V. charging facilities and battery-swap stations, and 220,000 charging poles from 2011 to 2015. The move was made in anticipation of the projected 500,000 E.V.s in the country’s roads by 2015.
There you have it. China, with the world's biggest population is taking the lead. Projections are half a million E.V.s by 2015 (just over three years away), and a plan to create at least 10 million car parking spots for E.V.s by 2020.
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Old 05-05-2011, 09:44 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by btcn View Post
Yes we need a little info on your commute.

Mopeds are great for inner city commuting, on busy roads especially with bike lanes.

A stock moped will be extremely slow, topping out at around 35 MPH or so. Acceleration is also limited. Their advantage is in most states laws are pretty lean on them.

A stock 50 cc scooter won't do much better though. Top speed will be slightly higher, maybe 40-45 MPH on a good model, but acceleration will likely be close or the same.

So if your commutes not to long, in a scooter friendly area, or is on mainly roads with limits no more than 45 MPH either will work.

As for MPG, yea a moped will beat a scooter. I am unsure why, I believe its due to the CVT tranny vs a 1 speed tranny, as the RPMS are always very high to compensate for the poor low end torque. But you'll have better take off.

I'd take a look at the passport type underbones, as these are a mix of both a moped and scooter. No pedals, but they look somewhat like a moped and get over 100 MPG like one.

But they offer many scooter features, and have a 3 or 4 speed tranny.
quite a few hills where im going, but there are side roads with wide shoulders that i plan on riding to. Its for a 20 mile commute. I do it on my bicycle often in the summer. Luckly this area is just traffic filled so people don't go much over 30mph when rush hour is happening.

I like the moped idea because its cheap, the sym symba sounds great but much too expensive for me.
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Old 05-05-2011, 09:58 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by scorch View Post
quite a few hills where im going, but there are side roads with wide shoulders that i plan on riding to. Its for a 20 mile commute. I do it on my bicycle often in the summer. Luckly this area is just traffic filled so people don't go much over 30mph when rush hour is happening.

I like the moped idea because its cheap, the sym symba sounds great but much too expensive for me.

Ok this helps a lot. If you can do it on a bicycle, well you can do it on anything with a motor! Well, that has the power to go up hills.

If traffic is limited to about 30 MPH most of the time, you should be looking for something that tops out at about 35-40 MPH if thats all you want.

If you have a 35-40 MPH top speed, then the bike will cruise nice at 30 MPH and have a little power on reserve. Also if it tops 30 MPH it won't pull that up a hill, but if it tops out at 40 MPH or so it should.

A 50 cc scooter I know will only pull around 28-30 MPH up hills, less for steep ones. A 50 cc moped with single speed? I don't know, the only moped related thing I've had was a 49 cc 4 stroke motorized bicycle kit I built. It had no tranny, it was slow and wouldn't hold 15 MPH up some hills, but I could assist it by pedaling.

You will also want something with good reliability. Most good brand name mopeds and scooters are pretty reliable.

Your looking at spending about $500? You could look into a used Honda Passport type bike on Craigslist. They are usually quite reliable, the only bad is the crappy 6 volt electrical system and points ignition. Just keep it clean and it should be ok. These have 3 or 4 speed transmissions, and will top out right around 45-50 MPH.

You could buy a moped as well. A used one should be good. The good thing is they may not even need registration depending on state, and no motorcycle license is usually needed.
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Old 05-05-2011, 10:07 AM   #25
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ok,,bear with me here,,, i say do it right the first time,at 125 cc
yesterday i seen a 50 cc riding the shoulder during rush hour traffic on a 45 mph 4 lane road... if he had a 125 he would of been going with the flow of traffic. i was scared for the person..
just something to think about.

and the fuel mileage , heck over 70 mpg do you really care about fuel,
good luck.
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Old 05-05-2011, 11:54 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by vortexau View Post

There you have it. China, with the world's biggest population is taking the lead. Projections are half a million E.V.s by 2015 (just three years away), and a plan to create at least 10 million car parking spots for E.V.s by 2020.
If I move to China, I'll get an electric vehicle.......maybe. For right now and where I live and ride, I'll stick with my 75 MPG fossil fuel burner.
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Old 05-05-2011, 06:00 PM   #27
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For more info on the solar scooter conversion, here's the info. I remember reading this years ago and trying to convince my boyfriend that we need to get a Honda Spree so we can make a solar scoot. I think it'd be brilliant for my 4-mile OW commute. We need more engineers mating or we're all doomed.
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Old 05-06-2011, 07:01 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by lifer View Post
How long will your battery last before it needs to be replaced and how much will it cost to replace. If you go 20 miles from home can you get back home on a charge. If I was going to stay no more than a couple miles from home I would consider one but otherwise there are too many draw backs. Most of the E scoots I have read about top out at 25 mph so going up a hill is what 15?
My electric scooter has a 50-mile range on a single charge, a top speed of about 65mph, and plenty of torque to climb a long 10% grade and accelerate all the way up. The lithium batteries are good for about 2,000 charge/discharge cycles, which means they'll last about 100,000 miles (longer than the scooter body, most likely)

And if you have a gas shortage, due to hurricanes hitting the texas coast or a big pipeline failure, you can still get around town without worrying about finding an open gas station. (Besides, if power is out for days, I'm not going in to work, so I might as well get in the car and leave town)

More importantly, electricity costs and the vehicle efficiency mean that I'm paying about a penny per mile for 'fuel'. That's an effective MPG over 300, and that number gets better as the price of gas continues to climb.

Sure, there's clearly some crappy and wimpy electric scoots on the market, but there's also some much better choices. And the products are improving every year.
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Old 05-06-2011, 08:22 AM   #29
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My electric scooter has a 50-mile range on a single charge, a top speed of about 65mph, and plenty of torque to climb a long 10% grade and accelerate all the way up. The lithium batteries are good for about 2,000 charge/discharge cycles, which means they'll last about 100,000 miles (longer than the scooter body, most likely)

And if you have a gas shortage, due to hurricanes hitting the texas coast or a big pipeline failure, you can still get around town without worrying about finding an open gas station. (Besides, if power is out for days, I'm not going in to work, so I might as well get in the car and leave town)

More importantly, electricity costs and the vehicle efficiency mean that I'm paying about a penny per mile for 'fuel'. That's an effective MPG over 300, and that number gets better as the price of gas continues to climb.

Sure, there's clearly some crappy and wimpy electric scoots on the market, but there's also some much better choices. And the products are improving every year.
I just checked out the Current Motor Company Website and your scooter. The performance, range and looks of your scooter are better than I expected. Pretty impressive. I also looked at the price tag....$7999 with the larger battery pack. I don't know what they actually sell for but lets assume you can get one OTD for $8,000. Thats $5800 more than I paid for my S 8. If gas rises to $5 per gallon that $5800 will buy me 1160 gallons of gas. At 75 MPG that will take me 87,000 miles. Of course, I doubt either scooter will actually last 87000 miles. You may be doing your part to advance electric scooter technology by buying it but I'm not sure you will save any money. Also, that 50 mile range limits you to short distance commuting. I occasionaly like to ride more than 50 miles at a time. My longest ride so far has been 201 miles.

Also, your lithium batteries may be good for 2000 charges but if they are like the ones in my cell phone or laptop, they will lose effectiveness over time so that 50 mile range will be less far before 2000 recharges.

Also, that 100,000 mile figure you calculated assumes 50 mile per charge. You will seldom ride 50 miles before you plug it back in. If you have a 26 mile commute, you will recharge it every day after only 26 miles. I'm guessing you will recharge it every day even if you commute is less than 25 miles just to be safe.

I have no doubt that electric vehicle technology will keep improving but right now I don't think it is a practical solution for the most people. To be truly practical there will need to be parking places with a place to plug in available. That way you could ride 50 miles and plug in while you stop for lunch. Of course you will now risk becoming obese due to stopping for four hour lunches
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Old 05-06-2011, 08:48 AM   #30
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. . . To be truly practical there will need to be parking places with a place to plug in available. That way you could ride 50 miles and plug in while you stop for lunch. Of course you will now risk becoming obese due to stopping for four hour lunches
Think more about ONE hour lunches - and less if you have only a short distance home. From a Chinese website for E-Bike Sales (I looked-up Fast Charge)-
Quote:
Product Name :
Fast Charge Electric Scooter, Capacitor Battery Scooter (Zl-B002)Bicycle, E-Bike, Motorcycle, Vehicle, Motorbike, Scooty
Item Code :
37627035
Category:
Electric Bicycle

The Output Power of Motor: 180W

Speed: 25km/h for Europe[32km/h for Noth Americe]

Charge 1h can ride 60km
Those park-n-charge places seem destined to be in place during the coming years in more progressive countries. I even read about subsidies to cut the price somewhere.

I guess that YOU live in a less progressive country which can guzzle its way through limited (or imagined unlimited) fuel supplies.

I have close neighbors with a pair of the smaller E-scooters with pedals. The male has a disability that may preclude him from gaining a licence. The 200W-speed limited bikes like theirs can be ridden in this state without a driver's licence. Distance to supermarket here is 3-4km.
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