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Old 05-06-2011, 09:17 AM   #31
klaviator
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Originally Posted by vortexau View Post
Think more about ONE hour lunches - and less if you have only a short distance home. From a Chinese website for E-Bike Sales (I looked-up Fast Charge)-Those park-n-charge places seem destined to be in place during the coming years in more progressive countries. I even read about subsidies to cut the price somewhere.

I guess that YOU live in a less progressive country which can guzzle its way through limited (or imagined unlimited) fuel supplies.

I have close neighbors with a pair of the smaller E-scooters with pedals. The male has a disability that may preclude him from gaining a licence. The 200W-speed limited bikes like theirs can be ridden in this state without a driver's licence. Distance to supermarket here is 3-4km.
That four hour charge time is from the website of Current motor company website. The e-scooter you listed above can only do 32KPH. I need something capable of at least 50 MPH just to safely leave my Apartment complex. There is no doubt that E -vehicles are practical in some places for some people. For where I live now, and all of the places I have lived in the past, they would not be practical.

As for living in a non-progressive country, in some ways we are but then all countries have their faults and over all I would not choose any other country to live in permanently. I have been to over 35 countries, including several visits to Australia. Your country has it's share of problems too.

One problem here in the U. S. is that much of the country is laid out based on cheap fuel prices. People live out in the suburbs and then have a long drive to the city for work. Many places are not laid out in a way to make walking or bicycling practical or safe. If fuel prices rise enough maybe that will change.

Actually, things are already changing. Many people are moving back closer to the city centers. Personally, I like the way european cities and town are laid out where most things can easily be walked to. I have no problem walking a mile or so. I once walked 4 miles for an ice cream cone when I lived in a small city in Maine where walking was practical. Unfortunately, most Americans walk so slow that walking is not a practical way to get anywhere. I am not anti-electric vehicle. I am just being realistic when I say that at this time they are not practical for the majority of Americans. When that changes due to improvements in technology or because of where I live & work, I will consider getting one.

BTW, the U. S. does subsidize some electric and hybrid vehicles. Despite this they are still generally not all that cost effective. We also subsidize ethanol in our gas which is really major league stupid, buts thats a whole other discussion.
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Old 05-09-2011, 07:04 AM   #32
mboni
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Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
I just checked out the Current Motor Company Website and your scooter. The performance, range and looks of your scooter are better than I expected. Pretty impressive. I also looked at the price tag....$7999 with the larger battery pack. I don't know what they actually sell for but lets assume you can get one OTD for $8,000. Thats $5800 more than I paid for my S 8. If gas rises to $5 per gallon that $5800 will buy me 1160 gallons of gas. At 75 MPG that will take me 87,000 miles. Of course, I doubt either scooter will actually last 87000 miles. You may be doing your part to advance electric scooter technology by buying it but I'm not sure you will save any money. Also, that 50 mile range limits you to short distance commuting. I occasionaly like to ride more than 50 miles at a time. My longest ride so far has been 201 miles.

Also, your lithium batteries may be good for 2000 charges but if they are like the ones in my cell phone or laptop, they will lose effectiveness over time so that 50 mile range will be less far before 2000 recharges.

Also, that 100,000 mile figure you calculated assumes 50 mile per charge. You will seldom ride 50 miles before you plug it back in. If you have a 26 mile commute, you will recharge it every day after only 26 miles. I'm guessing you will recharge it every day even if you commute is less than 25 miles just to be safe.

I have no doubt that electric vehicle technology will keep improving but right now I don't think it is a practical solution for the most people. To be truly practical there will need to be parking places with a place to plug in available. That way you could ride 50 miles and plug in while you stop for lunch. Of course you will now risk becoming obese due to stopping for four hour lunches
Good analysis, but there's a few items to add in.

My bike actually cost about half the listed price: There's a $2k discount from the mfgr. for test pilots, a 10% federal tax rebate, and a 20% State of GA tax rebate. And you also need to add in cost of maintenance when you compare gas vs electric, I have no oil changes, spark plugs, or air filter to worry about. And electric motors are simply more reliable, and you don't even have a transmission, so the occasional more expensive repair is far less likely. You can still do lots of miles on your little gas scooter for the same cost, but it's closer than your initial numbers show.

The 2000 charge cycles is for a full discharge, but it's dramatically better if you don't go all the way to empty. I don't know the exact numbers, but you might double that if you only drain the battery to 50%. So you pretty much get 100k miles no matter how long your daily rides. Also, you really need to leave some headroom in your battery for detours and such, so a 50 mile battery is good for about 40 miles of expected daily use. This also accommodates reduced range as the battery ages, which is probably more significant than the charge/discharge effect.

Yes, this bike is only good for shorter range commutes, but that still covers the vast majority of people. And a mid-day recharge makes it good for medium distance commuters. For long rage trips, well, I take my SilverWing.

If you have an hour lunch, you can add about 1kWh to your battery, which actually gives you about 10 more miles of driving range. And an electric scooter uses a standard 110v AC outlet, no need for a special high-voltage charging station like a car might want. There's no reason not to take a partial charge when you can, but I haven't needed it yet. I have enough range to get to work and back, get to dinner and back, and then do an errand to the store, and still be within a 40 mile day.

Not for everybody, agreed, but probably good enough for more people than you'd think. And even if you aren't strictly saving money vs a small gas bike, you're also getting cool technology and emitting less pollution, which has some extra value for some people.
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Old 05-10-2011, 05:56 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by mboni View Post
Good analysis, but there's a few items to add in.

My bike actually cost about half the listed price: There's a $2k discount from the mfgr. for test pilots, a 10% federal tax rebate, and a 20% State of GA tax rebate. And you also need to add in cost of maintenance when you compare gas vs electric, I have no oil changes, spark plugs, or air filter to worry about. And electric motors are simply more reliable, and you don't even have a transmission, so the occasional more expensive repair is far less likely. You can still do lots of miles on your little gas scooter for the same cost, but it's closer than your initial numbers show.

The 2000 charge cycles is for a full discharge, but it's dramatically better if you don't go all the way to empty. I don't know the exact numbers, but you might double that if you only drain the battery to 50%. So you pretty much get 100k miles no matter how long your daily rides. Also, you really need to leave some headroom in your battery for detours and such, so a 50 mile battery is good for about 40 miles of expected daily use. This also accommodates reduced range as the battery ages, which is probably more significant than the charge/discharge effect.

Yes, this bike is only good for shorter range commutes, but that still covers the vast majority of people. And a mid-day recharge makes it good for medium distance commuters. For long rage trips, well, I take my SilverWing.

If you have an hour lunch, you can add about 1kWh to your battery, which actually gives you about 10 more miles of driving range. And an electric scooter uses a standard 110v AC outlet, no need for a special high-voltage charging station like a car might want. There's no reason not to take a partial charge when you can, but I haven't needed it yet. I have enough range to get to work and back, get to dinner and back, and then do an errand to the store, and still be within a 40 mile day.

Not for everybody, agreed, but probably good enough for more people than you'd think. And even if you aren't strictly saving money vs a small gas bike, you're also getting cool technology and emitting less pollution, which has some extra value for some people.
It looks like electric scooters have progressed further than I thought. I'm sure that as the numbers produced increases, the price will come down. Also, if there are enough electric vehicles, the nember of parking spots with plug ins will increase. Even if your scooter can plug into any outlet, how often can you park somewhere near an outlet?

Unfortunately, electric scooters, like their gas powered cousins, will probably never become that popular in this country where people are obsessed with airbags, cup holders, and multiple electronic gizmos to keep the occupants from being bored. I hope I'm wrong.
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Old 05-10-2011, 06:18 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
Also, if there are enough electric vehicles, the nember of parking spots with plug ins will increase. Even if your scooter can plug into any outlet, how often can you park somewhere near an outlet?
Yep, more good points, and it's something of a chicken and egg problem. Personally, I think the idea of charging while at a store or local restaurant is not likely to happen, since you aren't there very long and the spaces may get taken quickly. And if you can't count on getting a charge, you'd better not need one. Charging stations need to exist at people's homes and work locations, where availability is predictable. The parking deck at my office has lights everywhere, so there's plenty of power, all they need is to pull down some outlets. Interestingly, using a standard 110v outlet may be a problem in the future, since all the charging stations for cars are based on a funky plug with 220v power for fast charging, so e-scooters may get left out.
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Old 05-10-2011, 07:01 AM   #35
MacNoob
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Honda C70 Passport...

* 82+ are 12v not 6V; most people think the 6V bikes are a little faster (carb/intake changes)
* my 26,000km '82 will do 45mph on the flat any time... I've seen 50 (chin on speedo, feet on passenger pegs...) and I'm 6'3"/200
* good for 100+ mpg wide open
* 70cc is a motorcycle here... $500+ annual insurance!
* start here http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Honda-C70/
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