ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Face plant
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-15-2011, 02:25 PM   #16
Some Mook
Goin' Down Slow
 
Some Mook's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Jumping Branch, WV
Oddometer: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by tserts View Post
I think I would have fared the same, coming too hot on a corner and locking the rear is something that you don't get to practice often, for good reasons...

Instinctively I ease off the brake when it locks and doing differently under panic seems too hard, I will try to keep it in mind but I think I'll end up flying if it comes to that...

You came through relatively unscathed, put it behind you and learn from it. Thanks for sharing it.
Actually, it is something that needs to be practiced to get your primordial lizzard-brain in with the program.

It's all well and good to think about how to react, but in a panic situation, it's not the thinking part of your brain that necessarily remains in full control.

Practice intentionally locking up the rear wheel in a straight line, in a controlled environment - deserted parking lot or similar.

Start at low speeds, then gradually work up to higher speeds (I sure wouldn't want to start at the 50mph reported by the OP) and focus on keeping the rear wheel locked until completely stopped.

Practice in the wet, or find a gravel patch if you have trouble getting the rear tire to break traction.

Once the lizzard-brain gets used to the feeling of a locked rear wheel and associates a response of mashing the rear brake pedal harder to the situation, you will have better odds of successfully reacting out on the road.

FWIW, in addition to my hard-braking and obstacle avoidance practice sessions, I also deliberately look for front brake lock-up on dirt and gravel situations, just to practice the feeling of where the front will lock and also to practice dumping the front brake off in a big hurry when I reach that point.

Of course it is also helpful to approach unknown curves and corners with a thought in mind of 'Enter too slow = exit Faster, Enter too fast = exit Dead'. The road isn't a race track, and can be a very harsh and un-forgiving place to try and gain experience reacting to mistakes that could have been avoided through the simple expedient of slowing down sooner.
__________________
"Ah, women. They make the highs higher and the lows more frequent."
http://www.ridingwv.com/ (Not My Site)

Wolf
Some Mook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2011, 06:41 PM   #17
Honkylicious OP
sup?
 
Honkylicious's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Redneckistan, CSA
Oddometer: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Some Mook View Post
Actually, it is something that needs to be practiced to get your primordial lizzard-brain in with the program.

It's all well and good to think about how to react, but in a panic situation, it's not the thinking part of your brain that necessarily remains in full control.

Practice intentionally locking up the rear wheel in a straight line, in a controlled environment - deserted parking lot or similar.

Start at low speeds, then gradually work up to higher speeds (I sure wouldn't want to start at the 50mph reported by the OP) and focus on keeping the rear wheel locked until completely stopped.

Practice in the wet, or find a gravel patch if you have trouble getting the rear tire to break traction.

Once the lizzard-brain gets used to the feeling of a locked rear wheel and associates a response of mashing the rear brake pedal harder to the situation, you will have better odds of successfully reacting out on the road.

FWIW, in addition to my hard-braking and obstacle avoidance practice sessions, I also deliberately look for front brake lock-up on dirt and gravel situations, just to practice the feeling of where the front will lock and also to practice dumping the front brake off in a big hurry when I reach that point.

Of course it is also helpful to approach unknown curves and corners with a thought in mind of 'Enter too slow = exit Faster, Enter too fast = exit Dead'. The road isn't a race track, and can be a very harsh and un-forgiving place to try and gain experience reacting to mistakes that could have been avoided through the simple expedient of slowing down sooner.
I really don't see how locking up the brake in a parking lot would anything at all other than eat tires, since i have locked up brakes in many situations. Many times people pull out in front of you, cut you off, deer jumps out in front of you...................
In the past 2 years I have about 8000 miles logged on these roads that are close to home. I'm just used to having better tires for the road. I started slowing down way earlier than I thought I would have needed to. The tires I usually run do a much better job at braking. I tried to compensate as best I could for the tires I was running(this turn would have been easy with TKCs) but I only had about 400 miles of mountain road experience with these tires over the past couple weeks.
If I would have kept the rear wheel locked up until a complete stop, my stop would have been face first into a tree, or off the side of a mountain.Real life situations can be much different then what you learn in class. In many situations in my daily life I must make hard choices, and "practicing" helps, but doesn't replace experience. I just want to learn from my experience, and hope to help people that don't wear ATGATT will reconsider what can happen.
__________________
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good.
Honkylicious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2011, 07:07 PM   #18
NJ-Brett
Brett
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Southern New Jersey
Oddometer: 6,192
Hey, glad you made it through without injury!

I don't think its impossible to lock and unlock the rear brake on the street without crashing.
I used to do it all the time, lock the rear up, kick it out a bit, get it back in line and unlock, just like dirt riding.
It was fun, but I am sure its rough on tires.
I never tried it in a turn, and don't think I will...
I am not sure I would do it in the wet, I don't fool around much on wet roads...
NJ-Brett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2011, 10:35 AM   #19
chippertheripper
motorcycle junkie
 
chippertheripper's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: s.e. mass
Oddometer: 1,970
My .02, don't practice locking the rear at all. Do practice not using the rear brake and stomping a downshift. I road-race a motard (not foot out supermoto style) and never touch my rear brake. As a dirt rider I'm familiar with the slide, point, and shoot, but that's not to be used on the street. Front brake, all the time, use the rear for the dirt. Or the stoplight.

Flame on naysayers:
__________________
Cliff's Cycles KTM Woodcraft-CFM
LRRS 560ex (retired), PSTR b-vet 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Night Falcon View Post
Life is too short to crash on a bike you don't respect
chippertheripper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2011, 04:35 PM   #20
Honkylicious OP
sup?
 
Honkylicious's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Redneckistan, CSA
Oddometer: 844
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by chippertheripper View Post
My .02, don't practice locking the rear at all. Do practice not using the rear brake and stomping a downshift. I road-race a motard (not foot out supermoto style) and never touch my rear brake. As a dirt rider I'm familiar with the slide, point, and shoot, but that's not to be used on the street. Front brake, all the time, use the rear for the dirt. Or the stoplight.

Flame on naysayers:
Thanks for the advice. I'm still learning from this mishap.
__________________
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good.
Honkylicious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2011, 05:37 PM   #21
DirtDabber
cultural illiterate
 
DirtDabber's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Way, Way North GA
Oddometer: 7,641
I picked up a nasty habit of dragging the rear brake through the turn when I had my KLR's to settle the rear suspension. I had to adjust my riding every time I got on one of the other bikes. There is only so much you can learn in a parking lot. 215 is an easy road to pick up too much speed coming into a corner.
__________________
.

I wonder where that road goes?
DirtDabber is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2011, 07:27 PM   #22
chippertheripper
motorcycle junkie
 
chippertheripper's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: s.e. mass
Oddometer: 1,970
The downshift will do the same thing. It might cause you to back it in a little (depending on corner speed, gearing, and lean, yadda yadda), but it'll eliminate the locking of the tire. If it slides (it'll feel alot like taking a corner in the dirt) it'll gradually regain traction as the rpms and speed come down. This is just one approach in a sea of techniques. Find what works for you and learn it as best ya can.

Also, just tipping it in, and trying to rail the turn will work more times than you think. The motorcycle doesn't want to crash, we make it crash.
__________________
Cliff's Cycles KTM Woodcraft-CFM
LRRS 560ex (retired), PSTR b-vet 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Night Falcon View Post
Life is too short to crash on a bike you don't respect
chippertheripper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2011, 07:33 PM   #23
Dan Diego
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: San Diego, CA
Oddometer: 648
Glad to hear you're OK; could've been a lot worse.

I did the exact same thing (right hander at 50 MPH), on a slightly bigger bike in March. ATGATT, yup.

I have Dunlops that I'm not crazy about. They're long-lasting tires that break loose too much.

It was totally operator error on my part.

Again, glad you were wearing the right gear and walked away from it.
__________________
Triumph Rocket III Touring, KTM 990 ADV

When I finished high school, I wanted to take all my graduation money and buy myself a motorcycle. But my mom said no. See, she had a brother who died in a horrible motorcycle accident when he was 18. And I could just have his motorcycle.
Dan Diego is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2011, 07:46 AM   #24
Autocracy
KLR = Trials bike?
 
Autocracy's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Redwood City, CA
Oddometer: 534
From my own experience, I disagree about riding out a locked rear on pavement. I had a cruiser crash behind me just outside of Deal's Gap. He panicked when I applied my brakes, and he locked his brakes. He flipped when he hit the handlebar bump-stops. As the rear remained locked and didn't come into line with the front, he naturally compensated by turning the handlebars. When the handlebars ran out of room, he passed me while not straddling his motorcycle. Judging from the damage to his bike, it was a high-side.

While my Concours 14 has ABS (and I'm generally grateful for it), my Ninja 250 and KLR 650 didn't / don't. I've locked the rear on the Ninja and the KLR a fair bit on pavement. I've only owned the KLR for less than 2 months, but due to the Connie's especially stiff rear brake pedal I'm sure I've locked the KLR's rear at least 5 times, maybe 10. Slightly adjusting my foot up to regain braking at the threshold has always resulted favorably.
__________________
Only have a Concours 14 after riding to California from Maine. Need to find a place to ride with knobbies. Need to get a bike with knobbies.

SIG: HUP
Autocracy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2011, 08:15 AM   #25
muskieken
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Buffalo NY
Oddometer: 175
thanks for sharing your story, it help's me make up my mind that when i get a street only road bike.... it's going to have abs.
been riding my little dirt/street bike and with it being so light,locking up the rear is very common.
__________________
crf230l
st1300
muskieken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2011, 09:51 AM   #26
PurpleGang
Fighting TIGER
 
PurpleGang's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: New Orleans/S. Mississippi
Oddometer: 5
Question If the KLR's brakes can lock the wheel...

...how is it that the BRAKES are weak. Sure, ABS is a great feature and KLRs don't have it. But, other than that, locking the brakes is the best a brake can do. The rest is on the tire..., and of course the driver to NOT lock the brakes..., feather things a little, maybe.

Sure a rider has to squeeze or step on the brakes harder than if it had bigger pads, two pots or more effective disks, but, then lock ups would still be lock ups and they would still happen but with less effort.

What more can KLR brakes do?
PurpleGang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2011, 03:29 PM   #27
chippertheripper
motorcycle junkie
 
chippertheripper's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: s.e. mass
Oddometer: 1,970
Provie better feel. To answer your question bluntly.
Obviously, the biggest part of the link is the rider here.
__________________
Cliff's Cycles KTM Woodcraft-CFM
LRRS 560ex (retired), PSTR b-vet 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Night Falcon View Post
Life is too short to crash on a bike you don't respect
chippertheripper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2011, 11:34 AM   #28
Autocracy
KLR = Trials bike?
 
Autocracy's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Redwood City, CA
Oddometer: 534
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleGang View Post
...how is it that the BRAKES are weak. Sure, ABS is a great feature and KLRs don't have it. But, other than that, locking the brakes is the best a brake can do. The rest is on the tire..., and of course the driver to NOT lock the brakes..., feather things a little, maybe.

Sure a rider has to squeeze or step on the brakes harder than if it had bigger pads, two pots or more effective disks, but, then lock ups would still be lock ups and they would still happen but with less effort.

What more can KLR brakes do?
The KLR's front brake is underpowered. The rear has a much higher ratio as compared to it, and is easily able to lock the tire. In a road / high traction situation, the majority of braking power should come from the front brake. In an off-road or lower traction scenario, you have less weight transfer before the front loses traction, so the rear can apply more braking power. You don't really notice the weak front brake when off-roading, but you curse it when you want to panic stop on the street.
__________________
Only have a Concours 14 after riding to California from Maine. Need to find a place to ride with knobbies. Need to get a bike with knobbies.

SIG: HUP
Autocracy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2011, 12:00 PM   #29
Honkylicious OP
sup?
 
Honkylicious's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Redneckistan, CSA
Oddometer: 844
Cool2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autocracy View Post
The KLR's front brake is underpowered. The rear has a much higher ratio as compared to it, and is easily able to lock the tire. In a road / high traction situation, the majority of braking power should come from the front brake. In an off-road or lower traction scenario, you have less weight transfer before the front loses traction, so the rear can apply more braking power. You don't really notice the weak front brake when off-roading, but you curse it when you want to panic stop on the street.
Amen to that! Hind sight is 20/20
__________________
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good.
Honkylicious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2011, 12:16 PM   #30
MacNoob
Beastly Adventurer
 
MacNoob's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: The mosquito-y Center of Canada
Oddometer: 1,524
Good to hear you got out of it without injury.

But let me be the first to say...

You shoulda laid 'er down

So what happens when you're on a bike with linked brakes like my Gl1200? If you're braking hard enough to lock the rear, you're pretty hard on the fronts too. Ride it out locked with lots of front brake happening too?
MacNoob is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 01:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014