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Old 02-12-2014, 09:50 PM   #1
flyfishbc OP
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Question triumph 800 xc valves ????

Maybe some one out there can help out, I'm fairly mechanical, but am finding the idea of checking valves a bit intimidating. Has anyone, or can anyone do a video or photo essay of the procedure? I do have the shop manual, but this is one job I have never done. thanks
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:56 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfishbc View Post
Maybe some one out there can help out, I'm fairly mechanical, but am finding the idea of checking valves a bit intimidating. Has anyone, or can anyone do a video or photo essay of the procedure? I do have the shop manual, but this is one job I have never done. thanks
I watched mine get done by a mate the other week and it was easy for him but looked complicated to me. Mine had done 13500 miles (around 23,000 kms) and were all at the low end of tolerances and very consistent. A Triumph mechanic and others in the know have since asked me why I even bothered. These things just don't run out of spec - apparently!!
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:15 PM   #3
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just wanna check, better safe than sorry.
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Old 02-12-2014, 11:40 PM   #4
Aussie Trev
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Originally Posted by flyfishbc View Post
just wanna check, better safe than sorry.
That was my thought too......just saying!
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Old 02-14-2014, 04:59 AM   #5
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Worth checking . I had to replace 10 of 12 in mine when I checked at 20,000 k .Helps to have narrow feeler gauges . I zip tied the timing chain to the cam sprockets and there was enough room to move the cams out of the way and not upset the timing . Exhaust clearance was wider than other bikes I've worked on .325-.375 inlet .15-.20 if I remember right . Check first .
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Old 02-16-2014, 11:00 AM   #6
flyfishbc OP
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thanks, kinda lookin for a bit of a how to video or picture essay. i,m pretty sure i can do it myself, but seeing it done always helps. changing tires was kinda the same , till i helped a friend, now i mount and balance my own all the time. $500 to check the valves makes me wanna figure this out , and do it myself too.
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Old 02-16-2014, 11:42 AM   #7
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Not a hard job, just time consuming. A lot of stuff to remove just to get to the valves.



Exhausts a bit tight but still good. This usually seems to be the case. 28k miles



If you have the service manual and the tools go for it..
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Old 02-16-2014, 12:22 PM   #8
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If you can get the fuel tank off you're over half way there. The rest of it really isn't too hard.

My only tips would be,

Read that portion of service before starting the service. Then read it again. Twice. Then read it once more. The reason I say this is because stumbling into a bunch of unexpected stuff in the middle of a somewhat tricky procedure can be a little unnerving and can shake your confidence.

Have the right tools and parts ready and available before you start. Walking away from this project and having to order parts and buy tools is very disruptive to your concentration. Focus is good.

I bought the engine service kit from Triumph but it did NOT include the timing chain cover gasket. You will probably need it...especially if you don't have it. If the valves are out of spec, the cams need to come out. This means you need a torque wrench that can measure (iirc) 10lb/ft.

You're not saving much money doing it yourself, but you are getting a bunch of quality tools for free.

Feeler gauges...I had a helluva hard time with this part. Make sure what you're feeling is the actual clearance and not the friction generated by stacking up a bunch of blades and folding 'em over. I recommend a set of bent/curved feeler gauges.

Honda dealers have the shims. Suzuki does too.

I keep an old toothbrush in my tool box. It's very handy for a lot of things. On the XC, I jammed the plastic handle behind the cam chain tensioner blade to keep tension on the timing chain. Worked perfectly. Do NOT remove it until the cam ladder is bolted down or the cams may jump backward a little bit. Timing these things is really a complete non-issue. Just keep an eye on those dots and don't rotate the crank.

I used a 16" long screwdriver to prop the fuel tank up. This way I could run the bike and do the throttle body sync without the extended fuel line.
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Old 02-18-2014, 08:58 AM   #9
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For whatever it's worth, my Tiger now has over 50,000 miles on it and has not needed a valve adjustment. I do need to check them before the season kicks off this spring, but I expect they're still in spec.

--mark
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Old 02-19-2014, 05:34 AM   #10
Wandering Dane
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One more for whatever it's worth:

Valve check on my 2012 Roadie at 14K miles:

All intake valves were in the middle of the tolerance, 5 of the 6 exhaust valves were tight.

Got the shims, side cover gasket and tensioner O-ring and gasket from Bike Bandit. Decent service and prices but why no confirming e-mails from BB?
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Old 02-21-2014, 09:26 PM   #11
flyfishbc OP
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thanks guys, just have to give it a go, i guess,
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Old 02-22-2014, 03:51 AM   #12
Wandering Dane
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Tank removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfishbc View Post
thanks guys, just have to give it a go, i guess,
For me, one of the challenging tasks was removal of the gas tank, particularly disconnecting the fuel line. This video was helpful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBsuUqPoF2M

Good luck.
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Old 02-22-2014, 07:42 AM   #13
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just doing mine now. 2 exhaust valve shims were out. so, since i'm in there anyways, i'm putting them all back to the middle of their spec. only 4 will stay as they were. i am questioning the factory manual on the setting of 5nm torque for the cam ladder bolts. they felt tighter than that when i loosened them the first time. does anyone know if this is right?


EDIT I'm an idiot. I turned the page and all was revealed.
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panorton screwed with this post 02-22-2014 at 11:05 AM
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Old 02-22-2014, 03:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wandering Dane View Post
For me, one of the challenging tasks was removal of the gas tank, particularly disconnecting the fuel line. This video was helpful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBsuUqPoF2M

Good luck.
The tank does not have to come off the check the valves. Neither do the throttle bodies which I think is also stated in the manual. Prop up the tank out of the way and move the R/R in order to get the cam cover out.
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Old 06-10-2014, 11:29 AM   #15
IronJackWhitton
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Maybe not, Swimmer, but it sure as heck is a lot easier with the tank out of the way.

I did mine a few months back and found 4 or 5 were a bit too tight. I've never done this before but the bike runs great, and everything went smoothly.

Triumph offers an engine service kit that has all the bits you need (except shims) for a full 20k service.

Here's my post on Alberta Dual Sport about my valve clearances (Pic Heavy):

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Back at it today, and it was time to get to the meat of this service: the valve clearances.







Off comes the cam cover, and I got to measuring. Unfortunately, the only feeler gauges I had were SAE, and the Triumph is spec'd for metrics. However, with a quick conversion I was able to figure out that I had a problem. All of my exhaust valves were consistently tight -- registering in at 0.3048 mm when they should be between 0.325 and 0.375 mm. Now, I'm sure with more precise tools I could have measured these more accurately, and no doubt not all of them are exactly the same. But, the way I did it (and much time with Google-Fu says this is the acceptable way) is to go through my gauges until I find one that doesn't fit. Then, go down one size to one that does fit, and this is your measurement None of my exhaust valves would allow the 0.013 feeler gauge, but all of them would fit the 0.012 gauge.



I figured since I'm dealing with a spec range of 2/100ths of an inch, this would get me close enough for my shim calculations.



I also noted that two of my intake valves were a bit tighter than I would like -- they were within spec at 0.127 mm (spec is between 0.1 and 0.2).



So, with my feeler gauges felt up about as much as they would go, it was time to finish taking the cams off so I could get at the shims, which are located underneath the buckets, which are under the cam lobes. To do that, I needed to take off the cam cover (which actually worked out; on my last clearance check I dropped a shim right down the side of the cam chain; popping off this cover allowed the shim to fall right out)



With the cover off, I wedged the chain between the crankcase and the tensioner. I had to remove the tensioner in order to ensure I could get the cams out.









Off comes the chain tensioner!









And then off comes the "cam ladder" as it's called; at this step before loosening the ladder I also used a grease pencil to mark the chain and the cam, to ensure it would be a bit more closely lined up when I reinstall everything.







One by one, I removed the buckets. The shims tend to stick to the underside of the buckets but I wasn't taking any chances, so I put the plugs loosely back in, just in case one of the shims fell out. Murphy's law would dictate they would fall RIGHT down the plug hole, so thankfully, I thought ahead. Of course because I did so, it wasn't needed. Ah well!









And measure the shims!









After which I got in touch with my inner Grade 7 student and figured out my shim sizes:









As it happens, with the way the math worked out, I needed some shims that were mostly the same size. Triumph uses shims that are sold in 0.025 increments, and I need six 2.45 mm shims, one 1.5mm shim, and one 2.425 shims. I hope Echo is open on the holiday tomorrow but if not, I'll find something else to keep me amused!


Part 2:


So, today was a pretty exciting way to spend a few hours. I knew I needed shims, and I knew what sizes I required. I also needed a gasket and, as per the owner's manual, the Cam Chain cover bolts all need to be replaced once torqued.



So, off I went to Echo Cycle. Thankfully, they had the gasket in stock, but when it came to the shims and the bolts, no dice. I found that remarkably odd -- the young man at the counter rather cooly said "We can't keep everything in stock, you know", which of course I understand. But valve adjustments are incredibly common on bikes, so for a bike shop not to have any is strange. I don't expect a Grocery store to have every food item in stock either, but it sure as hell normally has milk and eggs!



Alas, those shims and bolts were one week away, and I didn't want to leave Hobbes in Open Heart Surgery mode for that long. So my next stop on this quest was to call Argylle. I explained my situation to the parts lady on the phone and asked if she had any 7.48 mm diameter shims.



"What bike is it for?"



"It's for my Triumph."



"Oh we don't deal with Triumph".



"I know...the thing is the shims are pretty common, they are used in Kawasaki, Yamaha, and maybe even KTMs"



"Oh we don't deal in those either"



"Yeah I know...Okay... I'll just come by"



So with that chat out of the way, I went to Argylle. There was some confusion at the desk that I'd be buying "ducati" shims for my "triumph" but soon enough we had a shim kit cracked open for me to take my pick. Sadly, they only had 3 of the 6 that I needed of a certain size, so once again it was zipping across town to Alberta Cycle. They saved the day with a huge selection of shims in all sizes, and to boot, they were $5 bucks per shim cheaper than Echo, and $3 per shim cheaper than Argyle.



So, I got my shims, and Alberta Cycle gets my vote for these kinds of parts as they seem to keep stock on a LOT of stuff. Nothing against the other two, and I do try to spread my money around, but it is nice to know who stocks what!



So I returned home (after a few more time-sucking detours) and got to work on the Shim Swapping.



Shims! So many shims! All ready to go:







With my measurements in hand, I began swapping the old shims out for the new ones, one by one. Here you can see a bucket removed, and the tiny shim sitting in the middle of the valve spring. Right next to it you can see the bucket still in place. To avoid confusion, I did them one at a time -- all it takes is an errant cat to leap up on the work surface for everything to go to hell pretty quick.







Honestly this didn't take all that long -- I was completely done this entire part in about 20 minutes. One of the key parts is lube and lots off it. These buckets are made from very thin metal, and as such if they were to be dry when the motor was first started, they could easily be damaged. And so, as per the workshop manual, I made my own slurry of assembly lube, a 50-50 mixture of clean motor oil and Molybdenum Disulphate Grease. I wasn't thrilled with the kind of grease I found -- it was cheap Canadian Tire brand -- but it met the specs so I made this delicious little milkshake. Don't tell my wife but I used some of her canning materials to store the extras!











With that out of the way, it was time to reinstall the Cam Ladder, which was tricky. Using my previously placed marks on the cams, it was easy enough to align the chain, but it kept popping out of line due to slack in the chain whenever I would start to tighten down the ladder.



Eventually, I wedged the chain into tension and was able to torque down the ladder.







With the cam ladder reattached, it was time to reassemble the Chain Tensioner. This is controlled by oil pressure so in order to re-insert it you must take the springs out, empty the oil, and reset it. Not very difficult and only takes about 3 minutes:









That is all I managed for tonight on the engine -- I plan to re-measure the whole thing tomorrow, and turn the engine over manually a few times to ensure I have the timing set right and there isn't any valve-valve contact. There shouldn't be but better safe than sorry.



Earlier I mentioned one of the fuel rail screws had a head stripped out on me -- it was a huge pain. While I was shopping for my gasket and shims today, I tried to find these screws, and to my dismay, they actually aren't available as individual parts. You need to buy a whole new fuel rail ($230 bucks or so) in order to get those screws. So, I said "Screw that" no pun intended and decided to make my own.



Here's the original:











First, with a bolt of the appropriate thread and pitch, I measured how long the threaded piece above was, and then taped off the new screw at exactly that distance:







Then, a little Liquid Engineering -- the large, unthreaded part of the original really just acts as a metal bushing, so I used my old faithful metal putty (I didn't go for the full Titanium this time, just a standard steel reinforced epoxy) to build up a new bushing on the new bolt.







With that, I simply piled it onto the threads and started steadily rotating the bolt. The rotating motion caused the putty to spread out roughly evenly, and this stuff set up hard in about 6 minutes. It cures fully in 10 hours or so. With the cylinder set, I took a sharp box cutter and trimmed off the taped-over area.







And after a test fit before it cured to much, I had myself a replica of the original. It's certainly not as pretty, but as far as I'm concerned the old adage "if its stupid but it works, it ain't stupid" applies here. Also, damn you Triumph for designing such a stupid, stupid part and not making it available for all to buy.



It looks a little wavy in one part and it is, but it fits in nice and snugly and will hold the fuel rail just fine.







Tomorrow I'll be (hopefully) buttoning everything back up after a final check, and then taking a break. I still need to flush the coolant, brake fluid, and service the head stock. After that, a few basic checks on things like wheel bearings and I should be ready to roll for spring!



_____________

Hope that helps, sorry I didn't see this earlier!
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