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Old 05-17-2011, 06:00 PM   #16
gumshoe4
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I don't know about Suzuki, but Honda is doing a revamp of the SWing. It's called the T600 and I believe it's already available in Europe. Here's a link:

http://hondamc2011.com/bikes/sw-t600-12/

Here's a photo. The T600 looks a lot like the current SWing, but I believe the dash, gauges, seat and possibly engine have been updated or redesigned. Do some surfing and see what you find!
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Old 05-17-2011, 06:05 PM   #17
gumshoe4
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If you read French, here's a more complete report:

http://www.scooter-station.com/Honda...-ABS-2011.html

The front end has been redesigned and now has dual headlights, rather than stacked headlights.

The dash has definitely been redesigned as well and I like it better than the dash on my SWing. Here's a picture:
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Old 05-17-2011, 06:11 PM   #18
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Incidentally, CBolling, thanks for the naked photos...they really help visualize how the bikes work...
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Old 05-17-2011, 06:52 PM   #19
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I always thought it was.

So is it or not? I really can't tell from the photo, as I can't actually see the engine.
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Old 05-17-2011, 06:54 PM   #20
gec343 OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gumshoe4 View Post
If you read French, here's a more complete report:

http://www.scooter-station.com/Honda...-ABS-2011.html

The front end has been redesigned and now has dual headlights, rather than stacked headlights.

The dash has definitely been redesigned as well and I like it better than the dash on my SWing. Here's a picture:

Thanks much for that link. Hopefully, they bring that scooter to the U.S. It looks very interesting. I am addicted to Honda quality!!!!
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Old 05-17-2011, 07:13 PM   #21
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I just noticed that the redline on the tach of the T600 is 9500 rpm. That's 1000 rpm higher than my SWing, suggesting that the T600 has another 1000 rpm of headroom and a broader powerband. That would be cool indeed...
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Old 05-17-2011, 07:55 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btcn View Post
I always thought it was.

So is it or not? I really can't tell from the photo, as I can't actually see the engine.
The Silverwing engine is a 600cc parallel twin mounted to the frame. In other markets there is also a 400cc parallel twin mounted to the frame.

The Yamaha Tamx is a 500cc twin mounted to the frame.

The Burgman 650 is a parellel twin mounted to the frame.
The Burgman 400 is a single mounted to the swingarm.
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:01 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btcn View Post
I always thought it was.

So is it or not? I really can't tell from the photo, as I can't actually see the engine.
I am not a mechanic, so this is my best explanation. On a standard scooter, the engine hangs from the frame but is statically mounted to the swingarm so that as the swingarm pivots so does the engine.

On the silverwing, the engine is mounted to the frame at multiple points. The swingarm is attached to the engine, but it rotates independently of the engine. If you look at a picture of the right side of the silver wing, you can see where the swingarm connects to the engine. It is not bolted directly to it, but is coupled with it with a bearing so that the swingarm can rotate.

This creates a hybrid where the engine's weight is carried by the frame and does not effect the suspension as much as a traditional scooter. Because it still uses a CVT, the engine is mounted further towards the back of the bike than on a TMAX or Burgman that use a transfer assembly to supply power to the final transmission.

I don't have the info for weight distribution of the different scooters but I know that the Swing is extremely well balanced in comparison to the 400-class machines with swingarm mounts, that I have personally test-ridden. Even 250-class Kymcos that I have tested start to suffer with the amount of weight moving with the swingarm.

I would assume weight evens out some with the simplicity of the Swing's tranny and the fact that the gas tank is forward mounted.

If anyone knows where I may be wrong, please let me know, this is from my mostly lay observation.
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Old 05-17-2011, 09:00 PM   #24
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OK I got it. It just looked like it was swing arm mounted to me, because of the huge long CVT attached to the wheel and the swing arm that actually has a bearing.

It does seem a few people get it confused. It did seem kinda funky to have a 600 cc twin going up and down like that though. I know the Burgman 400 does have the swing arm mounted motor, but its only a single and is lighter.
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Old 05-18-2011, 08:33 AM   #25
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OMG!!! Am I the only one who thinks a naked SW, Burg or TMax would be awsume?
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Old 05-18-2011, 10:12 AM   #26
aidanpryde18
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I know it's not really a touring scooter, but I just want Honda to release the New Mid Concept.

That thing was designed in my (wet) dreams.

http://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/...t-ar99416.html

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Old 05-18-2011, 11:01 AM   #27
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I am thinking about selling my Piaggio BV250 Tourer. It has the factory saddlebags, factory detachable tour box and a GIVI touring windshield and around 6000 miles.


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Old 05-18-2011, 11:49 PM   #28
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If long distance touring is your intent, either the B650 or the Silverwing would work. The TMax probably will lack power and storage. The Majesty and B400 will probably also lack power, and not ride as nice. Aprilia makes an older model Scarabeo GT that is set up with hard panniers and top box, but is also a little short on power.

From a 30 minute test ride of the B650 - I did not like the engine braking on the Burgman 650. Nor the idiotic quantity of buttons on the left grip (power mode, manual/auto and something else in addition to the usual turn signal and horn). Nor the mass of the bike (about 70 lbs heavier than the Silverwing). Gas mileage is probably about 10% lower than the Silverwing. But, the scoot had a smooth ride, looks good from the front, handled well. I would have no problem owning one.

The Silverwing only has a single triple clamp fork and needs firmer springs up front (available aftermarket). With the firmer springs it handles well at all speeds. Its lighter and feels a little more maneuverable in town/lower speeds than the B650. Silverwing mpg can drop quickly as you go over 70 mph (but probably no worse than Suzuki). Its easy to make a backrest for the Silverwing (and add a few inches of leg room at the same time). Storage quantity is rated at 1 liter less than 650 (I think 55l vs. 56l). With a change of variator, the Silverwing is probably the quicker of the two bikes (stock won't be quicker; you can't modify the tranny on the 650). I own a Silverwing and have put about 11,000 miles on it in two years. Nothing has gone wrong - just maintenance and tire replacement.

Burgman folks like to brag about their bigger wheels (true). However, because the Suzuki uses lower profile rubber, the overall diameter is virtually the same as the Silverwing. I think the tires for the Silverwing are cheaper to replace (same size as the Burgman 400 and Yam Majesty).

I could live with either ride pretty easily. I ended up with the Silverwing because of the engine braking and tranny on the B650, and because I got a great deal on a used Wing.

The new Silverwing is supposed to have about 10% better mileage (you should hit 50 mpg on current model, so new one should reach 55 mpg at reasonable speeds). Its nicer looking too. However, it will come with a new-bike price tag, too. Used Silverwings are not as available as Burgmen, but there is very little that goes wrong with them, so don't be afraid to buy. There have been virtually no changes in the 10 years they've been on the market.
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Old 05-19-2011, 09:14 AM   #29
gumshoe4
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Right on the money, FoldArt. My SWing is a 2002 and it had 22,000 when I bought it. Everything works and maintenance is not difficult.

Also, your observation about the fuel mileage dropping over 70 mph is spot on.

Good words...
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:32 PM   #30
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I am seriously considering switching from my present ST1300A to a Burgman Executive for long range touring. I have been researching large scooters for a couple of years, and it seems as though the consensus is that the Burgman is the best. Opinions appreciated. I always ride solo, that is, if you don;t count my dog as a passenger. I never leave home without the little mutt, plus we've logged over 35000 miles on the ST in the last three years. I normally carry camping gear, so luggage capacity would be an issue.
Update

I am now about 99.89% sure that the Honda Silverwing or Burgman 650 will be in my near future. In fact, I've advertised my ST here on this site, as well at the ST-owners site, Craigslist, etc. I really appreciate all of the advice given. I'm leaning toward the Burgman Executive, since I like the larger engine and alternator for heated clothing, plus the electric windscreen, which i don't think the SW has. However, I'm hoping that the new Silverwing updates prior to my purchase. Also, I've not yet tested either scooter, but will in a month or so.
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