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Old 05-22-2011, 06:25 PM   #31
Emmbeedee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
Notice the "incl. Shipping" That means I added the shipping cost (~$10) to the price.
Well I never add shipping onto a quoted price, or tax for that matter, as if I do, I often talk myself out of the item I was looking at.
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Old 05-22-2011, 07:27 PM   #32
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Maybe when the price drops a bit on it, I found a comparable replacement for my aging XOG.
I love my touch screen, but it is hard to see in direct sunlight.
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Old 05-23-2011, 08:09 AM   #33
Jäger
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For those of us in or on the edges of the GIS biz, these new higher end GPS units and "my smartphone is better than a Garmin anyway" products are hitting a price point where I would just as soon go all the way and buy a Trimble Juno and quit messing around with recreational/personal devices.

Not saying the new Montana is unfairly priced, not that at all, but neither it nor any i-whatever have anywhere near the GPS/GIS oriented capability available in something like a Trimble. For that kind of money, I'll just go buy a Juno

The big downside for your average user is you don't just buy a Trimble and fire it up; you need the software side... Pathfinder Office, Terrasynch, and a GIS program like ArcMap or Manifold. But I would far rather be using shapefiles instead of routes and tracks for my kind of travels.

Considering the way consumer demand is driving recreational GPS development, the gap between professional GPS capabilities and recreational GPS is narrowing quickly. I expect we'll see the first recreational GPS units able to use multiple SV constellations in the next few years.
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Old 05-23-2011, 08:25 AM   #34
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According to my web search, a Juno and the software is near $2000.00...I don't think you're going to find many casual users in the recreational GPS market that are even remotely interested in spending that kind of money...not to mention the misery of learning yet one more user interface/software/ etc...
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Old 05-23-2011, 02:46 PM   #35
kuroda_tadayoshi
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AMPS arm/ball socket for Montana

I pre-ordered the Montana from Garmin. I also ordered the AMPS rugged mount with audio/power cable.

After I ordered it, I noticed they said, "AMPS arm/ball socket sold separately."

Does anyone have an idea of what arm/socket I need? The RAM mounting kit Garmin has on their site https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=8130 doesn't list the Montana as a compatible device.

I have an e-mail in to Garmin, but I am totally new to the GPS world. So, if anyone has any suggestions, I would appreciate it.

And yes, I know since we haven't seen the units yet, it is all probably just a guess.
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Old 05-23-2011, 03:00 PM   #36
DRTBYK
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"AMPS" refers to the mount hole pattern spec. The base ball-mounts from RAM are AMPS compatible. You can use this one (click on the photo's):



Then you'll need something like this (depends on how long you want the Arm component):

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DRTBYK screwed with this post 05-23-2011 at 03:18 PM
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Old 05-23-2011, 08:44 PM   #37
kuroda_tadayoshi
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Thanks

Dan,

Thanks for the info. I am new to the GPS thing. I spent weeks researching this, and I know I have to get one in my hands to learn how to use it.

I look forward to figuring this out and finding all the great off-road areas in Washington State.

27 years of riding, and I feel I am learning all this stuff from scratch, now that I have a GS. This board has been a great wealth of information.
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Old 05-23-2011, 09:11 PM   #38
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Looks like this will address the disappointment that I have with my Zumo 550. I don't like the MP3 player, but I will miss the telephone interface.

But the GPS functions and options seem to be available.

I'll be watching this with lots of interest.
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Old 05-23-2011, 10:06 PM   #39
Jäger
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Originally Posted by SKINNY View Post
According to my web search, a Juno and the software is near $2000.00...I don't think you're going to find many casual users in the recreational GPS market that are even remotely interested in spending that kind of money...
You were thinking of saying something like this comment in my post you were replying to?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
The big downside for your average user is you don't just buy a Trimble and fire it up; you need the software side...
Some of us DO work in GIS related professions or know somebody who does, so the software is already there. I am equally sure that all the users here who have no qualms about pirating MapSource, map data, etc through bit torrents are not going to suddenly suffer an attack of conscience when it comes to pirating Trimble's software. In other words, for a lot of users, software cost is not an issue to begin with, no matter what they choose.

There is also the issue of "what is your time worth to you"? If it was faster and easier to transform, edit and manipulate data in .gpx using a host of utilities, professional users would do just that.

Quote:
not to mention the misery of learning yet one more user interface/software/ etc...
Terrasynch and Pathfinder are considerably less complicated than the data dance so many users do here laying out trips, transforming data, etc. My guess is that, when our CIMIC teams can teach Afghans to use it in just a few hours through a terp, anyone here who finds it a daunting task should probably not be allowed anywhere near a motorcycle.

It's like a lot of things in the motorcycle world: you makes your choices and then you live with them. Thats why some people own tire changing stands and and all the related tools and some other people own a couple of tire spoons. It does occur to me that some of our more dedicated GPS users are spending one hell of a lot of time and effort trying to make a recreational GPS environment give the results easily available in the professional GPS/mapping environment.

It's not about "this is better than that". It's about different tools that offer different capabilities.
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Old 05-24-2011, 09:37 AM   #40
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Well, as the Juno series are quoted on the Trimble website as being IP4X compliant (meaning objects greater than 1mm in diameter), it doesn't appear that they are waterproof to any real degree, which is a backward step from the Garmins, which are all IPX7, as far as I can tell.

You'd have to go to the Yuma tablet or Nomad handheld to get IP67 coverage (sealed against dust and has been water immersion tested for 30 minutes at a depth of one meter or 3.28 ft).
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Old 05-24-2011, 11:03 AM   #41
Jäger
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Originally Posted by rallybug View Post
Well, as the Juno series are quoted on the Trimble website as being IP4X compliant (meaning objects greater than 1mm in diameter), it doesn't appear that they are waterproof to any real degree, which is a backward step from the Garmins, which are all IPX7, as far as I can tell.

You'd have to go to the Yuma tablet or Nomad handheld to get IP67 coverage (sealed against dust and has been water immersion tested for 30 minutes at a depth of one meter or 3.28 ft).
Given that Yuma's and Nomads start at around $4500 and counting, that's a bit more than I'm prepared to pay for waterproof. Pricing in the ballpark of a Blackberry I can live with.

The norm for Juno's deployed for AM/FM field work, natural resources surveys, etc is to have them in a protective case - and/or something as simple as a ziplock bag a la the smartphone solution some guys use who want their phones up on the bars. I have used Junos up along the Portland Canal where it REALLY rains, in weather I wouldn't even consider getting on my bike, and I have yet to kill one with water. Will they stand immersion in one meter of water for 30 minutes? Probably not, but anything that puts any of my GPS units under water for 30 minutes is going to be a disaster with much greater implications for my trip and bike.

A Juno is roughly around the price of a Blackberry, about the same size, runs Windows Mobile and apps, has Bluetooth, voice, and data connectivity, will natively work with shapefiles, orthophotos and other spatial data - and give 1-3m accuracy after postprocessing. It also can use GeoPDFs, a significant advance in real time map display that the military and USGS is all over, and which I happen to love due to the multilayer data display and ability to select what to display. For me, that alone puts a Juno or similar device way ahead of any Garmin out there - but, fair comment, I also have the capability to create my own GeoPDFs

It is neither as rugged nor as waterproof as the Garmin Montana in its naked state, and it certainly isn't a "you should buy this instead of that" situation.

But again, as a larger segment of recreational GPS users increasingly are trying to do tasks that are what would currently be considered "professional" (think of the guys out there making those custom maps some are happily downloading for their Garmins), looking at the professional products and software available is worth a look for some people. And it is hard to take that look when you don't even know the other solutions exist.

In an ideal world, Garmin or DeLorme will shortly provide units that allow postprocessing of data for similar accuracy, more granular data collection and display, and maps whose features can be edited by users. I just don't think that is going to happen anytime in the near future, and I live in an area where much of the riding is in areas where the map cultural data hasn't been updated since 1977. That is significant when a road can appear and disappear around here in ten year's time. Doesn't matter whether it is DeLorme, Garmin... they all get most of their cultural map data from the federal government, so if you want accurate map data around here, you need another solution.

Anyways, this is turning into a hijack of the Montana thread. So I'll close by saying it simply comes down to evaluating the different tools available and deciding what to go with. There is no question that for most people, that will be a Garmin of some flavour or other. But the more we move towards demanding professional results from our GPS/GIS systems, the more we should consider evaluating professional tools and not just limit ourselves to evaluating recreational tools.
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Old 05-25-2011, 07:19 AM   #42
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Looks like what I need to replace the 276...I wonder how long it will take before a good off-road mount is available...I'm guessing the Ram mount won't be practical due to the increased weight and size of this model...
Same here, my 276 isn't going to last forever! The Montana weighs 2~3 ounces (depending on battery configuration) less than the 276, so we should be able to continue to use Ram mounts?
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Old 05-25-2011, 07:50 AM   #43
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It'd be nice to have a non-electronic (battery op only) handlebar mount. option.

I don't want to tap into the power on my DR650
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Old 05-25-2011, 08:21 AM   #44
SKINNY
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Originally Posted by NoDirt4Me View Post
Same here, my 276 isn't going to last forever! The Montana weighs 2~3 ounces (depending on battery configuration) less than the 276, so we should be able to continue to use Ram mounts?
I've not had much luck with Ram mounts...the ball is too hard to prevent slipping and I'm constantly having to push the GPS back into position...
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Old 05-25-2011, 09:25 AM   #45
Yossarian™
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Is this new Montana glove-friendly? You see, I ALWAYS wear some sort of glove when I'm riding, whether it's singletrack, street, or highway. I really don't feel like having to remove a glove to operate a GPS.
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