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Old 09-24-2012, 10:34 AM   #5251
BruceWA
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Hey Dan, nothing worthy of note, did experience the merry go round effect until I locked the display in landscape. Have a route I created in BaseCamp but haven't transferred it to the 650t yet, for this weekends Day 2 ride. Guess I should do that now so I can see what happens.
Overall I am pleased, but have much to learn yet, and not just for the 650t
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Old 09-24-2012, 10:38 AM   #5252
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Originally Posted by BruceWA View Post
Slight change of topic here.......but on my recent trip of a week ago I noticed on about 3-4 occasions that my 650t lost satellite reception, all but one of those occasions when there were NO obstructions, mountains or trees. Once in Idaho on US Hwy 2 just north of Silverwood for about 5 miles. Any ideas? My 276c used to loose satellite reception often and appears to be more sensitive to this.

Thanks.
I had something similar happen to me last week (Wed 2012-9-19) during a 11day off-road trip, the montana simply stopped tracking for about 3hrs. No issues prior to or after that event. I was running the fairly robust firmware v4.2 at the time. My AMPS rugged mount is direct wired into my battery, so unit automatically turns on when placed into the cradle. I typically always use tracks but during that ride segment I was using a route. Track log should still work though.

Kidding not aside, perhaps the 50th space wing was doing some sort of gps sat upgrade for a brief period of time???


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Old 09-24-2012, 11:15 AM   #5253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvwalker View Post
I had something similar happen to me last week (Wed 2012-9-19) during a 11day off-road trip, the montana simply stopped tracking for about 3hrs. No issues prior to or after that event. I was running the fairly robust firmware v4.2 at the time. My AMPS rugged mount is direct wired into my battery, so unit automatically turns on when placed into the cradle. I typically always use tracks but during that ride segment I was using a route. Track log should still work though.

Kidding not aside, perhaps the 50th space wing was doing some sort of gps sat upgrade for a brief period of time???
I haven't really been monitoring my Track Log very closely since I've been riding in areas I know well. This might be something for us to watch and check our Track Logs for gaps like this while in Route navigation mode - or in general while moving.

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Old 09-24-2012, 11:38 AM   #5254
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Base camp for windows ?
Thanks
Well, I did a check of this last night and my Windows BC crashed and refused to restart. I have not been able to get BC to reinstall on my Windows 7 machine - interesting. I'll check again when v4.0.2 is released (soon). In the mean time, were you using the map switching technique from MapSource? It did work previously. Don't use Activity switching, BC-Win will just recalculate each time you change Activity.

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Old 09-24-2012, 12:54 PM   #5255
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Non-routable map?

What is a non-routable map?
I have Topo 100k and CN 2013 installed. Which map should I select for the direct routing?

We prefer routes over tracks as the routes give us distance to next and predictive turn instructions. When approaching a turn we have a pretty good idea which way to go.

Tracks requires more constant monitoring of the GPS and sometimes at intersections it will be required to take one or more of the trails for some distance to verify the correct turn has been made.

As I understand it you combine tracks with waypoints and proximity alerts to mimic what the routes do: distance to next and predictive turn instructions. Is this correct?
1) Proxmity alerts will warn you of an upcoming turn? DO you get some sort of "distance to alert" message?
2) What is the purpose of the waypoints?


JB Rupee

PS Thanks for the detailed replies.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
The route you were looking at in my post was created 5min before I posted it... so, yes to either: Windows or Mac BC v4.0.1.

The trick is to switch between a routable and non-routable map when you want to go "off-road". On Mac BC you can do it another way using the Routing Properties window to switch between Along-road and Direct Routing Activities and then use the cmd-z when BC wants to recalculate. But, the map switching is easier and less confusing.

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Old 09-24-2012, 01:01 PM   #5256
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Sounding like we are still better off all on the lifetime maps and use the ole realiables JB.

Did you get your feet massaged by Zoe-san ?
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Old 09-24-2012, 01:06 PM   #5257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnpitts01 View Post
What is a non-routable map?
I have Topo 100k and CN 2013 installed. Which map should I select for the direct routing?
I have both as well and find that Topo 100K will not route.

If you have both enabled within a profile, then CN 2013 should be the higher order map and routing will be available.
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Old 09-24-2012, 01:30 PM   #5258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnpitts01 View Post
What is a non-routable map?
I have Topo 100k and CN 2013 installed. Which map should I select for the direct routing?

We prefer routes over tracks as the routes give us distance to next and predictive turn instructions. When approaching a turn we have a pretty good idea which way to go.

Tracks requires more constant monitoring of the GPS and sometimes at intersections it will be required to take one or more of the trails for some distance to verify the correct turn has been made.

As I understand it you combine tracks with waypoints and proximity alerts to mimic what the routes do: distance to next and predictive turn instructions. Is this correct?
1) Proxmity alerts will warn you of an upcoming turn? DO you get some sort of "distance to alert" message?
2) What is the purpose of the waypoints?


JB Rupee

PS Thanks for the detailed replies.
As mentioned, your US 100K Topo's do not have routable data: i.e, non-routable maps. If you were to use them along with CNNA (which obviously does have routable data) in BaseCamp you should be able to create mixed-routes and send them to the Montana: at least with Mac-BC. Try the map-switching technique in Win-BC.

If you do use Tracks to navigate, you can add Waypoints along your path as informational Alerts. I like to place my Waypoints along the Track but they don't have to be actually on the Track path, within 200ft is enough for them to be included in the Nav Info list. Any point included in the Nav Info list will also show in the Distance to Next data field. You can put Proximity Alerts in the Waypoints and you will get the beep/screen-popups when you approach the waypoint and when you depart the Proximity radius. The one drawback to Track Nav Info on the Montana is that when a Track is selected and you press "GO" to navigate, the unit always defaults to using any available map elevation data to "calculate" the path. When this happens, you will get Nav Info points for major changes in Elevation (+,-). These will also show up in the Distance to Next data field. Sometimes this is good if you are only Trail riding but most of the time they are just a distraction. I have found that the primary Track in Adventures does not automatically calculate the path using DEM (elevation) data so there are no Elevation change points in the Nav Info list. Hooray!!! Now if the Montana Team will just give us the ability to NOT use DEM data with Track Nav (outside of Adventures) I'd be a happy(er) guy.

For mixed-routes you all just need the same version of the map that was use to create the Along-road Routing data in your mixed-route: i.e, CNNA v20xx.xx

Cheers,
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Old 09-24-2012, 01:50 PM   #5259
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Mixed mode routes

Just did a quick test of creating a route in Windows BC. By switching from CN to Topo I can create a direct (straight line) section within a route.
Looks like that problem is solved in BC Win. Havent transferred to the GPS yet to see if that causes any issues. WOnt get to it until later in October as I am traveling. But I dont imagine there will be any issues transferring the mixed mode route from BC to the 478 or 276


Yes, we use earbuds (sometimes) for the predcitive info. But more importanly is the distance to next and predictive arrow info. Not stopping and trying to figure out where to go. When we approach an turn we know exactly where to go.

In the past when following tracks (without proximity alerts and waypoints) it involves creeping up on the turn (or more likey overrunning the turn if you are motoring along or your attention is on a difficult technical trail). Then stopping, especially if the intersection has multiple turns or multiple trails within a short distance to determine the correct way to go.

Maybe tracks with waypoints and proximity alerts can solve the problem. But there is nothing like looking down at the GPS and seeing that you are exactly on the planned route rather than "near" a straight line track.

I have had this happen on a few occasions with a Zumo when there are parallel tracks in a wooded section. Just a few yards apart, but you cant see the other one. Get a couple miles down the wrong one which is now veering off course and does not reconnect. No choice but to backtrack and pick up the correct trail. Routes pretty much eliminate any of this.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
As mentioned, your US 100K Topo's do not have routable data: i.e, non-routable maps. If you were to use them along with CNNA (which obviously does have routable data) in BaseCamp you should be able to create mixed-routes and send them to the Montana: at least with Mac-BC. Try the map-switching technique in Win-BC.

If you do use Tracks to navigate, you can add Waypoints along your path as informational Alerts. I like to place my Waypoints along the Track but they don't have to be actually on the Track path, within 200ft is enough for them to be included in the Nav Info list. Any point included in the Nav Info list will also show in the Distance to Next data field. You can put Proximity Alerts in the Waypoints and you will get the beep/screen-popups when you approach the waypoint and when you depart the Proximity radius.

I guess I'm not sure how you are actually using your GPS's. Are you getting audio feeds through earbuds? If you are just looking at the Routing Nav Info then Track Nav can give you very similar Info on the Montana.

Or, use Mixed-Routes. You all just need the same version of the map that was use to create the Along-road Routing data in your mixed-route: i.e, CNNA v20xx.xx

Cheers,.
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Old 09-24-2012, 02:04 PM   #5260
DRTBYK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnpitts01 View Post
. . .

In the past when following tracks (without proximity alerts and waypoints) it involves creeping up on the turn (or more likey overrunning the turn if you are motoring along or your attention is on a difficult technical trail). Then stopping, especially if the intersection has multiple turns or multiple trails within a short distance to determine the correct way to go.

Maybe tracks with waypoints and proximity alerts can solve the problem. But there is nothing like looking down at the GPS and seeing that you are exactly on the planned route rather than "near" a straight line track.

I have had this happen on a few occasions with a Zumo when there are parallel tracks in a wooded section. Just a few yards apart, but you cant see t
he other one. Get a couple miles down the wrong one which is now veering off course and does not reconnect. No choice but to backtrack and pick up the correct trail. Routes pretty much eliminate any of this.
I completely understand the added value Routing provides. I've gone through all of the GPS's we use in DS/Adv Touring. The issue has always been (and still is) that if you want to share your route (unless its a Direct Route) everyone must have the same map set. For small groups or on tours like ours, this is not such a big deal (I provide the Maps we use). But, ad hoc get togethers and larger groups this is not usually possible. Anyway. Now you know it can be done in BaseCamp just like MapSource and that the Montana will use Mixed-routes without changing them (map-caveat).

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Old 09-24-2012, 03:21 PM   #5261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
I haven't really been monitoring my Track Log very closely since I've been riding in areas I know well. This might be something for us to watch and check our Track Logs for gaps like this while in Route navigation mode - or in general while moving.

Cheers,
this was eating at me so dug a little deeper, and turns out user error caused my loss of track log condition. I had changed active profile from off-road to on-road while using a route, and my default is track off for the on-road profile. The montana was doing exactly as it was told.
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:29 PM   #5262
DRTBYK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvwalker View Post
this was eating at me so dug a little deeper, and turns out user error caused my loss of track log condition. I had changed active profile from off-road to on-road while using a route, and my default is track off for the on-road profile. The montana was doing exactly as it was told.


Damn technology. Doesn't it know it's suppose to do as I think, not as I say?!

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Old 09-24-2012, 04:51 PM   #5263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
On Mac BC you can do it another way using the Routing Properties window to switch between Along-road and Direct Routing Activities and then use the cmd-z when BC wants to recalculate. But, the map switching is easier and less confusing.

Cheers,
I tried doing it on the Mac version a dozen times, it doesn't recalculate when I switch from along road to direct, when I hit the CMD-Z key effectively deletes the route from the last way point back to the 2nd to last. If I don't hit the CMD-Z then what happens is it still uses along road routing even though it shows direct routing. If I start out in direct it still stays direct when I switch to along road.

I'll try the map switching, thanks for the tip.
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Old 09-24-2012, 05:09 PM   #5264
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Originally Posted by Albie View Post
I tried doing it on the Mac version a dozen times, it doesn't recalculate when I switch from along road to direct, when I hit the CMD-Z key effectively deletes the route from the last way point back to the 2nd to last. If I don't hit the CMD-Z then what happens is it still uses along road routing even though it shows direct routing. If I start out in direct it still stays direct when I switch to along road.

I'll try the map switching, thanks for the tip.
Mixed-route in Mac-BC: start with the Along-road routing, then with the Route Properties window open, select Direct Routing in the Properties window (not the BaseCamp Activity list from the Menu Bar). Once in Direct mode lay out your points and when you are back to a road surface stop and go back and change the Route Properties Activity to an Along-road activity. The route will recalculate and look screwed up. Just hit the cmd-z to back out. Your along-road section will look like a Direct section but all you have to do is use the select tool and select that section of the route and place it with a via point back on the road. It will recalculate just that section and you're back in business. The map switching method is easier.

Cheers,
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Old 09-24-2012, 05:23 PM   #5265
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Building a track with predictive instruction

DRTBYK

Can you point me to a tutorial for building a track with the Waypoints and Proximity points?

Would like to try building one and following it to compare against a route.

Our small group has vowed to all be on the same Mapsource version going forward to eliminate all the recalculating we currently do.

But if this track method proves succesful maybe we will go that route and perhaps even move on to the Montana.


JB Rupee

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
I completely understand the added value Routing provides. I've gone through all of the GPS's we use in DS/Adv Touring. The issue has always been (and still is) that if you want to share your route (unless its a Direct Route) everyone must have the same map set. For small groups or on tours like ours, this is not such a big deal (I provide the Maps we use). But, ad hoc get togethers and larger groups this is not usually possible. Anyway. Now you know it can be done in BaseCamp just like MapSource and that the Montana will use Mixed-routes without changing them (map-caveat).

Cheers,
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