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Old 04-10-2013, 08:39 AM   #7426
DRTBYK
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Update v4.80

The v4.80 is out:

Fixed one of a few annoying bugs I had while in South America...


Changes from version 4.70 to version 4.80:
  • Improved EXIF compass heading data in camera photos (650 and 650t models).
  • Fixed issue with changing profiles when the altimeter dashboard is active on the main menu.
  • Fixed issue with certain characters on the Czech or Polish keyboards in landscape orientation.
  • Fixed issue with shortcuts that enable or disable maps remaining highlighted after being selected.
  • Fixed issue with displaying tracks on the map after performing an area calculation.
  • Fixed issue with saving a track's 'show on map' status across a power cycle.
  • Fixed potential issue with renaming tracks or routes.
  • Fixed potential issue with viewing geocache descriptions in night mode.

Cheers,
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:47 AM   #7427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
and ever since the Return Arrow and Scroll Arrows do not behave as before. On most menu's the Return Arrow, if held, does not return to the Main Menu. When trying to select an App Icon on the Main Menu pages, the icon must be touched very lightly or the unit thinks you want to move the icon. I hope the Dev Team will regression test this behavior and correct it.


No mention of this issue that I see. I had to roll back to 4.6 to make the unit usable again.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:28 AM   #7428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cablebandit View Post
No mention of this issue that I see. I had to roll back to 4.6 to make the unit usable again.
I only had time for quick test of the Return Arrow issue but it seems to be working now.

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Old 04-10-2013, 09:42 AM   #7429
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Thanks Dan,

I'll backup and give it a go.
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:06 AM   #7430
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So, quick tests are usually not the most reliable.

Return Arrow behavior is still inconsistent.

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Old 04-10-2013, 11:42 AM   #7431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snooker View Post
I think there may be some misunderstanding about routing.

We have a separate Routing thread for the Montana where I've tried to start at square one and define terms and then build up concepts, examples and best practices. Please read that and ask routing questions there. I am new to this and tried to gather up all the answers I found and summarize them there. (DRTBYK you were off on a trip so I'd like you to review it and bless/edit the info there please?)
snooker,

I've done a quick scan of the Routing Thread and don't see any glaring miss-info. When I have more time I'll read each post and if I have any additional insight I'd be happy to post there.

I can tell you [all] that although I have investigated Routing extensively over the years on GPSMAP 276/376/478, zumo's and the Montana, I don't use Routing much in my planning process. I am use it more these days on the Montana while on Tour just to see how it will calculate compared to our Tracks given my Montana/BaseCamp Profile Settings and the Map I'm using. As you may know I always have a Track as "backup" to any Route I create in BC when I use use them on my Montana: "...Trust but Verify." (only us old folks will recognize that quote)

I will be interested in working with the new BaseCamp Trip Planning feature (when/if it comes to MAC-BaseCamp).

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Old 04-10-2013, 03:32 PM   #7432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
snooker,
I've done a quick scan of the Routing Thread and don't see any glaring miss-info.

Cheers,
We've been busy while you were gone!!
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Old 04-10-2013, 03:49 PM   #7433
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Direct Routes on Montana vs. Tracks created by BC

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterMarine View Post
I have found that you can have as many via points for direct (point to point) routing as you want on Basecamp but only the first 250 will show on your Montana once you transfer the route to it.
To be clear... this is for using the Montana in Direct mode as well, only the first 250 will show and the rest are truncated (whereas any non-Direct mode pukes if more than 50 and does nothing).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydah View Post
... Thanks, good to know. So that's 250 per route, or total? I like to break up the ride into several smaller routes, so 250 per would be easy enough. 250 total might take some modifying.
Repeating others but yes that's 250 per Route but only in Direct mode on the Montana. Is that really what you want?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky TFS View Post
... I have not had real good luck with CNNA autorouting out in the Boonies, so I use a non-routable Topo map and direct routing for those rides.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky TFS View Post
Since I almost always use a non-routable topo for serious dirt it's moot anyway.
Hi Rocky... I guess I wasn't thinking about using Routes with the Montana set to Direct Mode like this (I come from using only Tracks on a 60CSx)... but I see your point in general. But this leads to a question...

For OFFROAD trip planning, if you have a decent topo map that is routable like the Garmin 24k Topo, I see potential in using BaseCamp to pick a few points and let it autoroute the way you like it while adding shaping points until it is close to what you want (in BC only). Then why not (IN BC) create a Track from that Route and then simply use the Track? You can fiddle with adding points as much as you want and in the end you have NO limitations by just using it as a Track (ok well 10,000 points per track).

In fact in this case the routable map (like 24k Garmin) might be useful during the early autorouting phase (or not), but in either case later on the Montana you just use a track, and the map on the Montana is completely independent.

Is there a downside to doing this? (haven't tried it yet)....

I was just in Moab and it seemed most of the trails (e.g. Monitor and Merrimac) visibly showed up on the Topo 24k yet if I remember correctly they would not auto-route (so no data for them for the autorouting algorithm???). Is this common? If so is there any rhyme or reason (unpaved may not route or ?). UPDATE: Ok I was wrong, at least in BaseCamp the small trails I see visible on the Topo 24k map do indeed allow them to be autorouted, even the smallest 4x4 roads that show up.
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Old 04-10-2013, 03:58 PM   #7434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
snooker,

I've done a quick scan of the Routing Thread and don't see any glaring miss-info. When I have more time I'll read each post and if I have any additional insight I'd be happy to post there.

I can tell you [all] that although I have investigated Routing extensively over the years on GPSMAP 276/376/478, zumo's and the Montana, I don't use Routing much in my planning process. I am use it more these days on the Montana while on Tour just to see how it will calculate compared to our Tracks given my Montana/BaseCamp Profile Settings and the Map I'm using. As you may know I always have a Track as "backup" to any Route I create in BC when I use use them on my Montana: "...Trust but Verify." (only us old folks will recognize that quote)
...
Cheers,
Actually I like an older admission of yours better - that basically said you mainly use Tracks and that Routes are just along for "fun" - e.g. to get trip computer type data as you go (time/distance to destination, etc). That made me feel a lot better about all this Routing BS that I've spent WAY too much energy on.

Tracks.... "Don't leave home without them!"
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Old 04-10-2013, 04:04 PM   #7435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snooker View Post
..................

For OFFROAD trip planning, if you have a decent topo map that is routable like the Garmin 24k Topo, I see potential in using BaseCamp to pick a few points and let it autoroute the way you like it while adding shaping points until it is close to what you want (in BC only). Then why not (IN BC) create a Track from that Route and then simply use the Track? You can fiddle with adding points as much as you want and in the end you have NO limitations by just using it as a Track (ok well 10,000 points per track).

In fact in this case the routable map (like 24k Garmin) might be useful during the early autorouting phase (or not), but in either case later on the Montana you just use a track, and the map on the Montana is completely independent.

Is there a downside to doing this? (haven't tried it yet)....
............
Having iterated a bit figuring out how best to utilize my 600 and the Aus Topo maps and BC this solution is where I've ended up. Works well.
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:05 PM   #7436
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CNNANT and/or Topo 24k

So now that I've finally started to actually RIDE with my Montana... I have some basic map questions, (not routing or tracks for once ).

1. First issue, once I zoom out above a certain point... the road disappears. Even with Detail set to Most (which helps some). Seems like maybe 0.8 miles but in any event no way I can zoom out to, say 5 miles. Of course the more "minor" the road the sooner it disappears. How do you guys deal with this? All I can think of is to just give up seeing the road and simply watch your Track... but the Track obscures the road so you can't really see the road anymore. oh well.

2. Topo usage and seeing your trail:
Let's say I'm in a remote place like SE Utah on an offroad 2-track dirt road (trail). The trail does not appear on CNNANT so all you see is a bunch of white. period. Ok CNNANT is pretty worthless and I turn it off since the road DOES appear on Topo24k (only when zoomed in though ).

But then the problem is that the topo lines in Topo24k are way too much clutter and you can never see the trail. Even the Track is a bit hard to see with all the topo lines and elevation numbers in canyon country (and is worse when the Detail is set to Most).

I've also read that people hate the Shaded Relief and turn it off and I can see why for the most part however I found this:

But here is what I found that is cool. If you turn ON the Shaded Relief and then Enable Both CNNANT and Topo24k then you get the shaded relief but none of the Topo lines. It actually looks pretty good. You can't see the road now but you can always see your Track and overall it is decent effect.

Can somebody explain what is going on here? It has to get the DEM data for shading from Topo24k but CNNANT takes priority so it doesn't show up the Topo24k contour lines and elevation numbers?

I'm sure this has been covered but does anybody else do this or is there a better solution? I'll try to post a pic if that helps.
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:13 PM   #7437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snooker View Post
But this leads to a question...

For OFFROAD trip planning, if you have a decent topo map that is routable like the Garmin 24k Topo, I see potential in using BaseCamp to pick a few points and let it autoroute the way you like it while adding shaping points until it is close to what you want (in BC only). Then why not (IN BC) create a Track from that Route and then simply use the Track? You can fiddle with adding points as much as you want and in the end you have NO limitations by just using it as a Track (ok well 10,000 points per track).
A. I don't have any autorouting 24K maps.
B. I'm not likely to buy them.
C. I WILL NEVER TRUST AN AUTOROUTING MAP IN THE BACKCOUNTRY!!!!

I have a 25 year love/hate relationship with GPS technology from being a pilot, and have been to a few too many funerals of younger guys who trusted their GPS just a little too much.

I want to vet any route or track I ever use in the boonies with a paper map if possible, or at least two different electronic topo maps. My backcountry may be quite different from yours! I can get so lost out here in the West that I could actually die from exposure. I do carry a PLB for just that eventuality, but using it means a full on Search and Rescue operation and I'd rather not face a $50,000 bill because of my own stupidity.

If your penalty clause is not as severe as mine, by all means use the 24K autorouting capability in the manner you suggested. I would do it that way any time I was not concerned with survival.
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:14 PM   #7438
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Well, the reason I prefer routes is because I like to ride aggresively, and don't want to have to constantly be watching the screen to make sure I'm on track (no pun intended). Lot's of the places I ride have multiple forks in the road, so it's easy to get off track. Being able to put a via point on the correct side of the fork gives me a "heads up" so I can adjust my approach speed/angle accordingly.

All moot right now though. Had to send my brand new, never been used Montana 650 back to Garmin for repair. Computer suddenly could not find it as a connected drive. After spending three hours on the phone with four different reps, doing all kinds of gyrations (including turing over my screen to them), they concluded I had a bad unit. Even had to pay for the return shipping myself. Nice.
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:46 PM   #7439
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FWIW, after getting something together in BC I then 'ground truth' it in Google Earth for traps.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:04 PM   #7440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky TFS View Post
A. I don't have any autorouting 24K maps.
B. I'm not likely to buy them.
C. I WILL NEVER TRUST AN AUTOROUTING MAP IN THE BACKCOUNTRY!!!!

I have a 25 year love/hate relationship with GPS technology from being a pilot, and have been to a few too many funerals of younger guys who trusted their GPS just a little too much.

I want to vet any route or track I ever use in the boonies with a paper map if possible, or at least two different electronic topo maps. My backcountry may be quite different from yours! I can get so lost out here in the West that I could actually die from exposure. I do carry a PLB for just that eventuality, but using it means a full on Search and Rescue operation and I'd rather not face a $50,000 bill because of my own stupidity.

If your penalty clause is not as severe as mine, by all means use the 24K autorouting capability in the manner you suggested. I would do it that way any time I was not concerned with survival.
With all due respect I think your energy is off topic as to what my question is. I was only talking about trail plotting in BaseCamp. I was not suggesting you pull up to a trailhead, put in the destination 100 miles away and then blindly follow the dirt roads and trails that it autorouted for you using the Topo24k.

What I was talking about was how to create either a Track vs. a Route... IN BASECAMP AT HOME BEFORE A TRIP. That's what I meant by "For OFFROAD trip planning...".

The only advantage I was suggesting was to use the Topo24k in BaseCamp as it could autoroute if the trail showed in Topo24k (but not in CNNANT), then you save it as a Track. Your alternative is to just pick up to 250 points and use it in Direct mode on the Montana so it just shows straight lines between every 2 points. How is that safer to use than trying to autoroute at home, then taking your time to modify it and verify it via other means until you think you have a solid path, at which point you SAVE IT AS A TRACK and never use autorouting on the GPSr???

Both ways have the same issues with vetting or verifying via paper maps, Google Earth, and best of all on land itself.

To illustrate my question, here is a short 12 mile section in SE Utah on an upcoming trip. I started with a route with 3 points in it.

The 3 examples show: 1) Direct Route, 2) Autorouted Route or 3) saving #2 as a Track.

In 1 click it took 3 points and made a Track with 395 points in it because it had the data in the Topo24k mapset to do so. To me this is valuable.

For myself I would rather follow #3, the Track. I would still have to "vet it" but after I have done so I'd rather follow it than #1. Expand this concept to creating an entire 120 mile section and rather than entering a bunch of points for Direct that only shows straight lines (over 700 foot sandstone cliffs or whatever) in a couple of clicks it can create an entire detailed Track. At least that is my question, but again this is all new to me...

1) Direct Route:



2) Autorouted Route:



3) Track created from Route by clicking "Create Track" in the Route properties:



I still have maps of Utah canyon country I bought back in 1983 when any maps of 4x4 roads at all were hard to find. I am new to GPS but not maps and I don't take it lightly.
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