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Old 11-03-2013, 07:21 AM   #9901
mpatch
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Joined: Apr 2011
Location: N Colorado
Oddometer: 825
Just picked up a Montana and have been comparing it to my gpsmap x7x's
cons with the Montana vs x7x's:
can't search for poi's along route
can't hide contour lines
can't track back
no XM option
can't edit imported routes
no buttons
can't turn off recalc

pros:
memory
faster processor
profiles
touchscreen
cheap powered mount
barometer
way more customizable
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Old 11-03-2013, 07:38 AM   #9902
jrsue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpatch View Post
Just picked up a Montana and have been comparing it to my gpsmap x7x's
cons with the Montana vs x7x's:
can't search for poi's along route
can't hide contour lines
can't track back
no XM option
can't edit imported routes
no buttons
can't turn off recalc

pros:
memory
faster processor
profiles
touchscreen
cheap powered mount
barometer
way more customizable
Yes I agree with most of that. For me the Touch screen is by far the biggest Con. However the improvement (vs 376) on Sat reception is enough to tip favor to the Montana.

I ride trails alot, and much of it is under heavy tree cover and steep hills. The older 276/376 receivers frequently will loose their fix and until you find a break in the cover you are left with nothing but a blinking ?. I used to have to keep my 60csx mounted up, just so I could maintain a continuous track for downloading after a ride . So far the Montana has yet to loose its fix in these situations so for me this is a huge improvement.

The touchscreen however is quit fiddly compared to dedicated buttons and a rocker switch, But I will learn to live with it.
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Old 11-03-2013, 07:39 AM   #9903
DRTBYK
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Location: North Central Washington (state)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpatch View Post
Just picked up a Montana and have been comparing it to my gpsmap x7x's
cons with the Montana vs x7x's:
can't search for poi's along route
can't hide contour lines
can't track back -- Sure you can TracBack. If you have a Current Track just open the Track Manager, select the Current Track and View Map
no XM option
can't edit imported routes -- You can if you import them as Direct Routes.
no buttons -- The Power Button is customizable!
can't turn off recalc -- You most certainly can; Setup->Routing->Off Route Recalculation=OFF. Routes imported to the Montana are not automatically recalculated.
You need to spend a bit more time with the Montana -- see my comments inline with your quote.
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Old 11-03-2013, 08:01 AM   #9904
mpatch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
You need to spend a bit more time with the Montana -- see my comments inline with your quote.
Is there a way to add vias or avoids?

Arent direct routes just straight lines between points?
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Old 11-03-2013, 08:16 AM   #9905
DRTBYK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpatch View Post
Is there a way to add vias or avoids?

Arent direct routes just straight lines between points?
The Montana only allows for adding 1 Via Point to an active Route. But, you can edit the Direct Route and add up to a total of 50 points in the Route. Yes, Direct Routes are straight lined point-to-point, just change the Routing mode to Automotive and it will recalculate using the points you have or that you have inserted. If that doesn't work for you than you must live with the route as you transferred it.
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:11 AM   #9906
Rocky TFS
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Originally Posted by SteveAZ View Post
If I can get some users of other units to gather data showing some similar behavior, I'd be more than happy to take the position error discussion to a "map heading & position accuracy problem" thread....
I've been following this discussion of heading wandering and poor position accuracy since the beginning. I just got back from ten days down by St. George riding both bikes and using the Montana constantly, either with CNNA 2013.3 or the Utah Topo.

For the life of me I just can't see the behavior Steve is talking about. When I'm following or making a track, the heading is right on every time I stop, with only a slight hiccup of 20 degrees or so after a couple of seconds, after which it settles down and stays put. If I take it off and wander a little, it shows exactly where I'm headed and when I change direction while stopped. If a Geocache or whatever is 50 feet away it will lead me to within 15 feet of it every time. (unless the POI has incorrect Lat/Long.)

The position accuracy will let me determine whether I'm on the right side of a two lane road looking North, or on the left side looking South. This seems more like 3 to 5 meter accuracy, not 15 meter. The road is only 25 feet wide! This is with WAAS off....I just don't see the need to turn it on to go from 13 ft. accuracy to 9 ft. accuracy.

This is about the same accuracy as I see with my old 96C with WAAS enabled. However, the Montana is about ten or twenty times as good about keeping lock on the satellites in heavy trees or tall buildings. I just simply have never observed it being any less than highly accurate. (except in the Zion Tunnel....it did lose lock with 700 feet of sandstone above it.)

I think there really is something wrong with his unit, as others have said.

My curiosity has been peaked enough to try to replicate his plots, and I will post the results sometime. I just can't believe my unit would perform as it does if it only had 15 meter accuracy.

(This is with 5.4, compass on Auto, fast GPS enabled. I never saw any loss of satellites during the trip.)
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:17 AM   #9907
atlas cached
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky TFS View Post
I've been following this discussion of heading wandering and poor position accuracy since the beginning. I just got back from ten days down by St. George riding both bikes and using the Montana constantly, either with CNNA 2013.3 or the Utah Topo.

For the life of me I just can't see the behavior Steve is talking about. When I'm following or making a track, the heading is right on every time I stop, with only a slight hiccup of 20 degrees or so after a couple of seconds, after which it settles down and stays put. If I take it off and wander a little, it shows exactly where I'm headed and when I change direction while stopped. If a Geocache or whatever is 50 feet away it will lead me to within 15 feet of it every time. (unless the POI has incorrect Lat/Long.)

The position accuracy will let me determine whether I'm on the right side of a two lane road looking North, or on the left side looking South. This seems more like 3 to 5 meter accuracy, not 15 meter. The road is only 25 feet wide! This is with WAAS off....I just don't see the need to turn it on to go from 13 ft. accuracy to 9 ft. accuracy.

This is about the same accuracy as I see with my old 96C with WAAS enabled. However, the Montana is about ten or twenty times as good about keeping lock on the satellites in heavy trees or tall buildings. I just simply have never observed it being any less than highly accurate. (except in the Zion Tunnel....it did lose lock with 700 feet of sandstone above it.)

I think there really is something wrong with his unit, as others have said.

My curiosity has been peaked enough to try to replicate his plots, and I will post the results sometime. I just can't believe my unit would perform as it does if it only had 15 meter accuracy.

(This is with 5.4, compass on Auto, fast GPS enabled. I never saw any loss of satellites during the trip.)
Read Bug 07 again. If you duplicate the conditions presented in Bug 07, you will experience the behavior reported.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:02 AM   #9908
SteveAZ
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Try turning the compass to "off" instead of "auto". The automotive mount forces it off.

When "off" you will usually get the problem of the track direction changing when stopped that is almost certainly due to position noise since it's creating the track direction based on GPS position.

When "auto" it just gives an error when you stop. Since it's using the compass to determine heading, it doesn't wander. From what I can tell the error which seems somewhat random is aggravated when the unit is more vertically mounted and understandably when it's close to ferrous metals although it seems more sensitive than other devices with magnetic sensors I've used...
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:35 AM   #9909
Emmbeedee
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Interesting story about a different kind of "riders" using the Montana 650T:

Unbranded: 3,000 Miles on Horseback Through the American West
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:25 AM   #9910
DRTBYK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmbeedee View Post
Interesting story about a different kind of "riders" using the Montana 650T:

Unbranded: 3,000 Miles on Horseback Through the American West
Yes, very cool and I'm looking forward to the film. I have a great fondness for Mustangs - goes back to my time at the UofA in Tucson. One of my Advisor's, Dr. Roger Hungerford, was a leading expert on Wild Horses (Mustangs).
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:30 AM   #9911
Yossarian™
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As I drove past Garmin this morning on 151st St. in Olathe, I thought of all of you.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:54 AM   #9912
HogWild
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian™ View Post
As I drove past Garmin this morning on 151st St. in Olathe, I thought of all of you.
Where you lost? What compass heading showed on your GPS as you drove past?
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:59 AM   #9913
DRTBYK
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Originally Posted by HogWild View Post
Where you lost? What compass heading showed on your GPS as you drove past?
He probably couldn't tell with the compass spinning - didn't you know, Garmin is the center of the known universe.
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:02 PM   #9914
Yossarian™
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Originally Posted by HogWild View Post
Where you lost? What compass heading showed on your GPS as you drove past?
Funny you should ask. My wife and I were headed north on US 69 when we ran into heavy stopped traffic just past 151st. I had her grab my phone and route us to an alternate, using Google Maps. That was slightly ironic, in my demented mind, as I saw the Garmin HQ.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:53 PM   #9915
speedygee68
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aluminum cans/bottles

To all who shall see this message: Greetings!! Please send me your aluminum cans and recyclable bottles. I just ordered the Montana 650 bundle. I guess I could tell my sandwich maker that it's a safety item. Keeps me safe and from gettin' lost, right? Gulp, RIGHT?
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