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Old 11-06-2013, 09:19 AM   #9931
cablebandit
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Here comes 5-10 more pages of cruft.
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Old 11-06-2013, 09:23 AM   #9932
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Originally Posted by Countdown View Post
Actually I think you all have been talking about repeatability (within the accuracy) not accuracy.

The repeatability may frustrate many users (me) with recording a bunch of track points while stopped and causing the map to rotate while you are studing it to see which way to go.

Accuracy of 5-10 meters is overkill for a navagation GPS. When routing, I can't believe how precise my Nuvi is at freeway interchanges.

Again why don't you guys or the moderator start a new thread titled "Using a cheap Navagation GPS for precise Survey work"?
Remember its only as accurate as the maps its trying to follow. There are a few roads near me that no matter what maps or GPS unit I'm using are off by enough to screw up the GPS forcing recalc/off course to happen.
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Old 11-06-2013, 09:23 AM   #9933
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Again why don't you guys or the moderator start a new thread titled "Using a cheap Navigation GPS for precise Survey work"?
100% agree! Drifted back to the same lengthy discussion which I suspect is of little or no real world consequence to 99% of visitors to this thread IMO. Kind of makes me question why, if this is important and has been reported in other Garmin models, it isn't important enough to warrant a separate thread, and I don't even own a Montana.

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Old 11-06-2013, 09:24 AM   #9934
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How about a thread: "using an expensive handheld for its intended purposes"?

So far the accuracy and precision discussion has been pretty much entirely regarding the floptana - so it's hardly off-topic. It's already been pointed out how accuracy and precision are relevant to "adventure moto users" too.

Maybe start a thread "Two year old Garamin floptana, only talking good about it for what a select set of advriders are interested in allowed here"....
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Old 11-06-2013, 09:29 AM   #9935
Countdown
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Originally Posted by mpatch View Post
Remember its only as accurate as the maps its trying to follow. There are a few roads near me that no matter what maps or GPS unit I'm using are off by enough to screw up the GPS forcing recalc/off course to happen.
I use routing in motorhome and it works great.

I only use tracks when riding motorcycle in the dirt and maps aren't required, only helpfull at intersections.

I use Roads & Rec map in motorcycle GPS which shows 99.99% of all legal roads and trails in National Forests after Travel Management.
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Old 11-06-2013, 09:39 AM   #9936
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Maybe start a thread "Two year old Garamin floptana, only talking good about it for what a select set of advriders are interested in allowed here"....
Please do start a thread "Two year old Garmin floptana"!

I believe the second half of your quote is just plain disingenuous, you have made your point (and explanation for it) many times over in this thread before anyone suggested a separate thread. No one is trying to cap your right to express yourself.

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Old 11-06-2013, 09:49 AM   #9937
atlas cached
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100% agree! Drifted back to the same lengthy discussion which I suspect is of little or no real world consequence to 99% of visitors to this thread IMO.... and I don't even own a Montana.

Bruce

Huh. Have you even looked at the title of this thread? Do you actually believe 99% of the people participating in this thread do not even own a Montana?

What audacity to complain in a thread (about a device you do not own) that others here (whom own the device for which the thread was created to discuss) are discussing said device.

WTF?
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Old 11-06-2013, 09:50 AM   #9938
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...No one is trying to cap your right to express yourself.
Really?
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Old 11-06-2013, 09:51 AM   #9939
atlas cached
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Remember its only as accurate as the maps its trying to follow.
The accuracy of the GPSr has no relation to the accuracy of the maps installed.
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Old 11-06-2013, 10:09 AM   #9940
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Originally Posted by cablebandit View Post
Here comes 5-10 more pages of cruft.
I'll check back in around Dec. 15th.
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Old 11-06-2013, 10:09 AM   #9941
mcnut
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Really?
Really. I believe this subject deserves/merits it's own thread. As a long time user I am very curious how we find ourselves back to pre Selective Availability levels of GPS performance. I noted a similar observation in a different model specific thread and thought it would be good to consolidate the info in a singular thread.

I'm not sure how this suggestion could be construed as an attempt to silence anyone.

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Old 11-06-2013, 10:18 AM   #9942
mcnut
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Huh. Have you even looked at the title of this thread? Do you actually believe 99% of the people participating in this thread do not even own a Montana?

What audacity to complain in a thread (about a device you do not own) that others here (whom own the device for which the thread was created to discuss) are discussing said device.

WTF?
I stand by my full post as I wrote it, I regret the manner in which you selectively quoted me and how you interpreted my original post.

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Old 11-06-2013, 10:19 AM   #9943
Rocky TFS
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Originally Posted by atlas cached View Post
Comparing the Montana reported position to actual known position is accuracy.

Comparing the Montana reported position to previous reported position is precision.
Well, precision vs accuracy should have been obvious to me as a marksman for many years. When you shoot a new rifle for the first time and you want to know how accurate it is, you shoot a group to see how close five shots are at 100 yds. Say your group is 1 inch in diameter. Thus the precision of the gun is one inch at 100 yds. However, your group is 6 inches low and to the right of the bullseye, so now you fiddle with the sights or the scope until your one inch group is centered on the one inch bullseye. Now you have a precision of 1" at 100 yds and an accuracy of 1" at 100 yds....= dead deer!

So I am guilty of misusing these terms...my bad.

Many here are rather sick of all this fuss over these concepts since the Montana obviously has adequate accuracy and precision to get us where we need to go on a bike every time (not counting auto-routing peculiarities). I've been using min for 2 1/2 years and never suspected it was not accurate to within about 10 feet.

Now that I do suspect this, I simply want to know what I can realistically expect if I ever need to use it for something that really does depend on both accuracy and precision, like finding the outhouse 50 yds. away in a whiteout with 3 foot visibility. (No, not really, but say geocaching)

So I am going to search out some USGS survey markers over the next week or so to see if its accuracy is as poor as its precision plot predicts.

(Poor being a VERY relative term here....I already know it's just fine for 99% of what I will ever use it for. It's that 1% that bugs me.
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Old 11-06-2013, 10:25 AM   #9944
SteveAZ
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Originally Posted by mcnut View Post
Really. I believe this subject deserves/merits it's own thread. As a long time user I am very curious how we find ourselves back to pre Selective Availability levels of GPS performance. I noted a similar observation in a different model specific thread and thought it would be good to consolidate the info in a singular thread.

I'm not sure how this suggestion could be construed as an attempt to silence anyone.

Bruce
I think a new thread is warranted if there is data from other units to compare it to. Right now it's pretty much floptana so it seems reasonable to keep this part of the discussion here.

I have solicited folks to send me tracks from whatever units. So far only one poster has asked how to do this with something aside from floptana....

Your one comment wasn't construed by me that way. What I meant is it seems to me there is a very clear message from some folks to shut this discussion down in this thread. I don't tend to bring it up unless someone else does or there's new data anayway.

There has also been a smaller group that seems to send very clear message when any negative topic regarding this unit is discussed more than a couple of posts.

Oh well. It's just an internets board...
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Old 11-06-2013, 10:36 AM   #9945
mcnut
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I think a new thread is warranted if there is data from other units to compare it to. Right now it's pretty much floptana so it seems reasonable to keep this part of the discussion here.

I have solicited folks to send me tracks from whatever units. So far only one poster has asked how to do this with something aside from floptana....

Your one comment wasn't construed by me that way. What I meant is it seems to me there is a very clear message from some folks to shut this discussion down in this thread. I don't tend to bring it up unless someone else does or there's new data anayway.
There has also been a smaller group that seems to send very clear message when any negative topic regarding this unit is discussed more than a couple of posts.
Oh well. It's just an internets board...
Not a problem, I would like the subject to see more daylight and wider audience then it may receive buried in a 600+ page thread. In the MC model specific mega threads I have seen many really good subjects/discussions get lost due to the shear volume of material.

At the risk of being jumped on by another certain member, I visit this thread because I am interested in all things GPS, and not owning a Montana I'm not seeing the world through rose colored glasses. Feel free to check my profile for my previous posts, I don't have an agenda and like to think I have helped others and been helped by others here. While there may be a post or two I would like back I stand by them.

My posts here are themselves becoming redundant and having had the opportunity to give input will be watching from the sidelines.

Bruce

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