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Old 03-12-2014, 02:06 PM   #1
stripple OP
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Where's Triumph's Liter Bike?

I really like the Daytona 675. But, I don't want a 600. I had a Speed Triple 1050 for years and I loved, LOVED that bike.

I was talking to a friend about this earlier. He said, 'Why doesn't Triumph put the 1050 in the Daytona?'

Reasonable question. Then I started thinking about it. I think the 1050 is a wonderful road bike motor, but I don't think that it has the goods anymore to hand in the supersport world. It would be woefully underpowered compared to bikes like the R1, ect. ect...

My question to you experts;

1) Could the 1050 hang in today's liter bike world?

2) What would it take for Triumph to be competitive in this class? Could they do something with that 1215? It's quite a heavy lump, right?

3) Will Triumph step up to the plate with a viable contender in the liter bike class?


Yeah, I know that it's all conjecture and speculation. It's wintertime, humor me.
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Old 03-12-2014, 02:15 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stripple View Post
I really like the Daytona 675. But, I don't want a 600. I had a Speed Triple 1050 for years and I loved, LOVED that bike.

I was talking to a friend about this earlier. He said, 'Why doesn't Triumph put the 1050 in the Daytona?'

Reasonable question. Then I started thinking about it. I think the 1050 is a wonderful road bike motor, but I don't think that it has the goods anymore to hand in the supersport world. It would be woefully underpowered compared to bikes like the R1, ect. ect...

My question to you experts;

1) Could the 1050 hang in today's liter bike world?

2) What would it take for Triumph to be competitive in this class? Could they do something with that 1215? It's quite a heavy lump, right?

3) Will Triumph step up to the plate with a viable contender in the liter bike class?


Yeah, I know that it's all conjecture and speculation. It's wintertime, humor me.
Triumph had a 1300 in the works at one point awhile back. The 675 around that time took off and made big T money. Triumph didn't feel the market was strong enough to support another liter bike in the hunt so I've been told.
Seems KTM had enough faith but I'm wondering how much money was spent versus returned.
The 1215 would never be a contender imho it's too slow to find the redline in the current configuration.

Maybe a 1050 turbo but that's a deal breaker for some.

1300 fyi

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Old 03-12-2014, 02:17 PM   #3
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I work part time sales at a multi-line dealership that also carries Triumph, and I had the same discussion with 2 people last Saturday.

Whether Triumph uses the 1050 Speed Triple motor, or an all new one, they really need to make a Daytona 1XXXR.
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Old 03-12-2014, 02:18 PM   #4
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Holy shit! A 1050 turbo/sc, makes my knees weak.
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Old 03-12-2014, 02:19 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Florida Lime View Post
I work part time sales at a multi-line dealership that also carries Triumph, and I had the same discussion with 2 people last Saturday.

Whether Triumph uses the 1050 Speed Triple motor, or an all new one, they really need to make a Daytona 1XXXR.

I agree! They make great bikes, I'd be very tempted by a Triumph 1xxx.
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Old 03-12-2014, 02:36 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by stripple View Post
Holy shit! A 1050 turbo/sc, makes my knees weak.


A local bloke...
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Old 03-12-2014, 02:42 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florida Lime View Post
I work part time sales at a multi-line dealership that also carries Triumph, and I had the same discussion with 2 people last Saturday.

Whether Triumph uses the 1050 Speed Triple motor, or an all new one, they really need to make a Daytona 1XXXR.
So is the 675 not fast enough?
Daytona's seem to do all the leading of liter bikes around these parts. Something about riding a slow bike fast versus a fast bike slow it seems is true in the real world Wisconsin back roads.
Eric Buell knows this well too, his engineers spend a lot more time carving weight out of his designs than they do adding more horsepower.
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Old 03-12-2014, 03:04 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by St_rydr View Post
So is the 675 not fast enough?
Daytona's seem to do all the leading of liter bikes around these parts. Something about riding a slow bike fast versus a fast bike slow it seems is true in the real world Wisconsin back roads.
Eric Buell knows this well too, his engineers spend a lot more time carving weight out of his designs than they do adding more horsepower.
No one said the 675 isn't fast enough.
Triumph wanted to go head-to-head against the Japanese 600s, and they have done very well. I know - my wife has a 675.
All four of the Japanese Big 4 make a 600 class and 1000 class supersport bike. The 600 class has fallen off quite a bit - they aren't selling like they used to. Blame insurance, finance companies, whatever - but at least around here, the 600 class sales are down compared to the open class.
Many feel it is about time Triumph tried to compete with the Japanese 1000s in a way similar to what they did with the 675.

Oh, and both my wife and I have owned Buells. In case you haven't looked recently, EriK Buell (that's with a K !) makes the 1190RX now, which while light, does not ignore power the way you suggest.
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Old 03-12-2014, 04:24 PM   #9
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A local bloke...

Oh. My. GAWD!!

It's as if someone reached into my brain and pulled from it my image of the perfect S3. Sweet baby Jesus...
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Old 03-12-2014, 04:33 PM   #10
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I1) Could the 1050 hang in today's liter bike world?
I seriously doubt it.....Im sure they could if they REALLY wanted to but Triumph has done a really good job carving a little niche in the bike world - why do what's already been done already and probably not as well as what's already out there?

I have an S3 and its an astonishingly good bike - but it's WAY down on liter bike power. Having said that it would be really cool if they made a proper sport bike
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Old 03-12-2014, 04:53 PM   #11
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No one said the 675 isn't fast enough.
Triumph wanted to go head-to-head against the Japanese 600s, and they have done very well. I know - my wife has a 675.
All four of the Japanese Big 4 make a 600 class and 1000 class supersport bike. The 600 class has fallen off quite a bit - they aren't selling like they used to. Blame insurance, finance companies, whatever - but at least around here, the 600 class sales are down compared to the open class.
Many feel it is about time Triumph tried to compete with the Japanese 1000s in a way similar to what they did with the 675.

Oh, and both my wife and I have owned Buells. In case you haven't looked recently, EriK Buell (that's with a K !) makes the 1190RX now, which while light, does not ignore power the way you suggest.
Triumph had 190hp+est in 2003 in their little test mule. It was heavy I'm willing to bet too.

Horsepower in 2014.. all big name motorcycles today produce insane numbers.
Gasp even Harley....
Engineering horsepower isn't the same as manufacturing power to the ground.
I'd say Erik with a K (my bad) is doing one heck of a job getting the job done.
I'm sure Triumph has a new generation on the dyno right now and a few tucked on a track this summer. I'm very sure of it.
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Old 03-12-2014, 04:59 PM   #12
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A local bloke...

jeeeeesus christ....... is that an S1000R front end? and I cannot imagine a turbo on an S3.....can not
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Old 03-12-2014, 05:48 PM   #13
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Reality check. Triumph never tried to compete in either 600cc or 1-liter Super-sport categories. They went 675 so that the weren't in competition with the Japanese 600's. It just happens that the 675 chassis and motor were just about perfect for the track, and the re-tuned Street Triple was just about perfect for the street.

The Daytona 955i was a wonderful motorcycle. I wish I had one, even today. But it never competed with the 1-liter class. It was called the gentlemen's super-sport (the ZX-9R was quicker) but the Daytona didn't have the chassis specs of the Honda 954 and subsequent CBR1000R, nor the power of the R1 (albeit way up in the rev range).

Triumphs have always been better on the Street, and have wisely stayed away from the track equipment race from Japan, and more recently KTM's RC-8R and BMW's S1000R. Triumphs have more useable power, great mid-range torque, and they generally sell every bike that they can make without the cost of pursuing racing circuits.

You just have the wrong brand, philosophically, to pursue a 1-liter Super-sport. Now a 1-liter Sport-tourer that is 100 lbs. lighter than a Sprint GT would be a more possible desire from Triumph. The rumored Yamaha FJ-09 may have just thrown down that gauntlet.
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Old 03-12-2014, 05:57 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
Reality check. Triumph never tried to compete in either 600cc or 1-liter Super-sport categories. They went 675 so that the weren't in competition with the Japanese 600's. It just happens that the 675 chassis and motor were just about perfect for the track, and the re-tuned Street Triple was just about perfect for the street.
Triumph TT600 ring a bell ?

Wikipedia, but for what it's worth:
"Shortly after Triumph returned to the American market, the designers set their sights on entering the highly contested 600cc market.[1] The Triumph TT600 was designed in 1996, and produced between the year 2000 and 2003. It was Triumph Motorcycles' first in-line four-cylinder 600 cc sportbike, designed to compete in the world's most competitive motorcycle class, the fuel-injected middleweight category."

The highly improved 675 still competes in the 600 class. As a 3 cylinder, the displacements limits are set higher than a 4 cylinder.
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Old 03-12-2014, 06:06 PM   #15
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Wiki doesn't have it all. The TT600 was a good effort, but Triumph went Triple for the street, not the track. And the rules for 600 didn't originally include the exception. And Triumph never pursued the checkered flag in 1k. Put the company's offerings in historical context. Buy a S1000R or a CBR1000RR or an R1 for 1k. Buy whichever bike feels best to you in 600 (including the 675). Buy a GSX-R750 or an 848/898 for unique middle weight. The field is crowded. Until Yamaha's newest triple, Triumph stands alone in their niche.
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