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Old 02-10-2012, 01:32 PM   #631
RxZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamm View Post
Can a forum newbie (which commutes by bike) participate here?

YES!

The first video: that's one of my greatest fears while in traffic - excessive speed differential between adjacent lanes.
That is a big fear of mine as well. And I do as you do and slow down in that situation.
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:17 PM   #632
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The more distance from surrounding cars, the better. .

Nice thought but NOT TRUE. Being noticed is better and you can't get noticed while hiding.
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:31 PM   #633
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
Nice thought but NOT TRUE. Being noticed is better and you can't get noticed while hiding.
but then when they don't notice you anyway, you have less time to react.

i'm not saying "this way right, that way wrong"...just that there are pros and cons to both approaches.

one thing to keep in mind, though, is that you never actually have control over what the car does. you always have control over what you do.

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Old 02-10-2012, 02:38 PM   #634
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
Nice thought but NOT TRUE. Being noticed is better and you can't get noticed while hiding.
Being noticed AND positioning yourself where you are safe even if they don't see you is really what you want to be doing. Lane position to achieve same should be dynamic, according to prevailing circumstances. There are guidelines, tips and techniques that can be discussed and considered but the best place to be at any given time is entirely situation dependent.

Deliberately aiming for or staying in a gap that you can see is closing and timing your arrival just so you can act all indignant about being cut off is dumb in the extreme. In both the OP's videos that is exactly what he did. In the first instance, I don't think he was wrong to sound the horn as the driver was clearly in the wrong also but the OP need not have been in that situation. In the second one, you can hear the engine note as the OP accelerates then slows again to be exactly by the driver's window as he makes a perfectly reasonable lane change.
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:39 PM   #635
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Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota View Post
but then when they don't notice you anyway, you have less time and to react.
That's how I see it too. And "keeping distance" is different from "hiding".
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:53 PM   #636
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It's seems that there is a culture or etiquette of commuters in each part of the country (and world). When you encounter it, you must adapt appropriately to survive. It's true for the animal kingdom and riders alike. Various situations may call for staying as visible as possible, riding in a certain part of the lane, and maintaining an appropriate cushion of space. What is true in NYC may not be true for San Diego or for FT Smith or Albuquerque. Each of us likes to be the expert here but it appears that each of us adapts in response to the culture of traffic in our domain.

Here in Hampton Roads where the cagers sit in traffic for hours to commute their 18 miles to work, people are impulsive, irritable and full of explosive rage. That's the culture here where a turn signal means a warning for others to get the hell out of their way. They don't look and they especially don't look for bikes.
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Old 02-10-2012, 04:33 PM   #637
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It's seems that there is a culture or etiquette of commuters in each part of the country. When you encounter it, you must adapt appropriately to survive.
Agreed.

I have found that to be true from DC to Denver, Chicago to Houston, and every city in between...
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Old 02-10-2012, 05:27 PM   #638
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Originally Posted by slartidbartfast View Post
Being noticed AND positioning yourself where you are safe even if they don't see you is really what you want to be doing. Lane position to achieve same should be dynamic, according to prevailing circumstances. There are guidelines, tips and techniques that can be discussed and considered but the best place to be at any given time is entirely situation dependent.
This ^^^^^

It's nice if they notice a bike being there but I'd never rely on it ... I could recount lots of examples of drivers looking directly at me and still moving over into my space. Trusting that they will notice is to assume there is a working connection between their eyes and their brain.
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Old 02-10-2012, 09:44 PM   #639
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Back to the videos for a second. I had a similar situation to the first video happen to me before.

I noticed that the rider in the video held his lane (as much as possible) and got on his horn, but when that happened to me, I just got on the brakes and got behind the offending motorist without using my horn. This was due to my instincts and the fact that my horn is about as loud as a mouse fart.

Funny though that the vehicle almost didn't react to the horn and just kept coming over anyway.
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:10 PM   #640
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Originally Posted by J.J. View Post
It's seems that there is a culture or etiquette of commuters in each part of the country (and world). When you encounter it, you must adapt appropriately to survive. It's true for the animal kingdom and riders alike. Various situations may call for staying as visible as possible, riding in a certain part of the lane, and maintaining an appropriate cushion of space. What is true in NYC may not be true for San Diego or for FT Smith or Albuquerque. Each of us likes to be the expert here but it appears that each of us adapts in response to the culture of traffic in our domain.
I used to drive long haul and will agree that traffic varies by city and region, but the actions of bad drives are universal.
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:32 PM   #641
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Originally Posted by mamm View Post

The second one: in that situation, I'd be at that exact same place - left track of the left lane. The more distance from surrounding cars, the better. That's also the best place to start an evasive maneuver (if needed): moving to the completely free corridor (almost another lane) between the left lane and the barrier.
Second video -- the explorer driver had his signal light on for 4 plus flashes.
GSA is driver being a dink for accelerating and not letting the guy change lanes.
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:32 PM   #642
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Hey, I resemble that comment!
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Old 02-15-2012, 10:01 PM   #643
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Hey, I resemble that comment!
Can't say I haven't done that once or twice myself.... I guess us guys with quiet pipes gotta put ourselves in good position
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Old 02-15-2012, 10:42 PM   #644
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Merging in NY burbs.

Commuting home in the dark two nights ago. Made a quick stop and turned right-on-red into right lane of two eastbound lanes. I accelerated quickly to match speed of cars traveling in the left lane, but kept them ahead of me. Just before right lane ended, I noticed headlights come up behind me quickly in the lane to my left. Knowing that my lane would end shortly, I maintained a position just ahead of the headlights and then merged in front of them (slight pucker factor). Headlights tailgated me uncomfortably closely for about a mile before lighting up the red lights - pulled me over for failure to yeild to him . He asked if I would have done it differently if I'd known it was police car - I said absolutely - just being honest - he laughed and let me go with a warning . I'm still not sure what I did wrong or what got his attention (maybe the hi-viz).
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Old 02-16-2012, 07:48 AM   #645
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two parter

Both of these happened to me a few months ago on my commute from boblingen, Germany to Kelly Barracks, stuttgart Germany. Both on my Buell XB12X Ulysses.

#1 while heading in at about 7am The traffic was backing up and coming to a stop for a signal light, I was 15 or 18 vehicles back. I slid over to the left turn lane which was empty to slink up to the front and filter, hopefully catching the green and powering out in front (all legal there). As I slowed and slipped into the left turn lane, my right side case just rubbed/bumped the left rear corner of a BMW sedan, it was my fault so once in front of the vehicle, I turned sround and motioned for the driver to pull over so I could pay or do whatever needed doing to make it right. His girlfriend was yelling at him and giving him a truckload of grief over something. He just waved me on and made a don't worry about it gesture. SUPER COOL GERMAN DUDE.

#2 couple days later, on the way home about 1700hrs. two lanes stoped at light right lane ends about 20 meters after the intersection. I am in the right, BMW Z4 in the left, light changes and the Z4 floors it in an attempt to keep me from getting in front of him I guess. It worked, I slipped in behind him, 100 meters later road curves to right and comes to a congested stop about 25 cars from a stop light. I filter up to the front and leave easily, but not before I stop next to the Z4, raise my visor and say "Nice race car, too bad it's 6 feet wide." the driver says "I thought you were a German, what base are you from" like we were buddies now. I just kept going.

Haters Gonna Hate! They are jealous when we filter to the front in a bad traffic jam, but they gloat when it is very cold and wet. Just haters.

I'm not saying Americans are bad drivers, but after three years of not being passed on the right, everybody using turn signals and mirrors, it is very difficult to keep calm in Indiana.
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vecchio Lupo screwed with this post 02-16-2012 at 07:56 AM Reason: fat fingers
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