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Old 06-15-2011, 09:28 AM   #16
Cortez OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjhess74 View Post
some may disagree, but many manufacturers process for chain tightening puts it too tight. the reason is alot of customers in the past complain about chain noise at the 'proper' adjustment. so the makers go beyond that to increase customer listening pleasures.

any defect or such in a chain could cause vibration, but so could a tire being off balance.

your symptoms really cover a multitude of areas, all i doubt would spring up all at once and i doubt the oil is a causation.

start cheap and easy. check your wheel balance. inspect clutch for slippage, r/r chain AND sprockets, etc. if you can rev the bike at a stand still and it doesnt shake, its likely not the engine.
Yeah, all of that makes perfect sense.. and the tires are new/just balanced

The engine doesn't seem to shake in an unnatural way or anything, and
the performance seems fine. When going WOT through the twisty bits
last weekend other then vibrations being a lot worse then usual the bike
ran just fine.

The surging doesn't occur at anything more then 1-2mm of throttle, the
progression of acceleration (hopefully I'm using the right words here to
describe what I mean) is smooth, there's no hick-ups or anything.

That might suggest that the fueling is fine, right?
If this is all due to the chain then great!

The throttle body sync last year didn't seem to help much..
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Old 06-15-2011, 11:23 AM   #17
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Its not the engine oil.

It could be the chain/sprockets, wheel balance, loose bolts, miss-adjusted chain, throttle bodies out of sync, valves out of adjustment, spark plugs, spark plug leads, - that sort of thing.

It never hurts to have a full custom fuel map built to get the absolute most from an engine, but in my experience the kawak 650Rs are some of the best as far as out-of-the-box fueling.

Your gear shifting symptoms could be engine oil if it has broken down quite badly (and 4k miles is further than is wise to go without an oil change - every 2-3k miles would be better). A dragging clutch will also cause stiff shifting as can a too-tight chain. The too-tight chain is the only item (within reason) that will cause poor shift quality and vibration.
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Old 06-15-2011, 11:55 AM   #18
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Thanks BikePilot, great info!

I've read about the great fueling before I bought the bike and that was one
of the reasons to get it in the first place since surging is something I CAN NOT
live with, and now I'm stuck with it.

Oh well, it's probably fixable!
I guess I'll have to eliminate everything mentioned.
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Old 06-15-2011, 05:24 PM   #19
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If you're noticing vibration at speed I'd also be suspicious of those new tires "just balanced." How and by whom were they balanced? Rear wheel in alignment? You might want to have someone else check all that.
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Old 06-15-2011, 05:33 PM   #20
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How about idle? Range it through RPM see if the engine buzzes as it buzzes when going down the road. Pozdrav.
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Old 06-16-2011, 05:49 AM   #21
Cortez OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a1fa View Post
How about idle? Range it through RPM see if the engine buzzes as it buzzes when going down the road. Pozdrav.
The 'buzz' when I say buzz is the fairings that annoy me, and have gotten
worse also. But the vibrations that I feel can not be heard, only felt, and
I'm pretty sure they're there even at idle. I gotta try it. I keep my bike at
a garage a mile away so..

It's the surging that I gotta get rid of..
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Old 06-16-2011, 07:54 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez View Post

The surging doesn't occur at anything more then 1-2mm of throttle, the
progression of acceleration (hopefully I'm using the right words here to
describe what I mean) is smooth, there's no hick-ups or anything.
chain is bad. replace the sprockets while youre at it. thats a classic bad chain symptom

just cause your tires were just balanced, doesnt mean they are correct.

i would be surprised if thats a mapping issue. thats a computer program and isnt just going to mess up unless youve tinkered with it.

replace your chain and sprockets and report back to us...
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Old 06-17-2011, 10:15 AM   #23
Cortez OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjhess74 View Post
chain is bad. replace the sprockets while youre at it. thats a classic bad chain symptom

just cause your tires were just balanced, doesnt mean they are correct.

i would be surprised if thats a mapping issue. thats a computer program and isnt just going to mess up unless youve tinkered with it.

replace your chain and sprockets and report back to us...
First thing next paycheck!
Thanks!
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Old 06-17-2011, 11:05 AM   #24
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Uuummm... I know you're getting a lot of great suggestions here, but if this were my bike, I would also check on a forum where there are at least a few people who have this same machine. Like a Ninja etc. forum? This quest may go a lot quicker.
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:04 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrannel View Post
Uuummm... I know you're getting a lot of great suggestions here, but if this were my bike, I would also check on a forum where there are at least a few people who have this same machine. Like a Ninja etc. forum? This quest may go a lot quicker.
I'd actually go so far as to recommend the http://www.kawasakiversys.com/ forum. Great place and lots of owners from all over and since the two bikes are closely related they may have some more helpful info for you. I know there are some "Frankenninjas" there as well as a few other Ninjas.

Now, I own a Versys but there is some info that is missing as to why it no longer vibrates. The bike was my brother's who bought it in the fall of '07 when they first hit the states. I wanted to like the bike, but the constant vibes and buzzing fairing put me off the bike when he first got it. My brother had a maintenance plan with the bike and just before it was put away for the winter prior to him passing away, it was serviced. The bike sat, and then I ended up with it about a year later. The bike is now about as smooth as a parallel twin can be and no buzz. He wasn't the type to keep paperwork for things like this, so my guess is the throttlebodies were out of synch prior to service.

Reading further, I do see from other posts that it looks like your chain is shot and needs to be addressed. I'd still think about changing oils too. I had car oil in my EX500 (also parallel twin) for about a day and had various clutch issues, but now running Shell Rotella 15W40 I no longer have any problems.
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:06 PM   #26
Cortez OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrannel View Post
Uuummm... I know you're getting a lot of great suggestions here, but if this were my bike, I would also check on a forum where there are at least a few people who have this same machine. Like a Ninja etc. forum? This quest may go a lot quicker.
Zero results on one kawasaki only and one 650R only forum, and I've been
looking around about the surging issue for almost 2 years now.

A lot of people have suggested that the exhaust burns out (a bit) which
affects fueling and can result in surging. Some said 'get an aftermarket exhaust',
some suggested the power commander, the others both.

That's a lot of money and not something I wanted to invest in.

I just contacted my Wrench guy to find me a chain.. I'll be looking for
DID 520VM or AFAM (don't know which models exist even, but that's
whats universally suggested).
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:14 PM   #27
Cortez OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Not Appearing View Post
I'd actually go so far as to recommend the http://www.kawasakiversys.com/ forum. Great place and lots of owners from all over and since the two bikes are closely related they may have some more helpful info for you. I know there are some "Frankenninjas" there as well as a few other Ninjas.

Now, I own a Versys but there is some info that is missing as to why it no longer vibrates. The bike was my brother's who bought it in the fall of '07 when they first hit the states. I wanted to like the bike, but the constant vibes and buzzing fairing put me off the bike when he first got it. My brother had a maintenance plan with the bike and just before it was put away for the winter prior to him passing away, it was serviced. The bike sat, and then I ended up with it about a year later. The bike is now about as smooth as a parallel twin can be and no buzz. He wasn't the type to keep paperwork for things like this, so my guess is the throttlebodies were out of synch prior to service.

Reading further, I do see from other posts that it looks like your chain is shot and needs to be addressed. I'd still think about changing oils too. I had car oil in my EX500 (also parallel twin) for about a day and had various clutch issues, but now running Shell Rotella 15W40 I no longer have any problems.
That's also great info, thank you, I'll check the Versys site.
I'll change the chain and sprockets first and see what happens, I'll make
another appointment for the rest of the mentioned.

Thanks again and sorry for your loss..
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Old 06-17-2011, 05:49 PM   #28
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Yeah I'm aware that car oil does funny things to a wet clutch, but when I read his post he's been using bike oils pretty much, thats why I said its not the oil :P.
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:05 AM   #29
Cortez OP
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Update!

I just came back from the kawi dealer, they NEVER experienced vibrations
that severe on a ER6/Versys/650R.

First thing they mentioned are engine mounts, they'll check that.
Second thing - clutch (one of the parts of the clutch, I have no idea which one)
Third - crankshaft counterbalance!

Does this make any sense?

The engine mounts were already suggested in this thread and will be the
first thing to check on my friday appointment.

I don't see how or what in the clutch might be causing this, I'll leave that
to youz guyz who know better then me.

And the crankshaft counterbalance (I wasn't even aware there was one in
my bike) is apparently a known issue on the Kawasaki Vulcan VN800 cruiser,
and when that went bad on that bike, the vibrations were supposedly
similar. I was quouted around $150 for the repair of this issue, IF that is
the issue anyways.

I will be changing the chain and oil/oil filter on the same day and see
what happens.

Feel free to share your thoughts on this, I'd appreciate it very much!

Thanks in advance!
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:47 AM   #30
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if the vulcan had a similar issue, then they may be onto something. only do one repair at a time so you will know which one was the problem.

i highly doubt the motor mounts are bad (unless one is not torqued), but i guess stranger things have happened.

$150 to repair the crank counterbalance seems like a deal if you feel the engine with your hand, is it runnig rougher/vibing more than it should?

keep us informed...
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