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Old 06-23-2011, 08:13 AM   #61
Rustytrigger
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Hi, so, in the spring I bought a so-called "demo" bike from I-90 motorsports also. It was a 2010 Adventure 990. Great condition, 1800 miles. When I inquired about maintenance that had been done, they were all like, huh? It was missing the tool-kit and the service manuals and folders. This was after I had confirmed before driving from Boise, that the bike had all of this stuff and the maintenance had been done. They also didn't have any record of any maintenance being done, the oil was dark, and the coolant was way low and they almost seemed put out that I asked them to fill it.

When I got the bike home, I pulled the tanks etc. to change the oil, and the bike was pretty much covered in red dust, from UTAH, certainly not from around the Seattle area and certainly not from being a demo bike.

The bike has been solid though. It experiences some cut out in first and second gear at low rpms when it is warm. Otherwise I've really enjoyed it. I-90 did order tools and the primary chassis manual, but I was disappointed by what they told me and what was reality.

Sounds like they are using "demo" bike as a selling tool for used bikes they find on the market.

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Old 06-23-2011, 09:07 AM   #62
Deviant666
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Originally Posted by patl View Post
I sure wish KTM would have either left ABS on the Adventure R, or made the R's paint scheme available on a different model with ABS. That color scheme is gorgeous! But riding and commuting in the rain, I like the extra safety factor that ABS brings. Sigh.
You can have a custom colour scheme, just look here

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=687178

as for the abs and the R model I agree that they should have made the option available. Taller people that would like the extra travel of the R can't have ABS, that's a BS decision from KTM...

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Old 06-23-2011, 12:29 PM   #63
Adv Grifter
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Looks like this thread has become just another KTM Adventure love fest Well ... go ahead on guys ... after all this is Orange Crush. But be aware there is a world outside KTM.

The Title of this thread implies the new Tiger 800XC/800 would be represented here .. at least be given a fair hearing & actual evaluation. Not happened. Instead we've mostly heard from former or current BMW Kool-Aid guys waxing romantic on their bikes who've never owned a modern Triumph ... and haven't a clue.

Anybody that knows HOW TO RIDE and has ridden BOTH the F800GS vs. Tiger 800XC off road will know which is better. See the MC USA review. They make it pretty feckin' clear:
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/8/1012...g-Comparo.aspx

The KTM adventure is a great bike ... no question on that. But the XC may prove a surprise down the road. So far, I have not seen ONE POST from a Tiger 800XC owner here ... and only one of two have even ridden the bike. (like me)

But I think the XC has potential as a good, reliable, long distance travel bike. It already has proved it's more reliable and less maintenance free than the F800GS's (not hard to do) ... and while current KTM's are quite good ... they had ROUGH beginnings ('03/'04/'05 950's).

The Tiger will need some mods to make it more rideable off road ... weight trimming to shave off unneeded things like stock exhaust, center stand and the addition of usual guards et al.

Suspension upgrades (like every BMW) will also be needed to allow the Tiger to exploit its good chassis. It's got Excel wheels as standard so hopefully not bent wheels like my buddies bike in Baja on early 950. (soft rims)

It's still early days but initial overall reports look pretty good for the Tiger 800. No major issues or recalls. Can BMW say that? Or even KTM for an all new model?

I think the Tiger 800 could be a player and for most doing Adv touring, will be talented enough for mild off road duty fully loaded. Give it a chance guys. Go ride one.
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Old 06-23-2011, 01:06 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Looks like this thread has become just another KTM Adventure love fest Well ... go ahead on guys ... after all this is Orange Crush. But be aware there is a world outside KTM.
True, but to be fair to the OC folk here, that's because I started the thread saying I was shopping for a Tiger 800XC, and when I rode it back to back with a KTM 990 Adv, I totally changed my mind and soul. And this thread "devolved" into me trying to figure out if I could live with a 990 (or a 950, later) as a primary ride. I probably should have spun off another thread for that discussion.

I'd love to hear more thoughts on the Tiger from folks who've ridden both bikes. I think the Tiger's going to be an excellent bike, but it's not quite what I thought it would be for me.
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Old 06-24-2011, 03:00 AM   #65
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I test rode a 800XC for an hour or so a week before I decided on the 990.

My opinion of the 800 was:
Great street bike with gravel and some offroad capabilities. i.e. you would be extremely lucky to keep up with a 990/950 offroad.

Awesome gearbox and very smooth motor.

Footpegs further forward so not as easy for standing long periods.

Not as refined regarding levers, pedals etc. Steel versus alloy as on the KTM's.
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Old 06-24-2011, 12:21 PM   #66
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Own a 950, rode a 800XC and F800GS in U.P. MI

I'd have to agree with the reviews on that link. But some notes to consider. The BMW left my hands numb/buzzy only after less than 100 miles on the slab- but I supposed that can be fixed with better grips, anti-vibration bar ends, etc... The beemer had better suspension than the Triumph off-road, tracked better on the rougher parts. The Tiger was a rocket, it begged to go faster, but on the dirt roads and single-track the power delivery was too much. The high strung engine wanted to spin the rear wheel free, which isn't ideal off-road. Neither bikes have the finer-tuning aspects of the KTM fork.

I think it's hard to choose the wrong bike these days- they're all so good. But hopping back on my KTM feels like home to me- comfortable/familiar. It still induces the sh@%face grins on rides...even after 60K miles. I'm not mechanical by any means, but you do learn to work and appreciate the bike's quirky characteristics. The OrangeCrush is a passionate group and a wealth of knowledge, they have answered all my questions about the KTM, so you will not be alone. Drink the (orange) kool-aid and enjoy the ride!
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Old 06-24-2011, 01:20 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustytrigger View Post
Hi, so, in the spring I bought a so-called "demo" bike from I-90 motorsports also. It was a 2010 Adventure 990. Great condition, 1800 miles. When I inquired about maintenance that had been done, they were all like, huh? It was missing the tool-kit and the service manuals and folders. This was after I had confirmed before driving from Boise, that the bike had all of this stuff and the maintenance had been done. They also didn't have any record of any maintenance being done, the oil was dark, and the coolant was way low and they almost seemed put out that I asked them to fill it.

When I got the bike home, I pulled the tanks etc. to change the oil, and the bike was pretty much covered in red dust, from UTAH, certainly not from around the Seattle area and certainly not from being a demo bike.

The bike has been solid though. It experiences some cut out in first and second gear at low rpms when it is warm. Otherwise I've really enjoyed it. I-90 did order tools and the primary chassis manual, but I was disappointed by what they told me and what was reality.

Sounds like they are using "demo" bike as a selling tool for used bikes they find on the market.

This.sucks.

Did they sell it as "new"? I'm pretty sure that demo bikes are "New" for DOL purposes. Although, I guess that it's possible that somebody got a kickass demo ride (trailer?) down to red dirt country.

That's definitely the scary part of buying a demo bike - that, and most demo rides make the Motoman breakin technique look positively bland by comparison.
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Old 06-24-2011, 01:52 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
The Title of this thread implies the new Tiger 800XC/800 would be represented here .. at least be given a fair hearing & actual evaluation. Not happened. Instead we've mostly heard from former or current BMW Kool-Aid guys waxing romantic on their bikes who've never owned a modern Triumph ... and haven't a clue.

Well, I don't have a clue either, but I will throw my $.02 in.

Orange Crush Poser Disclosure: I have never ridden a KTM ADV 990/950… that said I have been wanting one ever since they came out. I remember the first one I ever saw when I was an expat working in Brasil in 2004, and I thought it was the coolest thing ever. Long story short, never had the time/money/interest/stability to really pursue getting one until a couple years ago, but still have not found one as they are unrepresented in my area, having been through the time waste of at least 3 semi-local KTM dealers that either didn’t sell them, or didn't even know what they were to tell me they didn't sell them. Even trying to go the used route, looking for various LC8’s in SM, SE, or ADV-S/R guise with varying levels of ambition, but never been able to close a deal.

But I do have a BMW and Triumph dealer, and I have a Triumph! I love my Daytona 955i and the smooth power it makes, with a wicked and unique sound, and other than random oil leaks which are easy to resolve it has been bulletproof, fun, fast(150hp woot!), and economical (45-55mpg). So when the 800XC came out my interest was piqued. What I wanted was a jack of all trades (master of none) bike that I could commute on, ride to the Mtns and explore any road/trail (with 21" wheel and decent suspension), and be capable of taking the Mrs along occasionally. It should be more fun to ride than sitting in a cage, but compromises to performance should be expected due to a broad focus. Basically I wanted something that would fill the hole I have always wanted a 9x0 to fill. I spent a few weeks reading comparisons to the 800GS and XC800 and finally went to demo both of them at my local dealer where I bought my Daytona new (prospect of a generous trade-in didn't hurt my motivation to evaluate the 800XC as an acceptable ADV substitute).

The GS is a perfectly competent bike, but completely void of any emotion. The stuff I knew going into it was more disappointing in person (lack of power, etc.), but the stuff I didn’t were things like how closely spaced the gearing was and the terrible ABS (told I couldn’t get a bike without it!???). When price is considered it was too much money for something that is only a good decision on paper.

The Tiger 800XC was even more of a disappointment, I actually liked the GS even though I didn’t want to (if it was priced lower it would be a viable compromise)… but I really wanted to like the XC and I just couldn’t. The ergonomics are terrible for anything offroad, IMO. It has a sportbike-like seat that is way too low even in the high position relative to the pegs. On the GS at least I could slide back on the seat for room (I’m 6’4” 36” inseam) but on the tiger I was really cramped. The engine had had terrible popping from backfire that sounded at first like the front spokes were untensioned. It does have more zip than the GS up top, and it will probably have a great distinctive subtle bark and better response once you eliminate the cat and remap the ECU. The real downer is the gearbox spacing was worse than the GS, though the triple has a larger usable rev range, it still defeats the purpose of being able to do everything. If you gear it so you can cruise at 80mph all day, 1st gear is only good for >20mph, gear it down so you can ride unpaved roads and non-technical trails, and you are buzzing like a SuMo thumper down the slab. I can fix the seat, the fueling, and the ergos, but tough to fix the transmission ratios. And of course you still haven’t factored in the non-adjustable suspension that will have to be upgraded. The price is lower and to me seemed a better value than the GS, but sitting next to a Daytona 675 with decent suspension it seemed to be a poor value equation too. I didn't even care if they gave me 2x what my 955i was worth, the demo ride was enough to realize I didn't want the 800XC at any price.


Both 800’s seemed like bikes aimed at entry level/inexperienced motorcyclists and/or those that value reliability above performance. Both bikes just seemed too vanilla and soft with obvious cost cutting. Both felt compromised for cost, paradoxically at the cost of performance rather than focus. There was just no visceral appeal for me at all once I tasted them off the showroom floor. I wish I could compare and contrast the 990 ADV, but I just don’t have a dealer anywhere near Charlotte, NC to be able to do so, for now I demo vicariously through the OC.

So for what it is worth, having never ridden a 990 ADV, I choose it over the 800XC. Still looking for that elusive slightly used, fairly priced 990R, or 950S or 950SE that is within driving distance… or maybe I should just buy a new ADV 990R, which when considering the suspension and engine seems a much better value proposition to me than either the 800GS or the XC800.
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Old 06-24-2011, 02:00 PM   #69
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Driving Distance 990 R

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilmar13 View Post

So for what it is worth, having never ridden a 990 ADV, I choose it over the 800XC. Still looking for that elusive slightly used, fairly priced 990R, or 950S or 950SE that is within driving distance… or maybe I should just buy a new ADV 990R, which when considering the suspension and engine seems a much better value proposition to me than either the 800GS or the XC800.
I'm not sure how far "driving distance" is to you, but I know of two new ones on the floor here in Seattle area, and I ran into a lightly used one in AZ or NM or something.

Surely that's only a couple days' drive back home to you
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Old 06-24-2011, 02:21 PM   #70
wilmar13
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I'm not sure how far "driving distance" is to you, but I know of two new ones on the floor here in Seattle area, and I ran into a lightly used one in AZ or NM or something.

Surely that's only a couple days' drive back home to you
heh heh... yeah, that is true. I have been close to pulling the trigger on fly and rides, but that is scary to do without even sitting on one.

The one in AZ was in Tuscon but I think it is gone...
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Old 06-24-2011, 07:24 PM   #71
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http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=700888

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Old 06-24-2011, 08:10 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by wilmar13 View Post
I wish I could compare and contrast the 990 ADV, but I just don’t have a dealer anywhere near Charlotte, NC to be able to do so, for now I demo vicariously through the OC.
I'm 30 minutes west of Charlotte with a 950SE you can try. I'm also 6'4" with a 36" inseam, so my bike would feel like it was tailored for you. Not a 990Adv, but at least you could get a feel for the LC8 platform.
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Old 06-25-2011, 07:11 AM   #73
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I'm 30 minutes west of Charlotte with a 950SE you can try. I'm also 6'4" with a 36" inseam, so my bike would feel like it was tailored for you. Not a 990Adv, but at least you could get a feel for the LC8 platform.
That is a very generous offer, and I will have to take you up on it.
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Old 07-14-2011, 05:35 PM   #74
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Still looking for the elusive 990R?
JT Motorsports in Frederick, MD has a 2010 990R with Jesse bags and SWM crash bar on Ebay right now. Not too far from NC.
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Old 07-15-2011, 03:18 AM   #75
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Hello!

Just a quick comparisson of the 990 Adv, Tiger 800XC and 800GS.

I had owned the 800GS for about 1.5 years, but had some pretty serious engine problems right from the beginning (worn pistons/cylinders after only 750km as a demo bike), which resulted in an engine replacement on warranty. So my trust in the long term stability of the 800 is not too good. Otherwise: nice bike, good for both long distances on asphalt as for unpaved roads. Replaced it Nov 2010 with a 990 Adv

What a fun machine! The engines likes to go on some higher revs than the BMW machine, but then it really pulls your arms long! Fuel consumption is ok, but not as low as the BMWs. On the BMW i got down to 4.3l/100km, the lowest I had recently on the 990 Adv was 5.5. But with a lot more fun! Right from the beginning I felt saver on the Adv at even higher speeds on gravel, than on the 800GS, so the KTM's chassi is definetly superiour.

And a quick judgement of the Tiger 800XC: borrowed one for a test ride. Riding position does not really fit me: the handle bar is too far away and too wide. The 990Adv is just perfect for me, both sitting and standing in the pegs. Engine of the XC is otherwise great, almost no vibrations, fantastic elasticity but guys (and girls) come on: more than two cylinders on an adventure bike??? Definetly not a bad bike, but my personal ranking of those three is

Tiger 800XC (good) > BMW F800GS (better) > 990Adv (best)

Of course this is totally personal and subjective.
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