ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Face plant
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-25-2012, 01:08 AM   #751
It'sNotTheBike
Banned
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Oddometer: 704
Quote:
Originally Posted by reenmachine View Post
Don't get me wrong, I can't help but scope out the fork bosses all the time.
Just curious -- do you have X-ray vision ?

The reason I ask is that you will need such vision to detect a crack which
begins on the inside of the fork tube. Such a crack might not be apparent
from the outside to the naked eye until the very moment the fork fails.

I hope that all you people come to your senses before a tragedy which
is entirely avoidable occurs.


.
It'sNotTheBike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 08:31 AM   #752
reenmachine
Rain or Shine
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Location: Studio City, CA
Oddometer: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sNotTheBike View Post
What boggles my mind is how the people who own these bikes can continue riding the
bikes when so much remains unknown. Are your lives really worth less than a new set of forks costs ?
Sure, you wouldn't admit to that, but every time you ride the bike with OEM forks that is exactly the bargain
you have made, whether you admit it or not.

To me, the price of a new set of forks, even Ohlins or other high dollar examples,
is trivial compared to the risk of fork failure which is incurred when riding the
bike with OEM forks. If you were in charge of an airline
company and you made such decisions relative to questionable parts and a plane
crashed and people died, no punishment would be too severe. Yet you are making
a similar choice if you ride with the OEM forks, and you are not only risking your own
lives, you are possibly endangering others on the road. And that makes you a person of
questionable morality, since you have chosen to share the risk with the rest of us
despite the fact that we do not deserve to be a victim of your poor choices.


I anticipate you deniers will want to call me a troll in order to make yourselves more
comfortable. That would be expected. But what I really am is a person
who sees a very serious risk which is impossible to quantify on one side of the scale and
the relatively small cost of eliminating the risk entirely on the other side of the scale.
This equation is absurd. If my wife had one of these bikes I would lock the bike up
so she could not ride it until I had installed new forks. Good grief, don't you people
understand that a human life exceeds the value of everything you could ever possibly own ?

Some of you must have wives, or husbands, or children, or parents, or maybe all of the
above. Why don't you ask them what they think about whether you should get a new set
of forks. I bet not a single one says no.


.
IMO your logic here is beyond comprehension. To call me a person of questionable morality for riding my G? Really? That is the mother of all overreactions. If you choose to see a "very serious risk" here that's your prerogative, but don't go calling me a baby killer because of your paranoia.

There is all of one anecdotal report of a fork failure on a current-generation fork. That report consisted of a handful of pics with zero analytical information. That's it.

If I let that scare me away from riding this bike, I would also have to avoid doing pretty much everything else I do in life, including driving a car, flying on an airplane, riding my mountain bike, going out of city limits, staying in city limits, eating unfamiliar foods, and having sex. I certainly shouldn't be out riding a motorcycle in the first place! I accept far, far greater risk every time I throw a leg over a bike than this supposed issue will ever present.

And yes, yes I do have X-Ray vision.
__________________
'14 KTM 1190 Adventure
'11 BMW G650GS
'02 Yamaha FZ1
reenmachine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 09:08 AM   #753
Center-stand
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Oddometer: 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by reenmachine View Post

I certainly shouldn't be out riding a motorcycle in the first place! I accept far, far greater risk every time I throw a leg over a bike than this supposed issue will ever present.
+1, again.
Center-stand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 10:03 AM   #754
twinjet
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Oddometer: 306
Focus

It's good to have a forum where we can express our thoughts on this matter. This very important matter.
Here's my humble opinion. Motorcycles are wheeled vehicles. The wheels should never fall off a wheeled vehicle. Never.
BMW needs to step up and resolve this for the motorcycling community.
twinjet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 11:33 AM   #755
henrymartin
Mr. Tourguide
 
henrymartin's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: South of the Great North Woods
Oddometer: 3,215
Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sNotTheBike View Post
What boggles my mind is how the people who own these bikes can continue riding the
bikes when so much remains unknown. Are your lives really worth less than a new set of forks costs ?
Sure, you wouldn't admit to that, but every time you ride the bike with OEM forks that is exactly the bargain
you have made, whether you admit it or not.

To me, the price of a new set of forks, even Ohlins or other high dollar examples,
is trivial compared to the risk of fork failure which is incurred when riding the
bike with OEM forks. If you were in charge of an airline
company and you made such decisions relative to questionable parts and a plane
crashed and people died, no punishment would be too severe. Yet you are making
a similar choice if you ride with the OEM forks, and you are not only risking your own
lives, you are possibly endangering others on the road. And that makes you a person of
questionable morality, since you have chosen to share the risk with the rest of us
despite the fact that we do not deserve to be a victim of your poor choices.


I anticipate you deniers will want to call me a troll in order to make yourselves more
comfortable. That would be expected. But what I really am is a person
who sees a very serious risk which is impossible to quantify on one side of the scale and
the relatively small cost of eliminating the risk entirely on the other side of the scale.
This equation is absurd. If my wife had one of these bikes I would lock the bike up
so she could not ride it until I had installed new forks. Good grief, don't you people
understand that a human life exceeds the value of everything you could ever possibly own ?

Some of you must have wives, or husbands, or children, or parents, or maybe all of the
above. Why don't you ask them what they think about whether you should get a new set
of forks. I bet not a single one says no.


.
So, point me to a plug and play set of forks for the 650GS. The various YZ (and the like) conversions have their own issues, introducing new dangers to the equation. You would think, by now, if this was such an issue, someone in the aftermarket would have stepped up and started producing stronger, better forks that would bolt right up. After all, there are thousands of death machines on the road that are in immediate need for change, less their riders all want to die. Give me a break!

As for the conversions, I really don;t see how mickeymousing a set of forks from a lighter bike is going to improve safety on a bike that is faster, much heavier, and has a different rake angle.

In my opinion, I take a much greater risk every time I throw my leg over my 1989 KLR250 with offset mounted bosses, go in the woods, and ride the shit out of a 23 year old fork set in speeds I would never subject the heavy beemer to off-road. (due to its weight and ground clearance). I take a chance riding on a 23 year old bike with 23 year old bolts, fatigued frame, and inadequate suspension.

I better sell my beemer right now, sell the tired KLR too, and my CB, XS, and CB 550 Four, because they are all either tired or unsafe, and then I can sit in front of the screen and pretend to be a rider while giving other people advice about their bike which I don't even own.

Right
henrymartin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 11:44 AM   #756
twinjet
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Oddometer: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by henrymartin View Post
So, point me to a plug and play set of forks for the 650GS. The various YZ (and the like) conversions have their own issues, introducing new dangers to the equation. You would think, by now, if this was such an issue, someone in the aftermarket would have stepped up and started producing stronger, better forks that would bolt right up. After all, there are thousands of death machines on the road that are in immediate need for change, less their riders all want to die. Give me a break!

As for the conversions, I really don;t see how mickeymousing a set of forks from a lighter bike is going to improve safety on a bike that is faster, much heavier, and has a different rake angle.

In my opinion, I take a much greater risk every time I throw my leg over my 1989 KLR250 with offset mounted bosses, go in the woods, and ride the shit out of a 23 year old fork set in speeds I would never subject the heavy beemer to off-road. (due to its weight and ground clearance). I take a chance riding on a 23 year old bike with 23 year old bolts, fatigued frame, and inadequate suspension.

I better sell my beemer right now, sell the tired KLR too, and my CB, XS, and CB 550 Four, because they are all either tired or unsafe, and then I can sit in front of the screen and pretend to be a rider while giving other people advice about their bike which I don't even own.

Right
Have the forks on any of those bikes ever failed?
twinjet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 11:47 AM   #757
slide
A nation in despair
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: NM, USA
Oddometer: 21,119
Quote:
Originally Posted by henrymartin View Post
So, point me to a plug and play set of forks for the 650GS. The various YZ (and the like) conversions have their own issues, introducing new dangers to the equation. You would think, by now, if this was such an issue, someone in the aftermarket would have stepped up and started producing stronger, better forks that would bolt right up. After all, there are thousands of death machines on the road that are in immediate need for change, less their riders all want to die. Give me a break!

As for the conversions, I really don;t see how mickeymousing a set of forks from a lighter bike is going to improve safety on a bike that is faster, much heavier, and has a different rake angle.

In my opinion, I take a much greater risk every time I throw my leg over my 1989 KLR250 with offset mounted bosses, go in the woods, and ride the shit out of a 23 year old fork set in speeds I would never subject the heavy beemer to off-road. (due to its weight and ground clearance). I take a chance riding on a 23 year old bike with 23 year old bolts, fatigued frame, and inadequate suspension.

I better sell my beemer right now, sell the tired KLR too, and my CB, XS, and CB 550 Four, because they are all either tired or unsafe, and then I can sit in front of the screen and pretend to be a rider while giving other people advice about their bike which I don't even own.

Didn't someone mfg steel caps which would reinforce the bosses under question? Seems to me that this would be a MUCH better solution than mucking with new forks. I'd sell before then. The conversions I've read about work only for those who are machinists, etc & so can do a good deal of custom work.
__________________
Why be born again when you can just grow up?
slide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 02:02 PM   #758
ER70S-2
Beastly Adventurer
 
ER70S-2's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: SE Denver-ish
Oddometer: 4,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinjet View Post
Here's my humble opinion. Motorcycles are wheeled vehicles. The wheels should never fall off a wheeled vehicle. Never.
__________________
2004 DR650: 59,658 miles
2013 WR250R

SUZUKI DR650SE INFORMATION INDEX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie View Post
"BTW, I don't do style. It's a dirt bike, not some girlie dress-up thing." -
ER70S-2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 02:06 AM   #759
spudboy52
Almost a Yooper
 
spudboy52's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: Northern Wisconsin
Oddometer: 41
Fork Safety Bracket

I made a safety bracket for the right fork of my 2001 F650GS.

spudboy52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 01:43 PM   #760
Pantah
Red Sox Nation
 
Pantah's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: India Wharf
Oddometer: 9,956
Clif notes version. What happened with the OP and BMW? Was it resolved?

Sorry, I waded through a couple months but couldn't find it.
__________________
Straight ahead and faster -Bo Weaver 1970
"There I was..." -Griffin Niner Three Hotel
"One day closer to a parade..." Jonny Gomes, spring training 2013
Pantah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 01:51 PM   #761
slide
A nation in despair
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: NM, USA
Oddometer: 21,119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantah View Post
Clif notes version. What happened with the OP and BMW? Was it resolved?

Sorry, I waded through a couple months but couldn't find it.
The OP disappeared. Speculation here that she settled with BMW but signed a confidentiality agreement along with that settlement.

No facts, though.
__________________
Why be born again when you can just grow up?
slide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 02:26 PM   #762
dwayne
Silly Adventurer
 
dwayne's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: wheelie in purgatory, Calgary
Oddometer: 3,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by slide View Post
Didn't someone mfg steel caps which would reinforce the bosses under question? Seems to me that this would be a MUCH better solution than mucking with new forks. I'd sell before then. The conversions I've read about work only for those who are machinists, etc & so can do a good deal of custom work.
The problem with that is you still have a substandard front fork that may leave you stranded.

The stock forks pretty basic damper rod forks, that allow TONS of flex, and pack up on rough descents. I have replaced my stock forks with WP 50mm extremes (conventional cartridge forks), more for rideabiliy than the boss failure issue. For those who doubt the strength of the YZ forks, I believe the YZ units are 43 or 48mm inverted (stronger design) compared to the 41mm conventional stock size. Keeo in mind that while though YZ forks are on a much lighter bike, not many people air out an F650 like an MX bike. If you are concerned about rake you can change that by using offset triple clamps (common items for in the aftermarket MX world). The issue that I would have is running brakes speced for a 230lb bike at less than highway speeds on a 400+ lb bike (not counting luggage) capable of traveling at up to 100mph.

No I am not a machinist, the "custom work" involved making a bracket to retain the key lock, and yes it was worth the effort. In spades. And the bosses won't fail.
__________________
Rum Runners Yukon, NWT & Alaska
Roads and Ruins Scotland
Kinbasket Lake Golden B.C.

A "Day" of Dirt Biking Rockies East Slopes
High and Dry Colorado and Utah


"When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail"

dwayne screwed with this post 10-09-2012 at 02:35 PM
dwayne is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 02:38 PM   #763
slide
A nation in despair
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: NM, USA
Oddometer: 21,119
Fine, but it seems silly to me that the first move in properly equipping a bike is to replace the entire front end.

What was the cost of doing so?
__________________
Why be born again when you can just grow up?
slide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 02:59 PM   #764
dwayne
Silly Adventurer
 
dwayne's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: wheelie in purgatory, Calgary
Oddometer: 3,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by slide View Post
Fine, but it seems silly to me that the first move in properly equipping a bike is to replace the entire front end.

What was the cost of doing so?
Less than $500 (the forks were used), It wasn't my first move in equipping the bike, but the forks just weren't keeping up with the terrain I was starting to ride with the full adventure load out, I didn't replace the entire front end. I replaced the triple clamps, fork tubes and I needed a (used) brake caliper from an older KTM 620 adventure. As a bonus the head bearings are a 2 minute job to adjust and now requires less tools than a stock KLR.

The biggest draw backs that I have are a decreased turning radius and the amount of fluid required to fill those massive tubes.

I should also say that I do not have the current generation. It makes much more sense when the bike is older.
__________________
Rum Runners Yukon, NWT & Alaska
Roads and Ruins Scotland
Kinbasket Lake Golden B.C.

A "Day" of Dirt Biking Rockies East Slopes
High and Dry Colorado and Utah


"When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail"

dwayne screwed with this post 10-09-2012 at 03:08 PM
dwayne is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 07:15 PM   #765
WayneC1
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Oddometer: 1,909
Re AntiqueWidow, she did no settlement with BMW, she alerted people to the problem with this thread, her insurance co wrote the machine off and she moved on with life & a new machine, considering some which has been written in this thread I am not surprised she chooses not to respond

Re fork swaps, the thought that the YZ or WP forks are not as strong as the GS forks overall is ignoring the fact that manufacturers design forks once then use them across the board on all machines changing parts to suit the length and damping, travel etc needed on each model

An example is the WP forks for the KTM's, the 4860's are used from 125cc through to the 990 with common parts on all
WayneC1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 11:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014