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Old 07-10-2013, 12:04 PM   #406
Cris
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Originally Posted by groundrules View Post
Hey Cris,
Do you think that this break-in period is due to the barrel leading up or to the action/powerplant smoothing out? In other words, do you think the 1000-round period applies to gas piston as well as springers? I ask because I still feel like my new gun (150-200 rounds, maybe; nitro piston) is not grouping all that well. Wondering if it'll get better, or if it's just me.

I also own an old school Beeman/Theoben RX1 (gas ram) that I purchased new and it still took over 1,000 rounds to settle in...

The majority of the break-in is leading the barrel, but there is also settling that takes place in the action. AND the shooter as well, when it comes to the particular nunaces of the rifle in your hands at the time. They all shoot differently.

I hate to say this but I have been in this game a long time and I have set up a lot of rigs (air and centerfire) for competition, hunting, and plinking, and there are 'shooters' (what I call a good example of a particular gun,) and guns that don't ever wanna sort themselves out. You only find out through trial and error sometimes. Keep at it, and if does not perform to your liking within the 1,000-2,000 round spectrum you will have to determine for yourself whether it’s worth chasing your tail with a rig that won’t group.

There is a lot going on in a precision air rifle, and when it is all working harmoniously, she will group perfectly for thousands and thousands of rounds with little drama. Wish I could say that about most of the ladies I know or have known!

Stick with it and I hope she turns out to be a ‘shooter’ for you!! You need to pile up a bunch more rounds before you get too frustrated.

Keep checking stock screws and your sights/optics. Keep your shooting at 15-20 yards until you feel she is performing well.

Thanks!
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:31 PM   #407
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Originally Posted by bergermeister View Post
sorry, haven't read all the foregoing so this may have been discussed, but...

can someone recommend a reasonably priced air gun for possums and rats around the yard?

Thanks gents

This can be a conundrum…

First let me say this. I have put a bunch of folks into ‘higher end’ air rifles and not one person has come back to me with regrets. AND BTW, this is a hobby for me and I do not profit in any way, shape, or form other than seeing people learn to love a new hobby!

The fact that someone can appreciate, and is intrested, in the merits of a high quality instrument of any kind is a great start to a life long hobby.

I often use the phrase, “A poor man can only afford the best,” which moves right into the “cry once” philosophy.

I have spent far too much time trying to set up low end air rifles for friends, and friends of friends, who weren’t sure they wanted to spend the extra money upfront for a rifle that could be handed down to their great-grand kids.

Ultimately what happens with these rifles is that the shooter becomes frustrated and the instrument gathers dust for lack of executing properly.

Please understand that I completely understand that economics comes into play for budgeting an air rifle. I get that. And if someone is only interested in ‘minute-of-beer-can’ at 10 paces, the big-box store air rifles might be fine for someones particular expectations. At the same time, please also expect that kill ratios on vermin will be quite poor, and it’s no fun having to retrieve a wounded/dead tree rat (squirrel) that did the John Wayne dying-cowboy-drag into the neighbor’s yard from the result of a poor shooting rig.

Also know that a precision airgun can easily turn aspirin tablets into dust at 30 yards with great repeatability if the shooter does his or her part. And for many many years with simple maintenance.

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but ‘good’ and ‘inexpensive’ cannot be used to describe an air rifle.

Most every online-retailer of higher end air rifles are stand up folks and will NOT steer you wrong. I have dealt with most of them for many years. It is a small community and it only takes pissing off a small number of people before their business would go away through word of mouth alone.

I love this hobby and I am telling you what I learned, and have seen people learn, the hard way so please do not take offense to my candor.

Thanks!
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:46 PM   #408
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I was at the point where I would think as I squeezed one off: "this oughta be interesting..."
LOL, totally.
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:53 PM   #409
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Cris,
Thanks for the counsel, I'll keep at it.
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Old 07-10-2013, 01:14 PM   #410
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Cris, would a Weihrauch HW90 be considered high-end?

Just wondering if that would be a factor in my low-end results (see posts some months back).
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Old 07-10-2013, 01:22 PM   #411
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Originally Posted by Nailhead View Post
Cris, would a Weihrauch HW90 be considered high-end?

Just wondering if that would be a factor in my low-end results (see posts some months back).
Yes!! HW90 is a great rig!

Low-end results would not be commensurate with an HW90.

Hmmm. I will look at your posts and see what seems might be the issue.

Thanks!
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Old 07-10-2013, 01:58 PM   #412
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Cris,
Thanks for the counsel, I'll keep at it.
Yep, good advice Chris
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Old 07-10-2013, 03:29 PM   #413
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Interesting thread!
I spent many, many hours in my folks' back yard shooting cans and such with a Sheridan air rifle.



To this day, I have no idea where it came from or where it went but many, many happy hours were spent out on that back stoop trying to get that perfect shot...... and man did my arms get stronger pumping that thing hundreds of times a day!
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:25 PM   #414
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but ‘good’ and ‘inexpensive’ cannot be used to describe an air rifle.
sorry but that's not correct ... there are few good and inexpensive air rifles. not many but there are some.

don't get me wrong what you say is generally true. but it's quite possible to get into a fine air rifle without spending an arm and a leg.

1. Rocker Safety Blue Streak (pic above) are good as they come at any price. nice trigger, reasonable accuracy, plenty powerful for most small critters, quality built, etc, etc. they pop up all the time for about $100 ... a rocker safety silver streak can go for 3x+ more in mint condition.

modded versions by Tim at Mac1 are called Steroid Streaks and costs about $325 range.

2. Crossman MK1 air pistol costs about $125 and are good as it gets. Mac1 modifies into an LD with hangy tanks, etc.. accurate out to 100yds. takes out squirrels with ease.

3. used Beeman R-7 or R-9 or R-1 can be found very reasonable. world class German engineering. prices range $150-$500+ depending on cosmetic condition and tune.

there's more examples out there ... QB 78/79 Chinese air rifles have an excellent reputation for dirt cheap ...

don't get me wrong .. got a slew of high end air rifles ... if one does research, it's quite possible to get started with world class airguns for not much $$$...

almost forgot .. my old Baikal IZH-46M .. one of the best 10 meter air pistols made... seems I paid about $250 a few years back... NO it's not a Steyr LP10 ($1,900), but most folks are not talented enough to appreciate the difference.


_cy_ screwed with this post 07-10-2013 at 07:40 PM
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:53 PM   #415
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http://www.crosman.com/nrftc

Google Maps: http://goo.gl/maps/1IRhq



Schedule

Friday, July 12th
9:00 a.m. - 3:00 p.m. Practice range open
1:00 p.m. Crosman facility tour
2:00 p.m. Quigley Bucket Challenge

Quigley Bucket Challenge Rules: Best of 5 shots at a 1.75" bucket placed at 55 yards,
10-meter gun (6.5 ftlb limit), Open and Iron Sights or non-magnified sights only.

(Guns will be available for those who do not have the proper equipment but wish to compete).

Saturday, July 13th
7:00 a.m. - 8:30 am Practice range open
9:00 a.m. Match begins
12:30 p.m. Lunch begins (approximately)
Following lunch - Pistol match begins

Sunday, July 14th
7:00 a.m. - 8:00 a.m. Practice range open
9:00 a.m. Match begins
1:30 p.m. Awards Presentation (approximately)


George
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Old_Lion screwed with this post 07-10-2013 at 10:04 PM
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:01 PM   #416
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Sheridan history

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2006/...ariations.html

http://ujays.net/sheridan.html

I have a Blue Streak which is still in great condition.
It was mail ordered and shipped from
Sheridan Products Inc. of Racine, Wisconsin many many decades ago.

George
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:17 PM   #417
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who wouldn't want a Sheridan Super Grade!

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Old 07-11-2013, 08:28 AM   #418
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Originally Posted by _cy_ View Post
sorry but that's not correct ... there are few good and inexpensive air rifles. not many but there are some.

don't get me wrong what you say is generally true. but it's quite possible to get into a fine air rifle without spending an arm and a leg.

1. Rocker Safety Blue Streak (pic above) are good as they come at any price. nice trigger, reasonable accuracy, plenty powerful for most small critters, quality built, etc, etc. they pop up all the time for about $100 ... a rocker safety silver streak can go for 3x+ more in mint condition.

modded versions by Tim at Mac1 are called Steroid Streaks and costs about $325 range.

2. Crossman MK1 air pistol costs about $125 and are good as it gets. Mac1 modifies into an LD with hangy tanks, etc.. accurate out to 100yds. takes out squirrels with ease.

3. used Beeman R-7 or R-9 or R-1 can be found very reasonable. world class German engineering. prices range $150-$500+ depending on cosmetic condition and tune.

there's more examples out there ... QB 78/79 Chinese air rifles have an excellent reputation for dirt cheap ...

don't get me wrong .. got a slew of high end air rifles ... if one does research, it's quite possible to get started with world class airguns for not much $$$...

almost forgot .. my old Baikal IZH-46M .. one of the best 10 meter air pistols made... seems I paid about $250 a few years back... NO it's not a Steyr LP10 ($1,900), but most folks are not talented enough to appreciate the difference.
Yeah, I guess what I should have expressed more clearly is that the benchmark for ‘inexpensive’ can be somewhat subjective.

From countless conversations I have had on the topic, folks who are not close to the sport seem to think that spending $80-120 at the local basketball-baseball-golf-and-general-sports-mega-store, can get them a fine springer, cuz “…what can be so different from one to the other, right? They all look the same.” This is what I hear… Also, “Well I can buy a nice .22 rim fire (Ruger 1022 or comparable) for about $100-150 so why would I spend that same amount or more for an air gun??”

So I don’t golf… And it is beyond my comprehension why my Buddies will spend $500 for a single golf club! Just ONE! No matter how long you make me sit and listen. Never. Ever. In one million years. Can I comprehend this. It is my opinion that the set of clubs for sale down the street at the local garage sale can easily execute the crappy state of condition that plagues the scores of MOST golfers. Just a vague guess on my part. But I do know that my Friends with thousands of dollars into golfing, are sure not up to the task that their gear would indicate. They ARE having a great time though and that’s what matters. They also know that the only excuse they have is that they need to put in more time and their gear is not going to slow them up any if it’s in the stars that they are going to become the next Arnold Woods or whatever his name is.

I have let folks who have very little shooting time, yet a curious hunger, spend a couple hours shooting my rigs and they are now life long supporters and enthusiasts of the shooting sports.

By all means, yes, I have put several folks into used R7’s and R9’s. I have both and they are great! But, a well sorted and well treated R7 or R9 are not easily found and still hold a premium beyond what the new air gun shooter is expecting. Especially since Beeman has been sold and the golden years are all but gone.

I have shot a couple USFTs and MAC1 is a great proponent for the sport. I have some of Tim’s gear on my field target rigs. I personally am not a fan of multi-pump pneumatics or dealing with CO2 curve variance, but different strokes for different folks. His work is not cheap and be prepared to wait.

I have owned and shot a few QBs and some were good and some were not so good. Kind of a crapshoot but they can be much better than a comparably priced rifle elsewhere.

My best bro has an Izzy 46M and I really like it, but I brought it to one of my air gun mechanics due to malfunction and he had to wait over 2 months for commonly replaced parts. The current cost for a 46M is $600 if you can find one.

Please understand that I am not trying to come off as argumentative, but rather express my experiences so that others can make their own decisions.

Another component that has yet to be discussed is optics… Additional (and potentially significant) cost.

People are typically unaware that a double-recoil springer that can destroy a scope not designed to support the reticle in a proper fashion. Hence the ‘air gun scope’ discussion takes place and folks now start to squirm. In addition, drooper mounts are almost always a necessity. Otherwise be prepared to shim the scope or bend your barrel, and do it correctly. Drooper scope mounts alone are north of $50.

I also use cheap rings ($8) and shim to correct for droop in some applications. Doesn’t mean that everyone will want to spend a lot of time executing this properly. On some of my rigs, I run matched set and lapped Badger Ordnance 30mm rings that I adore. Wrapped around Leupold Mark 4 glass so I kind of run the spectrum on optics and set ups.

Then they say, “Well I’ll just use iron sights.” That’s fine, but why would you invest in a precision instrument capable of headshots on a ground squirrel at 30m only to limit it’s use by the naked eye and iron sights?? Counterproductive in my view.

Yes, some Centerforce and Hawke scopes are more affordable and strong enough, but the costs still start to add up.

In my opinion, (and for someone not necessarily interested in sourcing a used air rifle that was treated properly,) folks should be calling a reputable online air shop for a Weihrauch, RWS, or comparable springer and scope combo and be prepared to spend a little bit of moolah. These shops will also help you with advice and support down the line.

Someone who has taken the plunge will find themselves excited, proud, and striving to shoot more and more often, with consistent results.

I know guys with more than one ‘affordable’ air gun propped in the corner of the garage because they can’t hit their mark or the inconsistency is too aggravating. I then hand them my box stock R9 (I have easily run over 20,000 rounds through this one) with a modest scope and they regularly tag a bottle cap at 20 yards right out of the gate. They light up like little girls in cheer camp(!) and ask me to make them a list of what they need to get. After a while, I then hand them my Full Paul Watts HW97 and they are in disbelief of it’s capabilities, smoothness, trigger, and overall feel.

I guess my primary point in all of this is that anyone who is already intrigued, interested, or steeped into the shooting sports will likely not regret saving a little longer and ending up with (in the grand scheme of air-riflery) a *modestly* priced springer that will serve them for many years.

…And as always YMMV.

Sorry if I am rambling on and wasting valuable forum space!

Thanks!
Cris
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:00 PM   #419
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aw hell, you're not being argumentative or wasting space. I like the conversation. It's all good information/opinion/perspective. _CY_ included. As for rambling, we ain't here to be productive
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:11 PM   #420
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Originally Posted by _cy_ View Post

they pop up all the time for about $100

used Beeman R-7 or R-9 or R-1 can be found very reasonable.

if one does research, it's quite possible to get started with world class airguns for not much $$$...
Hey _cy_, your post implies there's a pretty healthy used market out there. where are people doing the buying and selling? Or, I should add- where are the reputable people doing the buying and selling?
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