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Old 11-12-2014, 06:15 PM   #1
John Ashman OP
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Fantasy mini-ADV twin.....

This is probably a bit silly, but running into more and more people than ever who really want a smaller, lighter twin cylinder ADV/DP bike rather than 800cc, 450lb and up models or large thumpers. So I'm thinking maybe if we toss out our ideas and make a thread, maybe someone, somewhere, at one of these companies, will see it and take some of the ideas and run with it.

Here is mine, which I've brought up a few times -

A 530cc twin version of the 800cc Tiger, in 3-4 mostly parts swappable variants, all under 400lbs wet, some hopefully as light as 350lbs wet.

1. Tiger 530 Cub XC, which would be a cross between the 800XC and a rally bike. Fully luggage capable, but mainly focused on off road with ~8-9" of travel (more?). 21" front wheel. Large tank. ~33-34" seat height max

2. Tiger Trail 530, a shorter version, more of a cross between a scrambler and a trail bike. Lighter, simpler, and shorter for ease of riding with a 32" or lower seat. Like a Ducati Scrambler, but higher tech and with a 19" front and spoke wheels. Smaller tank. Emphasis on light weight. No fairing, limited luggage options. Literally a trail bike.

3. Tiger Cub XR, a cross between a commuter and sport ADV tourer, with luggage capability, street rims, light, small fairing.

4. Speed Twin (real Triumph bike from the past), which would most obviously be a naked twin like the Speed Triple.

But, mainly, I really want a bike that has the ability to hit 75mph minimum without shaking itself and me to pieces, but is still light enough to hit the trails hard and also, I really want something that isn't so tall that it becomes unmanageable for the short of leg. I don't care WHO makes it. Anything close will get me interested.

Anyone want to take a shot at conceptualizing a bike? Because if not, I have a long list
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Old 11-12-2014, 07:04 PM   #2
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Tiger 530 Club XC

Put me down for that one.
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Old 11-12-2014, 07:33 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ashman View Post
This is probably a bit silly, but running into more and more people than ever who really want a smaller, lighter twin cylinder ADV/DP bike rather than 800cc, 450lb and up models or large thumpers. So I'm thinking maybe if we toss out our ideas and make a thread, maybe someone, somewhere, at one of these companies, will see it and take some of the ideas and run with it.

Here is mine, which I've brought up a few times -

A 530cc twin version of the 800cc Tiger, in 3-4 mostly parts swappable variants, all under 400lbs wet, some hopefully as light as 350lbs wet.

1. Tiger 530 Cub XC, which would be a cross between the 800XC and a rally bike. Fully luggage capable, but mainly focused on off road with ~8-9" of travel (more?). 21" front wheel. Large tank. ~33-34" seat height max ...


But, mainly, I really want a bike that has the ability to hit 75mph minimum without shaking itself and me to pieces, but is still light enough to hit the trails hard and also, I really want something that isn't so tall that it becomes unmanageable for the short of leg. I don't care WHO makes it. Anything close will get me interested.

Anyone want to take a shot at conceptualizing a bike? Because if not, I have a long list
Great list. I shortened it for you to make it even better. I 100 percent agree with your narrative also.

I don't want, but I could accept a slightly larger motor. Strongly prefer a twin, but the configuration isn't critical. I suspect a v twin would potentially produce more low end torque, but I think a parallel twin would be more compact. All that said, the motor could have triangle shaped pistons and I would still care only about how it works.
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Old 11-12-2014, 08:21 PM   #4
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Seems like Yamaha could do this with the 700 twin. At least it would have the power to go whatever speed you wanted, and hit the 400 pound limit.

I do quite a bit of offroad with road bikes. It's the nature of riding here in the South Sierra and Mojave. What's a big deal is deep sand and rock gardens.
The main two things that will help through the rough stuff is light weight and not being too tall. That means suspension has to be limited to 6 inches or so. That means you can't go as fast. But is 50 mph instead of 65 mph on a dirt road a big deal?

I've own a couple Dakars - 400 pounds, will cruise 75 OK. After fixing the mushy suspension these do OK offroad. But I'd rather have a lower faster more road oriented bike even if I have to be more careful offroad.
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Old 11-12-2014, 08:35 PM   #5
John Ashman OP
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I would certainly be up for an XT700Z Tenere, or an XT700 flat track or trail bike based on the 1970s XT500. I think it would be easy to do 8" of suspension and still keep the bike fairly low, the only trade off being that you'd have a relatively short peg to seat distance (which is okay for my legs).


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Old 11-12-2014, 09:04 PM   #6
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Having owned one of these, I'd love to see a new one, perhaps with chan drive, single shock and wire wheels, perhaps a 19" up front. iIt was quite light and maneuverable. I think its main problem is that it wasn't as capable as its flat track theme made it out to be. I took mine off road a few times, but it wasn't nearly as dirt as it was street. Needs a better frame, wheels, suspension for sure.


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Old 11-12-2014, 09:25 PM   #7
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Done:



Now about the 530cc idea for a Tiger motor... unfortunately removing one cylinder won't do it. Taking a motor from a triple to a twin is a huge difference. Might as well start from scratch. Computers design those things well.

But why do that when you already have a nice 500 twin available? Rally Raid is working on the spoked wheels, a suspension kit, bash plate. It will be a nice set up, for a total under 10K, including the price of a motorcycle, and with ABS!
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Old 11-12-2014, 11:24 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion BR View Post
Done:



Now about the 530cc idea for a Tiger motor... unfortunately removing one cylinder won't do it. Taking a motor from a triple to a twin is a huge difference. Might as well start from scratch. Computers design those things well.

But why do that when you already have a nice 500 twin available? Rally Raid is working on the spoked wheels, a suspension kit, bash plate. It will be a nice set up, for a total under 10K, including the price of a motorcycle, and with ABS!
Pow! Right in the kisser.

That's looking great. I've been closely watching this develop. I'm also waiting to see what Yamaha does with the 700. I'm counting the new AT out, as I believe the bike they showed us was nothing more than a concept.
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Old 11-13-2014, 12:27 AM   #9
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Take the engine from the Yamaha FZ-07, stick it in a WR450F, and put a XT660Z Tenere (read: small) fairing on it.

Basically, an Aprilia RXV for Earthlings. That's all I want.
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Old 11-13-2014, 12:38 AM   #10
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KLE500, spend some money of suspension, brakes, a bit more power, there's still plenty of good ones around

Read the specs, you'll be surprised
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Old 11-13-2014, 05:42 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ashman View Post
This is probably a bit silly, but running into more and more people than ever who really want a smaller, lighter twin cylinder ADV/DP bike rather than 800cc, 450lb and up models or large thumpers. So I'm thinking maybe if we toss out our ideas and make a thread, maybe someone, somewhere, at one of these companies, will see it and take some of the ideas and run with it.

Here is mine, which I've brought up a few times -

A 530cc twin version of the 800cc Tiger, in 3-4 mostly parts swappable variants, all under 400lbs wet, some hopefully as light as 350lbs wet.

1. Tiger 530 Cub XC, which would be a cross between the 800XC and a rally bike. Fully luggage capable, but mainly focused on off road with ~8-9" of travel (more?). 21" front wheel. Large tank. ~33-34" seat height max

2. Tiger Trail 530, a shorter version, more of a cross between a scrambler and a trail bike. Lighter, simpler, and shorter for ease of riding with a 32" or lower seat. Like a Ducati Scrambler, but higher tech and with a 19" front and spoke wheels. Smaller tank. Emphasis on light weight. No fairing, limited luggage options. Literally a trail bike.

3. Tiger Cub XR, a cross between a commuter and sport ADV tourer, with luggage capability, street rims, light, small fairing.

4. Speed Twin (real Triumph bike from the past), which would most obviously be a naked twin like the Speed Triple.

But, mainly, I really want a bike that has the ability to hit 75mph minimum without shaking itself and me to pieces, but is still light enough to hit the trails hard and also, I really want something that isn't so tall that it becomes unmanageable for the short of leg. I don't care WHO makes it. Anything close will get me interested.

Anyone want to take a shot at conceptualizing a bike? Because if not, I have a long list


Someone had to say it!

Shouldn't this post be in Road Warriors?
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Old 11-13-2014, 06:15 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by ViperJustin View Post
Pow! Right in the kisser.

That's looking great. I've been closely watching this develop. I'm also waiting to see what Yamaha does with the 700. I'm counting the new AT out, as I believe the bike they showed us was nothing more than a concept.
Bingo.
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Old 11-13-2014, 06:21 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by John Ashman View Post
Having owned one of these, I'd love to see a new one, perhaps with chan drive, single shock and wire wheels, perhaps a 19" up front. iIt was quite light and maneuverable. I think its main problem is that it wasn't as capable as its flat track theme made it out to be. I took mine off road a few times, but it wasn't nearly as dirt as it was street. Needs a better frame, wheels, suspension for sure.

They did make one.

http://www.xrv.org.uk/forums/attachm...p-p7300003.jpg
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Old 11-13-2014, 06:55 AM   #14
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The little vee Ascot had about as much power as the Transalp and weighed less. I think I'd take the Ascot with better wheels, chain, and a little wind screen. Of course, a Dakar is what you get.

BTW, for a while I obsessed about the FT500 - the Ascot Thumper. I had owned two different SR500's and the SRX600, i wanted some variety, and thought it would be nice to not have to kick and kick and kick. I drove up to Fresno to check out a prime example, waste of a day, the bikes are incredibly slow.
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Old 11-13-2014, 08:26 AM   #15
John Ashman OP
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My buddy wanted to copy me and got an FT500 and I hated it by comparison.

I think the VT Ascot had such promise. Though I love shaft, it was an odd choice. I don't think anyone at the time was asking for a flat tracker for the street, really. But a wire wheeled, chain drive, 19" fronted, flat tracker for DP use? I think that would have flown.

As for the TranAlp, Honda made bucks on it, but only brought it to the US for a couple of years, before the ADV market was actually a thing.

"The Transalp is huge. European cities are clogged with them, and the likely reason Honda left the Transalp unchanged for seven years was that it was selling so fast."

A CB500 TransAlp would be the tits.
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