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Old 06-18-2014, 05:05 PM   #2551
PirateDunk
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Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Western Australia
Oddometer: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by professorkx View Post
Received this clutch pack from Barnett yesterday:

http://www.barnettclutches.com/1977/...iumph-675.html

Last night, I removed the stock clutch (which looked like it had been in a fire) and matched fiber and steel plates to the Barnett unit. Everything slipped in place as it should, and the Barnett kit included the small first fiber, so I was feeling pretty confident.

I measured old and new pack, and as expected, the stock pack was badly worn. Soaked fibers in oil and installed the clutch. I also measured the new springs, and they appeared to be straight replacements, but a little stiffer than stock.

Once installed, I adjusted cable at the engine to full extension, with the final adjustment for play at the lever. Started bike and tested. I was concerned about the heavier spring, but impact on clutch pull is negligible. Ran the bike through a heat cycle to check for leaks, and all is good. Tomorrow will be the road test, but quite frankly, I only expect to have to do a little fine tuning of the adjustment and that's about it.

A few observations:

1. The Barnett fibers have much larger pads, with reasonable spacing between the pads. The stock pads on the fibers are very small in comparison, with small spacing. I'm not sure if this will make a difference, just an observation.

2. The new steel plates do not have the dimples that are on the stock plates. There has been some discussion on the dimples, and if they result in more wear...greater cooling...or? I kept the stock clutch, but I'm not expecting to have to swap in the stock steel plates.

Now the fun starts, as it's time to put the Barnett to the test on real trails this weekend on a 3 day ride. Will post again if I learn anything new, but I really doubt I will have any more information until I get a few thousand miles on the clutch.

For now, the Barnett clutch is an option to stock and Surflex, which is out of stock until the first part of July. We have two more Tigers with fried clutches, so will be ordering/installing Barnett units for these as well.

Now, before everyone gets all concerned that the Tiger has a weak clutch, that's the wrong conclusion. We worked the clutch pretty hard on our last ride, and I think we need to learn to trust the fuel injection more instead of leaning on slipping the clutch as was the case with the dirt bikes. These bikes don't flame out easily, but this is a learning curve for dirt bike guys like us. The stock clutch may not be up to serious off road use, but if there is an aftermarket solution, problem is easily solvable.
Keen to head what you think about the shifting smoothness if you think it stays the same or not.

I think I might give the heavier springs a go too. It's good wrist exercise. The tiger has a very light clutch feel, it will take a lot to make it as heavy as my hydraulic KTM640's was.
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Old 06-19-2014, 08:31 AM   #2552
professorkx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateDunk View Post
Keen to head what you think about the shifting smoothness if you think it stays the same or not.

I think I might give the heavier springs a go too. It's good wrist exercise. The tiger has a very light clutch feel, it will take a lot to make it as heavy as my hydraulic KTM640's was.
First ride today with the Barnett clutch, and the clutch does in fact have a heavier feel because of the new springs, but as you noted, it felt too light stock. The "feel" of clutch engagement is much more positive, more like my dirt bikes. As for being too heavy, not near as heavy as either of my Harleys (one belt drive dry clutch and one stock wet clutch) or all of my dirt bikes 450cc and greater, so I doubt there will be any adjustment period.

As for shifting, hitting neutral shifting from first to second seems to be gone. Not sure why a clutch pack would have this impact, but I routinely hit neutral with the stock clutch, and have yet to hit neutral with the Barnett unit. However, this means neutral was a little hard to find when I started the ride this morning, but took about 10 minutes to adjust, so no longer a problem, as it just takes a lighter touch to hit neutral...just like every other bike I have owned. Conclusion, I like this aspect of the change, but don't understand why a clutch would have any impact on this.

All other shifts up/down seem to be the same. Tonight I will adjust the clutch so I have a little more free-play at the lever, but since both adjustments are full out, this should just take 1 or 2 rotations at the lever.
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Old 06-19-2014, 03:39 PM   #2553
boinoodle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by professorkx View Post
First ride today with the Barnett clutch, and the clutch does in fact have a heavier feel because of the new springs, but as you noted, it felt too light stock. The "feel" of clutch engagement is much more positive, more like my dirt bikes. As for being too heavy, not near as heavy as either of my Harleys (one belt drive dry clutch and one stock wet clutch) or all of my dirt bikes 450cc and greater, so I doubt there will be any adjustment period.

As for shifting, hitting neutral shifting from first to second seems to be gone. Not sure why a clutch pack would have this impact, but I routinely hit neutral with the stock clutch, and have yet to hit neutral with the Barnett unit. However, this means neutral was a little hard to find when I started the ride this morning, but took about 10 minutes to adjust, so no longer a problem, as it just takes a lighter touch to hit neutral...just like every other bike I have owned. Conclusion, I like this aspect of the change, but don't understand why a clutch would have any impact on this.

All other shifts up/down seem to be the same. Tonight I will adjust the clutch so I have a little more free-play at the lever, but since both adjustments are full out, this should just take 1 or 2 rotations at the lever.
Is this the set you ordered?
Triumph Complete Clutch Kit- Kevlar

Part# 303-75-10675
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Old 06-19-2014, 03:44 PM   #2554
professorkx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boinoodle View Post
Is this the set you ordered?
Triumph Complete Clutch Kit- Kevlar

Part# 303-75-10675
Yup.
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Old 06-20-2014, 05:13 AM   #2555
ducatirdr
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Location: Sutton MA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducatirdr View Post
I guess I should have put a 15T counter shaft sprocket on the front sooner. A recent ADV ride I was on went sour in a hero section after a slow climb up a wet rocky waterfall like trail. I thought my rear tire was slipping on the wet rocks as I was giving it gas and heard the engine rise with more throttle but no forward OOMF. Thinking it was loose rocks and slipping tire I continued for way too long up that hill before slowing and then noticing I had no clutch.

There I was in the middle of the woods and a HUMVEE comes down the trail. It was the town cops out checking on the citizens to see if they were having fun. I asked if they had a flatbed version and sure enough they did. A call back to the station and then the fire crew came out with the pickup Hummer. Good ol government surplus came in handy that day. I heard I was one of many that needed rescuing.

Anyway back to the clutch failure. I am curious to those that ride their Tiger XC's in the dirt how long they are getting out of their clutches? I realize that I probably should have noticed I was slipping and stopped abusing the thing and adjust free play. The 4900 miles on a clutch seems really quick. The quote from the shop is close to $800 for the replacement.

This common on all big bikes in the woods? Or is it just the abuse that caught up to me.
Still waiting for my bike to get back from the dealer. This has been 3 weeks. It appears that Triumph is replacing the clutch under warranty. I haven't picked it up yet so I don't know if that is parts and labor or just parts. I did pick up a Renthal 15 tooth counter shaft sprocket.

Glad I have other toys to play with. This would be much uglier if it were my only bike.

Thanks for the info on the Barnett solution. I hope I don't need it in another 4500 miles. But if I do.... I'll be using that rather a stock setup.

It a twist of fate my KTM 350 EXC-F started slipping its clutch during the New England Classic trail ride last weekend. It was due as the thing has many hours of enduro and turkey runs on it in too tall a gearing before I finally brought it down to standard exc gearing. I'm going to try a Rekluse Core 3.0 on that! Imagine a Rekluse on the Tiger....
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Old 06-22-2014, 06:59 AM   #2556
lmychajluk
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Yesterday, a fellow inmate and I, neither of us with much dirt experience, decided to explore some of the local 'dirt' roads near his house in central NJ. Well, it seems like 'dirt' road in that area really means 'sand'. Anyway, we had some fun checking out these roads, though not so much chugging through 3-8"+ of sand in spots. I put up a video of one section of our adventure if you want to see what we were dealing with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=f9xYUVHtzgU

We only did these roads for a couple of miles, but once we got back on the road and was able to open up the throttle a bit, I immediately felt the clutch slipping. It felt as if I had no power over 5000rpm or so. Having read some of the posts here about the Tiger clutch offroad, I thought I was being really careful about using the clutch, but I guess not. I'm going to try and adjusting the clutch a bit (the engagement is really close to full out on the handle, and may have been knocked out of whack by my spill a the end of the video), but I think I'll probably have to replace it, which I hope I can get done by Friday when I'm scheduled to attend the AltRider Conserve the Ride Event in PA. Going to try and get my hands on the Barnett kit mentioned above.

Edit - Here's another video that shows some of the deeper sandy parts a bit better - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9OYO9nhG1o
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lmychajluk screwed with this post 06-22-2014 at 07:30 AM
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Old 06-22-2014, 07:59 AM   #2557
ducatirdr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducatirdr View Post
Still waiting for my bike to get back from the dealer. This has been 3 weeks. It appears that Triumph is replacing the clutch under warranty. I haven't picked it up yet so I don't know if that is parts and labor or just parts. I did pick up a Renthal 15 tooth counter shaft sprocket.
Got the bike back yesterday. It has the 15 tooth and I don't notice much of a difference on the street. Maybe a bit more whine from the engine but its not unpleasant. Clutch feel is worse than it was new even with stock parts. Maybe it needs to break in or I'm used to my dirtbikes I've been hammering lately. Either way it s back and I wonder for how long... I may take a ride by the KTM dealer to look at the new R.
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04 Buell XB12R - Feels fast but isn't = Good street sport bike
12 KTM 350EXC-F - Enduro machine with plate so I can ride to the trails near my house
13 Triumph Tiger 800XC - Because I really don't have a bike that I can ride anywhere on.
2000 Ducati 996S - No reason
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Old 06-22-2014, 11:23 AM   #2558
lmychajluk
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A couple of questions about the Barnett kit and the install, in case I have to do it myself. (Sorry, outside of basic oil changes and bolt-on type stuff, I don't do much of my own work, so please bear with me...)

I'm looking at the Tiger Service Manual. Disconnect the clutch cable and remove the clutch cover seems pretty straightforward. The SM doesn't mention it, but I'm assuming that the oil needs to be drained first? (I only ask because to me it would make sense to, but, though the SM mentions removing the seat to disconnect the battery, there's no mention of this.) Also, the Service Manual says to record the 'orientation' of the components - do I need note the angular position of the pack, or is it just referring to the stacking order?

The stock stack is 7 friction plates, 2 x 1.6mm steel plates, 2 x 2mm steel plates, plus an outer and an inner plate. The Barnett kit is 9 Friction plates and 8 steel plates. Is there an inner and outer plate included with the Barnett kit? Is it just a matter of stacking up the alternating friction & steel plates until the 42.2mm stack height (per the service manual) is reached?

Can you re-use the anti-judder washer and spring, or do I need to get my hands on a new set? I'm also guessing these are not included when measuring the clutch stack?

I guess I would need to get a clutch cover gasket from a Triumph dealer. Is this normally a 'stock' part, or should I expect to wait for it?

Thanks for any insight and tips!
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Old 06-24-2014, 02:01 PM   #2559
professorkx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmychajluk View Post
A couple of questions about the Barnett kit and the install, in case I have to do it myself. (Sorry, outside of basic oil changes and bolt-on type stuff, I don't do much of my own work, so please bear with me...)

I'm looking at the Tiger Service Manual. Disconnect the clutch cable and remove the clutch cover seems pretty straightforward. The SM doesn't mention it, but I'm assuming that the oil needs to be drained first? (I only ask because to me it would make sense to, but, though the SM mentions removing the seat to disconnect the battery, there's no mention of this.) Also, the Service Manual says to record the 'orientation' of the components - do I need note the angular position of the pack, or is it just referring to the stacking order?

The stock stack is 7 friction plates, 2 x 1.6mm steel plates, 2 x 2mm steel plates, plus an outer and an inner plate. The Barnett kit is 9 Friction plates and 8 steel plates. Is there an inner and outer plate included with the Barnett kit? Is it just a matter of stacking up the alternating friction & steel plates until the 42.2mm stack height (per the service manual) is reached?

Can you re-use the anti-judder washer and spring, or do I need to get my hands on a new set? I'm also guessing these are not included when measuring the clutch stack?

I guess I would need to get a clutch cover gasket from a Triumph dealer. Is this normally a 'stock' part, or should I expect to wait for it?

Thanks for any insight and tips!
Just swapped in the Barnett clutch and have almost 1000 miles on the new pack.

1. All of the friction plates are the same except the first one to go in place, as this one is smaller to allow for the Anti-judder spring and washer, so make sure you identify this smaller plate and make sure it's in the right spot. The SM notes the outer plate was different, but I could not see a difference in the new pack except for the first fiber plate.

2. I don't see any reason to replace the Anti-judder spring or washer. I inspected, and these look to be hard to damage without some type of catastrophic event.

3. The different thickness steel plates appear to be for height adjustment when you check the pack thickness. However, there is quite a lot of adjustment on the clutch cable, so I am unsure why so much attention is paid to getting the exact right height. Heck, as the fibers wear, the thickness changes, which is why we adjust the cable over time. The only advantage I could think of would be to get maximum life out of your fibers by setting the pack at the outside limit up front. However, the Barnett kit does not come with extra steel plates, so you would need to either use stock steel plates or purchase extra plates in different thicknesses for this process. Too much work for me, so I just installed and made sure that the clutch would release with the cable extended.

4. You don't need to drain the oil as with a dirt bike, as the oil is well below the clutch pack.

5. After initial adjustment, I went for a ride, and had to adjust the clutch. I assume this is due to excess oil between the plates. Just remember, that your initial adjustment will not be your last, as you need to take a ride and continue to fine tune. I think I adjusted after 10 miles and again after about 50 miles, but have not touched the adjustment after the second time. If you don't fine tune adjustment, you risk running your clutch partially engaged, which means you will burn the clutch quickly.

6. Yes, you need a new gasket. I cleaned the surface and didn't use any adhesive and have not had any leaks.

7. The Tiger clutch is a little more difficult to adjust by free-play feel, as the engagement arm is spring loaded (unlike a dirt bike). So, I started the motor, adjusted the cable at the engine to allow for what felt like the right amount of free-play at the lever then moved the arm with my hand to ensure there is a little play before the pressure plate is touched. (The adjustment as noted in the SM doesn't provide much help) It's pretty obvious once you check the arm the first time, as you can feel the pressure plate touch with your hand. After this adjustment, I pulled in the clutch, clicked into gear and slowly let out the clutch lever to feel engagement location. The lever engages a little over half way out (on selector 4 at the lever), which is about right. Each time I adjusted the clutch as I fine tuned, I checked the lever at the engine to make sure I had a little movement before the pressure plate was touched.

8. I know that I will wear the clutch over time, so I set the clutch adjustment at the lever so I have plenty of room to turn the adjustment in. (adjustment outward is highly unlikely, so I don't leave much outward adjustment)

Post up if you need additional help. Clutch change should take about 30 minutes the first time as you pay attention to how things are coming apart.
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Old 06-24-2014, 05:54 PM   #2560
lmychajluk
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Thanks a bunch, professorkx! I've been watching videos (not specific to the Tiger 800, though) and reviewing the SM, and with your info, feel pretty confident about tackling the job myself (well, my brother, who was an auto body mechanic, might help). I called the closest Triumph dealer today, and though at first they thought they would have to order the gasket and it would take a week, they ended up having one in inventory and I was able to grab it today. The Barnett kit will be in tomorrow, and I'm planning on doing this on Thursday.

A few things that I've seen / heard that I'm still not clear on. Some of it may be clearer once I see the parts and Barnett's instructions.

1) Barnett FAQ says soak the plates for 10-15 minutes. One video said 48 hours. What say you? I'm assuming I just need to soak the friction plates...

2) I was told that to make note of the position of the pressure plate and note which holes each of the bolts comes out of and to put each back in the same hole (because it may be balanced?). Is this important?

3) Is there a specific 'clock' position for the plates? (I thought I saw this mentioned in a video for changing a GSXR clutch.) As in, is there any type of mark/notch/etc.. on the plates that needs to line up a certain way between the drums and/or with each other, or as long as all the notches on the plates fit between the drums, and the plates go in in the right order, you're good?

Thanks again!
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Old 06-24-2014, 05:59 PM   #2561
CA Stu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by professorkx View Post
As for shifting, hitting neutral shifting from first to second seems to be gone. Not sure why a clutch pack would have this impact, but I routinely hit neutral with the stock clutch, and have yet to hit neutral with the Barnett unit. However, this means neutral was a little hard to find when I started the ride this morning, but took about 10 minutes to adjust, so no longer a problem, as it just takes a lighter touch to hit neutral...just like every other bike I have owned. Conclusion, I like this aspect of the change, but don't understand why a clutch would have any impact on this.
Maybe a little drag with the clutch pulled in? That's all I can think of...

Edit: You didn't happen to take pics of the old plates and new plates did you?

Also, after owning my Tiger for a week or so, I think it may be geared for 200mph.
Maybe losing a tooth on the front would do wonders for low speed tractor action?
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Old 06-24-2014, 06:11 PM   #2562
bross
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Location: Osoyoos, BC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmychajluk View Post
Thanks a bunch, professorkx! I've been watching videos (not specific to the Tiger 800, though) and reviewing the SM, and with your info, feel pretty confident about tackling the job myself (well, my brother, who was an auto body mechanic, might help). I called the closest Triumph dealer today, and though at first they thought they would have to order the gasket and it would take a week, they ended up having one in inventory and I was able to grab it today. The Barnett kit will be in tomorrow, and I'm planning on doing this on Thursday.

A few things that I've seen / heard that I'm still not clear on. Some of it may be clearer once I see the parts and Barnett's instructions.

1) Barnett FAQ says soak the plates for 10-15 minutes. One video said 48 hours. What say you? I'm assuming I just need to soak the friction plates...

2) I was told that to make note of the position of the pressure plate and note which holes each of the bolts comes out of and to put each back in the same hole (because it may be balanced?). Is this important?

3) Is there a specific 'clock' position for the plates? (I thought I saw this mentioned in a video for changing a GSXR clutch.) As in, is there any type of mark/notch/etc.. on the plates that needs to line up a certain way between the drums and/or with each other, or as long as all the notches on the plates fit between the drums, and the plates go in in the right order, you're good?

Thanks again!
Easy way to keep track of bolts is to use a piece of cardboard, just use a sharpie to rough sketch the outline of your cover and or pressure plate and then poke a hole with a screw driver and insert the bolts as you remove them. Some cover bolts may be longer as well, not sure on the Tiger but on my DR you had to keep track of where the longer bolts went.



PS Not my picture, just stole it off the internet, I'm a way better artist.
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Old 06-24-2014, 06:52 PM   #2563
lmychajluk
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Wiat, I need to keep track of the bolts on the cover plate, too?!?

I thought it was just the pressure plate?
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Old 06-24-2014, 07:19 PM   #2564
browneye
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Stu View Post
Maybe a little drag with the clutch pulled in? That's all I can think of...

Edit: You didn't happen to take pics of the old plates and new plates did you?

Also, after owning my Tiger for a week or so, I think it may be geared for 200mph.
Maybe losing a tooth on the front would do wonders for low speed tractor action?
I tend to run mine right at about 6K on the tack, I think that's right at about 80mph.

Dropping one will make first a lot lower for dirt. I've never missed it, I like the hiway speed. Don't forget about your TE610.
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Old 06-24-2014, 07:21 PM   #2565
greg1
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How are these Tigers for reliability? I have a 2014 DRZ400S and I love it, but for extended long range trips I'd love one of these Tigers. I love the sound of their engines too. Oh my god that sound is amazing...

I just don't know anything about the brand. Are Triumphs known for long term reliability?
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