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Old 02-20-2012, 01:26 PM   #256
Cesar Serpa
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C5!, do you already had feedback from Electrosport?
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:59 PM   #257
C5! OP
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Originally Posted by Cesar Serpa View Post
C5!, do you already had feedback from Electrosport?
good question, I'll email them. They should have received it by now. will let you know.

btw, you are in Portugal? I am going to Spain (andalucia) in March/april. bought an x-challenge to move around
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:09 AM   #258
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Ok they did receive the stator, and are still making tests to see what went wrong.
they seem pretty professionals and issued me a refund right away.

Here is the copy of the email exchange:

I got your part back yesterday and I have given you a refund on it now. The stator was indeed bad when i received it.

Something you should be cautious of though is that high voltage you measured in the electrical system when it failed. The R/R should never allow over 14.7v into the system, and I know you mentioned you saw 18 volts. There could be a problem with your R/R that cause the stator to fail, I'm not sure of that, but it is possible. Be careful with your R/R and make sure it is not over charging your battery with your new stator, that would be a very expensive problem if left unchecked.

I have asked if the problem could be caused because the OEM is a delta wiring and theirs is a Y:

Yes I'm looking into the cause now. The delta vs Y winding would not be a direct cause of the failure. They can be used interchangeably without problem so long as the winding are done appropriately. There are some other differences too, but this item went bad because the copper we used was actually too nice. Long story short, we designed this part years and years ago and had it manufactured by another company to our spec based on testing and refinement of their samples. Recently we started manufacturing these ourselves, along with our entire stator line. When we do the manufacturing we use the highest grade copper wire available, much better then other stators uses. Problem is it turns out that the copper is so good there is a serious drop in resistance which leads to very high electrical output which damaged the stator. I will need to make a revision to the winding on the part and fix the problem, ill have a replacement part number for the BMW in a few weeks.

You could put it on the board, but I'm not sure if this is the cause of the problem. Your BMW stator is one of only a couple I have gotten back, but based on your description of the failure it could be the problem. I really need to further test the part before I can be sure of the cause, it may have just been a short in the stator, at the connector, flaw in the wiring harness, flywheel problem, lots of things. But I'm positive it didnt have to do with Y vs delta set up, as long as the stator is wound accordingly either configuration could be used for this application.
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Old 02-27-2012, 02:56 PM   #259
Cesar Serpa
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I already have mine rewinded and installed. The problem is that the who rewind it told me that he don't make it again because he don't like that kind of work.

Now if i need a new one i need to buy it. I wrap the exhaust to.



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Old 04-06-2012, 07:44 AM   #260
Indy Unlimited
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I ordered one of these. It should fit and work as a back up while I send mine out for rewind soon.

http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/ca...-F-800S-Stator

I will post later with fit results.
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:25 AM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy Unlimited View Post
I ordered one of these. It should fit and work as a back up while I send mine out for rewind soon.

http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/ca...-F-800S-Stator

I will post later with fit results.
it looks good! -- that one for ST is different from ours?

Mine having a second alternator + regulator... I'm expecting another alt. failure :(
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:46 AM   #262
Cesar Serpa
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I don´t have access to:
http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/ca...-F-800S-Stator
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:09 AM   #263
JoelWisman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy Unlimited View Post
I ordered one of these. It should fit and work as a back up while I send mine out for rewind soon.

http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/ca...-F-800S-Stator

I will post later with fit results.
I haven't finished testing a solution for the F8 early stator toast issue, but, have identified the problem.

Virtually zero oil splash and magnetic saturation that is a little too high to keep the stator cool enough for longevity with anything short of exotic magnet wire insulation.

I posted some info in this post, http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=34

And there is a little more buried in that same battery thread, but this is a better place to post about it as that is a genuine battery thread started by none other then myself lol.

The skinny is that BMWs oem stator is already using absolute top of the line 200c insulation for the stator and it is still failing early because the stator is simply running too hot.

Most quality rewinders use magnet wire with 180c insulation which is still considered very good insulation, but in the F8 that is way too low which causes very early failure.

Barring someone using a glass sleeve, an expensive and difficult proposition I can't think of what to do besides inserting external resistance which will slightly de-rate the alternator output.

I have a test setup running on a few bikes, but while the fix is vetted, I would keep the aftermarket leeds on that stator full length as that will increase the external resistance at least slightly.

Also a voltage regulator with a higher charging voltage in the 14.3 - 14.5 volt region will help, as would a series voltage regulator, a LOT, as long as the rest of the bike can tolerate noisy regulation.

Good luck.
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:27 AM   #264
Indy Unlimited
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I might design an external cooling fin and drill the case and conduct the heat outside the.bike. Thanks for your research Joel !
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Old 04-06-2012, 12:34 PM   #265
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Next mod .... liquid nitrogen stator injection system......



Erling
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Old 04-06-2012, 01:03 PM   #266
JRWooden
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Originally Posted by Indy Unlimited View Post
I might design an external cooling fin and drill the case and conduct the heat outside the.bike. Thanks for your research Joel !
Indy ... I thought about that also ...
Side cover is pretty thin metal, but I'll bet there'd be a way...
I remember back in the really old days they sold finned side covers for the Honda 750s


IIRC there did not seem to be a lot of contact area between the stock stator and the side cover either which isn't helping...

Also, a modification that would dribble a small stream oil into the stator area might help... but I think we came up blank on where to source the oil from without risking something important....
Pity ....

I wonder if there is some heat pipe arrangement that we could stick in the open center of the stator and conduct heat away without making too big of a hole in the side cover?

At the very least we should all likely get the SH541-SC R/R .... I wonder if we could do a group buy on that puppy?
I'm not sure where we could source it from, but I would think that with a decent sized group we could get the cost so something less than $100... ???

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Old 04-06-2012, 06:06 PM   #267
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Joel thanks for posting a summary here. I will be keeping an eye on mine.

Why does higher regulator voltage help out? Our company control guys think 13.8 is a high voltage for a lead acid battery for thier backup DC systems.

Regards,
David
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:29 PM   #268
JoelWisman
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De-rating is simple, but of course you will loose some power to run accessories.

The stator runs much hotter then any surface of the case cover, so a thermally conductive potting compound between the stator and cover would help quite a bit I would think, as would a radiator (heat sink) if you could get good transfer to it.

A nozzle to flow oil over the stator would work awesome, and there are oil ways that could be tapped in the area. The question is: Can components downstream survive the loss of oil pressure? I sure wouldn't want to be the one to find out!

Note: IR guns are useless for measuring temperatures, especially on surfaces with varied emissivity such as these.

Once I am done using it on my battery test project, Indy or anyone else is welcome to barrow my 4 channel thermocouple.

It is handy because you can measure 4 places at once, min/max/average. It is what I used to measure stator temperatures but could be used to measure stator, cover, heat sink, or whatever.

Average temperature needs to be below 160c for the stator to last the life of the engine. It currently runs 180-200c

As to the voltage regulator, yes one with a higher voltage clamping level will help, though how much is beyond my skill set to determine without simply trying it.

I have the new oe SC regulator, but was leaning towards selling it as I need the money lol.

FET is better then SCR. a sensing wire is very nice. external leeds good. look up any modern bike with a 400 watt or larger charging system. BMW is probably the only manufacture that got this part wrong in modern times
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:41 PM   #269
JoelWisman
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This is a well known extremely good regulator with a VERY nice conversion kit from a Missouri boy :)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHINDENGEN-M...#ht_1821wt_779
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:56 AM   #270
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So am I reading this correctly that stators are failing upwards of 50,000 miles?

Also does running an after market cooler regulator/rectifier help cool the stator? If so that seems like a fairly easy solution.

And what farkels and/or what battety are people running on the bikes that fail? Surely they aren't running the stock batter with that kind of mileage.
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