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Old 07-12-2011, 11:45 AM   #16
LukasM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr View Post
Sorry you are incorrect. Look at the schematic on the eastern beaver site. Although I can not share it, I have the complete schematic. This is the series style, when the current is not demanded it disconnects the stator and lets the voltage on the stator rise. When regulator is overloaded and overheated it shuts off, and when cool starts again. In the abuse part of the testing, I ran 80 amps thru it and it shut down and restarted over 10 times without damage. This is one tough regulator. Built as a Hybrid and quality construction.

We did a full evaluation for a un-named manufacturer to use this OE. Never a warranty return unless hooked up backwards. Sadly the economy killed that mfg. But no warranty on over 1000 bikes before their end. We do not sell retail or mail order.

No I do not have samples either.

Rod
I believe you that the Shindengen FH series are rock solid and don't fail, but that is not our issue. Out of the hundreds of posts/sites I have read on this topic, you are the first person to claim that it's not a shunt but a series style regulator.

Have a look at these o-scope measurements done by an electrical engineer:

Stator Voltage/Current comparison between FH012AA (FET based Shunt Controller) and Compu-fire SERIES based controller:
http://www.posplayr.100megsfree3.com...vs_FH012AA.pdf

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Old 07-12-2011, 12:53 PM   #17
ragtoplvr
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Damn the Shindengen website sucks.

I stand corrected, it is a shunting style of regulator.

Sorry, I don't have scope here, but this explains a lot, and I have another application I will try to sell into now that I know. Someone with the ability to wind these stators can use good high temp wire, maybe they will live better, There is stuff rated for 240C out there, ford uses it on their alternators, I have seen the lamination steel turned straw color and the windings still good

You can increase the turns, but this lowers the output current.

You could also sand down the poles carefully this would decrease the output some too.

The overheating is a BMW design issue, something that in their mind can not happen.

Rod
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Old 07-12-2011, 01:24 PM   #18
DELTATANGO
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So it is harder on the alternator when there is a greater load on it?
Heat is the problem?
A charged battery and ample cooling (air) is the solution?
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Old 07-12-2011, 01:32 PM   #19
LukasM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr View Post
Damn the Shindengen website sucks.

I stand corrected, it is a shunting style of regulator.

Sorry, I don't have scope here, but this explains a lot, and I have another application I will try to sell into now that I know. Someone with the ability to wind these stators can use good high temp wire, maybe they will live better, There is stuff rated for 240C out there, ford uses it on their alternators, I have seen the lamination steel turned straw color and the windings still good

You can increase the turns, but this lowers the output current.

You could also sand down the poles carefully this would decrease the output some too.

The overheating is a BMW design issue, something that in their mind can not happen.

Rod
Yeah, it's not entirely clear on the Shindengen website. I have read that they also produce a series R/R, but I don't think it's used in any OEM application.

By the way, the full spec sheet of the FH0012 is available freely on the net.





Quote:
Originally Posted by DELTATANGO View Post
So it is harder on the alternator when there is a greater load on it?
Heat is the problem?
A charged battery and ample cooling (air) is the solution?
No, that's not the solution. With the current setup (permanent magnet?) the alternator is at full load any time, no matter what kind of draw you put on the system.

The only thing I know of is the series regulator I mentioned above. This thread has a good description of what it does:

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/i...ies-regulator/
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Old 07-12-2011, 01:39 PM   #20
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I've seen the pictures of ChiTown's stator, and it sure looks like heat damage...
but do we have any pictures of a working stator that has 30K+ miles on it just for the sake of comparison?


It looks like Compu-Fire makes a 3-phase regulator that is sold as part of an upgrade kit, is something like that available separately?


LukasM and Ragtoplvr: You ( Obviously ) don't have to answer, but are either of you guys "in the business"


In addition to improving reliability it would seem that a series style regulator could release a wee bit of extra horsepower as well, since it would not be running wide-open all the time?
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Old 07-12-2011, 01:48 PM   #21
LukasM
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I am not in the business and I am far from an expert, just did a lot of research on the topic on a rainy day as I know that it's a problem on the F-series bikes.

The R/R you would want to buy is the Compufire 55402, it's three phase and made to handle 40 amps. About $180 delivered in the States if you look around online. I have been thinking about trying one from all the positive feedback I have read (it also lower oil temps!) but it's a bit of a pain from here as nobody in Europe sells them. If anybody wants to order one and is willing to forward one to me (of course I cover shipping) please let me know!


Wiring would be very simple, three phases from the stator, then power and ground.

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Old 07-12-2011, 01:56 PM   #22
LukasM
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Here is a measurement done on a Aprilia RSV Mille, which are even more notorious for burning up stators than our GS'. The guy who did it is a private individual from Europe with no vested interest, so I have no reason to believe that it was manipulated. 20 C outside temp:

Stock shunt R/R:




Compufire series R/R (no heat to shunt):


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Old 07-12-2011, 01:56 PM   #23
JRWooden
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Lukas:

I sent you a PM ... and ...
I have to wonder ... how much money could BMW have saved by using the shunt design instead of the series design

Now that I understand what's going on ... I feel cheated ....
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Old 07-12-2011, 03:06 PM   #24
TAMPAJIM
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A fellow rider in our Wednesday lunch group just lost hers at 40,000 miles. They wanted $1.600 to replace it but she had just purchased the extended warranty so was covered. She said warranty was billed for $1,300. Also the dealer told her his went out at 40,000 miles and that it was a known problem. For sure I'm getting the extended warranty if I keep this bike.
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Old 07-12-2011, 04:30 PM   #25
JRWooden
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Originally Posted by TAMPAJIM View Post
A fellow rider in our Wednesday lunch group just lost hers at 40,000 miles. They wanted $1.600 to replace it but she had just purchased the extended warranty so was covered. She said warranty was billed for $1,300. Also the dealer told her his went out at 40,000 miles and that it was a known problem. For sure I'm getting the extended warranty if I keep this bike.
Jim:
One reason it is so expensive is that you can not buy "just" the stator from BMW, you must by the assembly which includes the flywheel and costs ~$800 ...

Stators can be rewound/rebuild with relative ease by a good shop. I would expect to pay less than $200 to have a shop do this... here are a couple of places that are in the business:

http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com

https://www.rmstator.com/en/motorcyc...tor_repair.htm

Local shops are probably available ...

This does not diminish my disappointment for what seems to be a design flaw....

PS: If you recall, from whom did she buy her extended warranty and about what did it cost?

JRWooden screwed with this post 07-12-2011 at 04:42 PM
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Old 07-12-2011, 04:58 PM   #26
C5! OP
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stator 34,323 km - 2 1/2 yrs

here is my stator, 34,323 km (21.327 miles)

Left it to be rewired this afternoon. Will be ready Thursday morning about USD100. I asked for a second resin dip !
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Old 07-12-2011, 05:17 PM   #27
ebrabaek
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Lucas is correct.... The stator always put out 100%...... RR shunt`s what ever juice not needed to ground......

Erling
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Old 07-12-2011, 06:52 PM   #28
JRWooden
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Originally Posted by C5! View Post
here is my stator, 34,323 km (21.327 miles)

Left it to be rewired this afternoon. Will be ready Thursday morning about USD100. I asked for a second resin dip !
21,000 miles is all????

On the other hand, $100 for the rewind is not bad!

Did they recommend a 2nd resin dip?
I'm wondering how well the resin insulates? Might a 2nd coat hold more heat in which would be bad?
Just thinking out loud... probably the coats are thin enough that it's not going to matter.....
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:42 PM   #29
C5! OP
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Originally Posted by JRWooden View Post
21,000 miles is all????

On the other hand, $100 for the rewind is not bad!

Did they recommend a 2nd resin dip?
I'm wondering how well the resin insulates? Might a 2nd coat hold more heat in which would be bad?
Just thinking out loud... probably the coats are thin enough that it's not going to matter.....
I've asked for it, got that idea from joel's post in this thread http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=685465.

"It is laughable how easy it is to make a stator. 1: put a new nomex or fiberglass sleeve on each pole piece. 2: get varnished or glassed wire of appropriate size (14 gauge perhaps? easy to tell once your looking at it), wind it around each pole piece with the same number of turns as original and follow the pattern of the original. 3: Protect the terminations with glass tape.
4: dip the completed assembly in varnish or glass (glass is better). Bake it at the temperature the varnish or glass manufacture recommends. DONE"

If you want serious reliability meg / hot test, dip it again and bake it again if your really hard core. DONE

and yes it is pretty depressing to see this happening at 21000 miles!! not being recognized by bmw and even worst when it happens in the middle of nowhere!
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:37 PM   #30
Camel ADV
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I emailed Ricky Stator yesterday to see if they'd be interested in rebuilding and selling F series stators, hopefully with more power. I haven't heard anything back yet.
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