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Old 08-05-2011, 03:42 PM   #61
twodollardoug
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i got my plug made today.....i used dry wall mud for body filler, and to coats of epoxy to fill in all my sanding scratches. a clean room to do this in would be nice. im having trouble gauging how much resin to mix up...... a little goes a long way.
when i closed the garage door the plug was smooth as glass.

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Old 08-06-2011, 08:22 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by twodollardoug View Post
i got my plug made today.....i used dry wall mud for body filler, and to coats of epoxy to fill in all my sanding scratches. a clean room to do this in would be nice. im having trouble gauging how much resin to mix up...... a little goes a long way.
when i closed the garage door the plug was smooth as glass.




You can wet-sand out the craters and dust particles, with 600 - 800 grit. From my experience, when you make your mold, use extra layers of FG mat around the highest edges of your plug (deepest edges of your mold), and extra layers in the space in between your two parts.
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Old 08-06-2011, 09:57 AM   #63
twodollardoug
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Originally Posted by HickOnACrick View Post


You can wet-sand out the craters and dust particles, with 600 - 800 grit. From my experience, when you make your mold, use extra layers of FG mat around the highest edges of your plug (deepest edges of your mold), and extra layers in the space in between your two parts.
cool.... thanks hick.....

since the mold is so smooth do i just sand the very small imperferction? there are only 2-3 of them. or do i sand the whole plug. also, if i just sand the small imperfections, do i keep sanding with finer and finer and then polish to mirror finish like the rest of the plug?

im kinda broke and dont have any fg mat. but i have lots of fiber glass. a real thin piece shiny smooth piece for the first layer....then i was gonna use the thicker fiberglass i have to build it up. its not chopped glass but heavier cloth....maybe what, 10-12 layers. would that be sufficiant? or should i use more.

do i vacuum bag the mold? or is it not nesecary for the mold? i hope to make a dozen or 2 parts from the mold. maybe more
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Old 08-07-2011, 12:45 PM   #64
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Would kevlar fabric work as a seat cover? Would it stand up to the sun and conform to the curves in the seat? I think if it would work, then I would not have to worry about abrasion anymore.



My stock seat cover is starting to give up.
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Old 08-08-2011, 04:35 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by twodollardoug View Post
cool.... thanks hick.....

since the mold is so smooth do i just sand the very small imperferction? there are only 2-3 of them. or do i sand the whole plug. also, if i just sand the small imperfections, do i keep sanding with finer and finer and then polish to mirror finish like the rest of the plug? You can just sand the imperfections. Begin with 200-grit if they are large imperfections, 600-grit if they are small. Progressively move to higher-grit paper as you sand and it will progressively get smoother. The finer grits (600 and higher) should be wet-sanded for the best results. In between grits, make sure you clean the surface to remove residual grit from the coarser sandpaper.

im kinda broke and dont have any fg mat. but i have lots of fiber glass. a real thin piece shiny smooth piece for the first layer....then i was gonna use the thicker fiberglass i have to build it up. its not chopped glass but heavier cloth....maybe what, 10-12 layers. would that be sufficiant? or should i use more. I have never used fiberglass cloth, so all I can say is make the mold as strong as possible wherever there are edges. You can buy FG mat from Home Depot for $6.99/package, and I bet you wouldn't need more than 2 packages. The more parts you plan to make, the tougher your mold will need to be. Remember that regardless of what you are using to make your mold, make sure when it dries to a tack, you are ready to add your next layer - whether that be more resin/gelcoat/epoxy, or fiberglass. When the last layer applied is tacky, it will still chemically bond with a new layer.

do i vacuum bag the mold? or is it not nesecary for the mold? i hope to make a dozen or 2 parts from the mold. maybe more...I can't say that I have ever vacuum-bagged a mold. I think this would just be a waste of resources. More important is to prepare your plug to perfection, including a good mold release agent - either 4-5 layers of good mold release wax, or uniformly layered PVA. Also, when you make your box for the mold, make sure you allow the plug to hang over the box by at least an inch. This will make pulling the plug easier.
Good luck
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Old 08-08-2011, 04:42 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by nuggets View Post
Would kevlar fabric work as a seat cover? Would it stand up to the sun and conform to the curves in the seat? I think if it would work, then I would not have to worry about abrasion anymore.



My stock seat cover is starting to give up.
I believe when Kevlar is used as armor, it is sandwiched between other abrasion-resistant fabrics, such as Cordura. Layering Kevlar atop your seat without covering it with leather, "pleather", or some other abrasive-resistant material would only result in frayed material after the first use. Having worked with Hybrid fabrics of Kevlar, I can tell you that even a hangnail can permanently fray and damage the fabric.
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Old 08-08-2011, 05:45 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by HickOnACrick View Post
I believe when Kevlar is used as armor, it is sandwiched between other abrasion-resistant fabrics, such as Cordura. Layering Kevlar atop your seat without covering it with leather, "pleather", or some other abrasive-resistant material would only result in frayed material after the first use. Having worked with Hybrid fabrics of Kevlar, I can tell you that even a hangnail can permanently fray and damage the fabric.
Thanks, I had understood that kevlar gave a lot of abrasion resistance, so it seemed it me be a good seat cover materail. Hope you guys didn't mind the threadjack too much.
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Old 08-08-2011, 09:34 AM   #68
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thanks hick. i think im gonna try to infuse it...... it looks like laying it up dry will be easier...
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:59 PM   #69
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Adding Kevlar to the mix

Quote:
Originally Posted by HickOnACrick View Post
Yes, you can use the original skidplate, cover it with wax, PVA, or both, then lay up the CF atop that. I would guess 8-10 layers for a solid piece. I would use polyester resin instead of epoxy to save on $$. You can actually pick up resin and hardener at your local Home Depot...save you shipping and Hazmat fees.

The time-consuming part will be sanding the original skidplate so it is smooth as can be, before adding the wax and/or PVA. When you begin, I would have the resin without catalyst already measured out, with pre-measured catalyst ready to go. Also have all your CF pieces cut and ready to go. Once you add the catalyst and hardener, you're working against the clock.

Once it is cured and ready to cut, I use my Dremel and a diamond-tipped cutting wheel, to prevent frayed edges.

Good luck.

I don't want to attempt to overstep my boundaries of knowledge and experience here however I would like to add another ingredient to that skid plate. Carbon Fiber will only go far as to protect your vulnerable frame and engine casing from sticks and stones but once in a while your going to come across something with a bit more substance and mass and even the best built carbon fiber guard will suffer from a direct hit or grind.

The ingredient I wish to add is Kevlar. Extremely abrasive resistant and it wont shatter or brake in-half like carbon. I'm not trying to say that carbon alone is bad, just that your only addressing half the issue with carbon alone.

Assuming you are building this on a home made mold or are even using the OEM skid plate as the mold and that layer number is going closest to the bike, then ideally I would lay up this skid plate with layers 1-9 like this...
1. Carbon Fiber
2. Kevlar
3-6 Carbon Fiber
7 Kevlar
8 Kevlar
9 Carbon Fiber/Kevlar matrix

Between layers 6 &7 add a few strips of waffle cardboard. They only need to be a couple of inches wide but need to run the length of the bottom of the pan. It also helps if these strips of cardboard cover the mounting holes

It would also pay great dividends later to reinforce the mounting points with an extra layer or two of carbon fiber

I helped my mate build this same bash guard last month and it has seen some very aggressive testing over the past week. So far, the final layer (closest tot he ground) has shown the evidence of war. The carbon/Kevlar matrix has taken a good thrashing and the carbon strands show a bit of splintering in some places. However, the Kevlar has done it's job very well and it's damage is only cosmetic.

In hind site we could have, and should have, made the 9th layer Kevlar as well. It would have looked a bit odd as a final layer but in this case it's all about function over fashion.

I hope this helps,

Dave
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Old 08-12-2011, 09:41 AM   #70
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Just want to make sure I have this right.

Make a model of what you want
Bondo it
Epoxy it
Wax it
PVA it
Box it
glass it

Pull the bondoed, epoxied, waxed, PVAd, Boxed model out.

That is my mold?

Thanks

D
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Old 08-12-2011, 09:44 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Dastard View Post
Just want to make sure I have this right.

Make a model of what you want
Bondo it
Epoxy it
Wax it
PVA it
Box it
glass it

Pull the bondoed, epoxied, waxed, PVAd, Boxed model out.

That is my mold?

Thanks

D
That is the gist of it. Add in some sanding between steps, and you have it.
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Old 08-12-2011, 05:22 PM   #72
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Epoxy first cause the bondo will eat the foam if that' what you're using. Use guide coats for each sanding session. Otherwise you just end up sanding in low spots and you're not sanding for any purpose really just wasting time and layers.

What's the boxing bit all about?
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Old 08-12-2011, 06:21 PM   #73
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That is the gist of it. Add in some sanding between steps, and you have it.
So the bondo then epoxy layer is pulled out and that is your shape? Meaning the epoxy layer on the bondo better be perfect because that is what your final shape is going to be?

Thanks.

D
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Old 08-12-2011, 10:05 PM   #74
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So the bondo then epoxy layer is pulled out and that is your shape? Meaning the epoxy layer on the bondo better be perfect because that is what your final shape is going to be?

Thanks.

D
Bondo will dissolve styrofoam, but I use styrofoam posterboard, and the Bondo dries before it dissolves the posterboard.

Yes, once the epoxy is added over the Bondo, that is your shape (plug). You'll want the plug to be as perfect as possible.

This is styrofoam posterboard, covered by 3-4 coats of Bondo.


After covering with 3-4 layers of epoxy:


Once the epoxy cures (1-2 days), I wet sand out the small craters and pinpoints, then wax, wax, wax.
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Old 08-12-2011, 10:06 PM   #75
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What's the boxing bit all about?
The box:


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