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Old 08-08-2011, 05:35 PM   #61
DisTech
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motodavid2000 View Post
DisTech -

Sorry, I misunderstood what you were suggesting. We are looking at stem lengths now, but the problem that I see with using the stock DR650 stem with the KTM upper triple clamp is the bearing pre-loader setup on the DR650 uses a spanner / spanner nut threaded onto the stem, while the KTM upper triple is setup with a threaded bolt into / inside the stem tube and then clamped in place with a pinch-bolt to hold the preload setting.

Will post up what we determine - thanks again for the input - Dave
You're right, one uses a nut and one uses a bolt. It still works. You can see the bushing Jesse made for the smaller DR stem in the larger KTM clamp. Oh and I looked up where I got the idea from. Ron Seida's Building a DR650 Adventure... and he is using a DR650 stem. Check it out lots of pics.
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Old 08-08-2011, 08:13 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisTech View Post
You're right, one uses a nut and one uses a bolt. It still works. You can see the bushing Jesse made for the smaller DR stem in the larger KTM clamp. Oh and I looked up where I got the idea from. Ron Seida's Building a DR650 Adventure... and he is using a DR650 stem. Check it out lots of pics.
DisTech -

You're the man - a photo helps me out alot. Now I get the bushing placement and use in the upper triple to bush out the dimensional difference between the KTM clamp and the Suzi stem. Thank you very much for posting !

I will also check out Ron Seida's info - did not know that existed either.

THANKS - Dave
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Old 08-08-2011, 08:58 PM   #63
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Bluhduh Fuel Line

Not sure if I like how this turned out or not. I wanted to use a rebuildable inline fuel filter and found the Pingel - same as my fuel petcock manufacturer vs. a clear plastic inline fuel filter. I wanted to be able to clean it if plugged or dirty and not carry a spare plastic filter. Plus the housing is machinjed aluminum and should be tough.

When received it is a bit LARGER than what I had anticipated. Crap.

I have tried to route the fuel line & filter to be away from my legs & boots, tucked up under the tank; and not get hooked on brush or twigs. I also installed fuel line armor to try and avoid any chance of a puncture.

Fuel Filter with cleanable / replaceable insert



Installed




Far away from the cylinder head & heat source



The fuel filter is actually tucked in & under the tank fairly well - view from the top looking down - cannot see the filter or fuel line



Any input or suggestions for improvement ?

Dave
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Old 08-08-2011, 09:21 PM   #64
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The way the fuel will need to go down and then back up is sure to cause a problem. When you've got the weight of 5 gallons of gas pushing down on it, then it should be OK. But by the time you have only 1/2 a tank of gas left, there may not be enough force on it to push it back up into the carb inlet. In effect, you'll be running out of gas when you're half full. Perhaps a 90 degree elbow to bend it in, or shorten the hose. Either way, the hose shouldn't sag lower than the carb inlet.
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Old 08-09-2011, 01:35 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpididump View Post
The way the fuel will need to go down and then back up is sure to cause a problem. When you've got the weight of 5 gallons of gas pushing down on it, then it should be OK. But by the time you have only 1/2 a tank of gas left, there may not be enough force on it to push it back up into the carb inlet. In effect, you'll be running out of gas when you're half full. Perhaps a 90 degree elbow to bend it in, or shorten the hose. Either way, the hose shouldn't sag lower than the carb inlet.
Having experimented with various alternative routings with my Safari and a similar style filter, I see no issues with what Dave has done. The Safari presents more challenges because of an even lower head at low fuel levels. What we have here is a siphon and it should stay full. It is air bubbles that cause problems when the line goes up and then down, an inverted siphon, but like this, down and then up, should be fine, especially with the IMS.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=157

Steve
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Old 08-09-2011, 10:43 AM   #66
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Awesome build. Thanks for the photos. Makes very nice reading. I'm in.

Just a questions though. Why ditch the stock carb? I know the throttle response and performance edge etc, but the stock CV is far more forgiving with regard to altitude and climate changes that you'll be encountering. The CV carb is also simpler with fewer parts to go wrong. Plus, the CV is more economical in the area of fuel consumption, which appears to be a minor concern.
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:31 PM   #67
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Not true.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawidad View Post
. . . . Plus, the CV is more economical in the area of fuel consumption, . . . .
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Old 08-09-2011, 01:32 PM   #68
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Good to see you're still at it!

Hope you can balance out the front end. Maybe use a well set up STOCK DR650 to remind yourself how the stock bike should "feel" and handle?
Just as a reference model.

Love the Ohlins .... but obviously way too high. Handling must be scary ...
Watch out for "Moose" bearings. (All Balls)

Regards the 18" conversion ... I believe you've been away from Cent. & S. America a while. The 17" rear tire is more readily available these days.
In fact, the 18" are very hard to find. Lots of local bikes use a 120 or 130/17 ... plus most BMW's, KLR, DR's, XT's and many more.

Here is a quote from Crashmaster's Ride Report. He raves on about this more vehemently in another thread regards time wasted searching for 18" tires. He just did two years and 49,000 miles on his KTM990:

Quote:
Originally Posted by crashmaster View Post

Now to spark some endless debate, tires. I'm not sure how many tires I went through, but I think it was 9 rear tires and 6 fronts. Most of the time I would run what I call a Mullet. Its a dual sport rear (Pirelli MT90 Scorpion) and a knobby front (Pirelli MT21) This combo worked great for me throughout my trip. The only time I ran full knobbies (MT21's) was in Bolivia. I had 18 and 21 inch hoops and at times finding a 140 X 18 rear tire was a slight problem, but not too bad. I just had to plan ahead. However, 130/140 X 17" tires were pretty much everywhere and very easy to find IIRC. Of course 21" front tires are available just about everywhere.

Anyway, that's about all I can think of for now.
But you can probably use "connections" to stock pile tires in key places ahead of time.

I was curious if your frame was Heat Treated again after the plates were welded in place?
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Old 08-09-2011, 01:56 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motodavid2000 View Post
Not sure if I like how this turned out or not. I wanted to use a rebuildable inline fuel filter and found the Pingel - same as my fuel petcock manufacturer vs. a clear plastic inline fuel filter. I wanted to be able to clean it if plugged or dirty and not carry a spare plastic filter. Plus the housing is machinjed aluminum and should be tough.

When received it is a bit LARGER than what I had anticipated. Crap.

I have tried to route the fuel line & filter to be away from my legs & boots, tucked up under the tank; and not get hooked on brush or twigs. I also installed fuel line armor to try and avoid any chance of a puncture.

Fuel Filter with cleanable / replaceable insert

Any input or suggestions for improvement ?

Dave
That filter is a beauty IMO. But the real test with any filter using the IMS tank is range ... and does the filter and hose routing allow you to use ALL fuel in the tank. I'd definitely run the tank dry so you know what your "true" range is and so you know if all fuel is available.

I've had mixed results with inline filters ... at times going onto reserve with over 1.5 gal remaining in the tank.

Now, with NO in-line filter (and by rotating inlet fuel tube) I can go about 235 miles before reserve (stock jetted carb). Not sure on the Pingel petcock ... hopefully it allows a longer range for reserve. The stock supplied petcock for the IMS allows only about 10 or 15 miles MAX on reserve! This sucks!

I've run out a few times. But you can often lay the bike over on it's left side ... slosh remaining fuel over to left lobe ... and get a few more miles down the road.

Love to hear a testing report out on rough ground, fully loaded!

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Old 08-09-2011, 03:16 PM   #70
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Forks & Wheels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Good to see you're still at it!

Hope you can balance out the front end. Maybe use a well set up STOCK DR650 to remind yourself how the stock bike should "feel" and handle?
Just as a reference model.

Love the Ohlins .... but obviously way too high. Handling must be scary ...
Watch out for "Moose" bearings. (All Balls)

Regards the 18" conversion ... I believe you've been away from Cent. & S. America a while. The 17" rear tire is more readily available these days.
In fact, the 18" are very hard to find. Lots of local bikes use a 120 or 130/17 ... plus most BMW's, KLR, DR's, XT's and many more.

Here is a quote from Crashmaster's Ride Report. He raves on about this more vehemently in another thread regards time wasted searching for 18" tires. He just did two years and 49,000 miles on his KTM990:

But you can probably use "connections" to stock pile tires in key places ahead of time.

I was curious if your frame was Heat Treated again after the plates were welded in place?
Yes, still at it & will be for awhile I think. For me, the experimentation is part of the fun yet at the same time I want to get it done and ride the thing to get it "right". We are sorting out the headstock bearings first, then forks - we'll see how it goes. Handling is indeed a bit scary ad has a pronounced weave to it. I expected it after we had done the initial measurements & reassembly, but was a bit surprised at the effect.

I stopped operating in Central and South America in 2008, but we ran enduro tours, so 18 inch full-knobbies were the rule and not DS tires in 18 inch size. I have read the reports & opinions on 17 inch vs. 18 inch DS tires south of the border. I do plan to do more research on this topic as I get closer to a date for the trip - but that is quite some time in the future.

I went with the 18 inch wheel in part due to the front end / height & also to get the stronger Excel wheel. I still have the 17 inch stock wheel and as you know it is a quick and easy swap if I ultimately elect to use the 17 inch wheel for the trip. For sure no All-Balls bearings after what Jay experienced!

I wondered if anyone would ask about post-weld heat treating. The short answer is no, I did not feel that heat treating the mild-low carbon steel frame was worth the effort, nor had we induced sufficient differential heating to merit post-weld heat treatment IMHO. I am not a metallurgist, but have worked with large bore and small bore nuclear grade welding - including dissimilar metals. Low carbon steel characteristics are just not that affected by the level of heat that we input via the small gussets - in my opinion. My 2 cents.

This bike is a bit of an overall experiment and time & heavy use will prove or disprove what I have done. Should be interesting to see - just hope that I am not stranded somewhere in the Andes ....... I have ridden at high altitude in the Andes Mountains in Peru before and my XR650 and I were both wheezing alot.

I also plan to carry a 1 or 2 gallon Rotopax fuel container with me - that will be yet another modification project to figure out where that will be mounted and secured.

Lots to do yet, for sure.

Thanks again for your comments, suggestions and observations !

Dave
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:15 PM   #71
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CV Carb vs. Mikuni Pumper TM40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawidad View Post
Awesome build. Thanks for the photos. Makes very nice reading. I'm in.

Just a questions though. Why ditch the stock carb? I know the throttle response and performance edge etc, but the stock CV is far more forgiving with regard to altitude and climate changes that you'll be encountering. The CV carb is also simpler with fewer parts to go wrong. Plus, the CV is more economical in the area of fuel consumption, which appears to be a minor concern.

Kawidad -

Thanks for looking through the thread. Good question on the carb & all I can say is that we'll see with time how the whole package performs - or not.

My opinion is that the Mikuni's overall performance will outweigh any possible negatives on the need to re-jet periodically as the variables in altitude require. Going to the TM40 flatslide carb (or similar) has been one of the most recommended mods by many on this forum and others on the DR650 that I have read.

I am not overly concerned with the cost of fuel, but certainly range is always an issue with how I intend to use my DR650. I need to get the moto finished & rideable and then see how it truly does on fuel economy, true range, resolve any petcock / filter / fuel line routing issues, etc. when ridden on gravel roads, fire roads and tarmac.

I am not planning on any single track use with my DR650, as I have my trusty XR400 for that - another heavy girl, but truly a lightweight compared to my loaded & fully fueled BMW R1200GS/Adventure.

Many riders have quoted 50+ mpg with the stock CV carb on the DR650; while others have quoted similar figures with the flatslide. I don't have any data myself to agree with or to rebut what others have stated.

I did ride my DR650 enough when it was stock to know that I was not too impressed with the stock CV carb or the stock suspension - on light gravel roads and tarmac.

Thanks again for looking and for "following along" on my experiment(s) with the venerable DR650....

Regards - Dave
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:01 AM   #72
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Yeah, just cruising along the MPG should be very close and could be better with the new carby. The twist of the wrist is where the MPG goes way down because of the accelerator pump.

BTW, whoever is doing your welding is a true artist. Those welds are a thing of beauty. And, the way you approached the frame gussets are really nice and appear to be well thought out and well executed. Jolly good show.
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Old 08-10-2011, 11:51 AM   #73
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Throttle Hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawidad View Post
Yeah, just cruising along the MPG should be very close and could be better with the new carby. The twist of the wrist is where the MPG goes way down because of the accelerator pump.

BTW, whoever is doing your welding is a true artist. Those welds are a thing of beauty. And, the way you approached the frame gussets are really nice and appear to be well thought out and well executed. Jolly good show.
Kawidad -

Ha, ha !! Absolutely, twist the wrist and watch the range [mpg] go away quickly - you got it !

Thanks much for the compliment on the welds. I will let my welder know - he is an artist and is super creative. He has more talent in his little finger than I could ever even HOPE to have. I am always envious of people that have fantastic fabrication talents.

regards - Dave
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Old 08-10-2011, 03:53 PM   #74
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Pumper Economy

If its jetted correctly, there is almost no difference in economy. On my recent trip, my FCR equipped DR650 was the second most economical bike of the 4 DR650s on the trip. The shape of the top of the airbox also makes a difference in my experience for both stock and pumper carbs. The usual cutout as per Jesse and MxRob works fine. I have tried some different arrangements, as has a mate of mine, and throttle response and economy suffered.

And in more technical terrain where you are on and off the throttle, and maybe the economy suffers a little, its a far more enjoyable ride. However, if you only cruise, a pumper is probably not worth the effort.

Steve
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Old 08-13-2011, 07:05 AM   #75
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build thread

Nice build Dave - thanks for the time and effort. (I wish that I could put the time in to complete my build write up).

As BergDonk said, the carb upgrade is worth the extra enjoyment. I havent tested my fcr enough to post economy results but when I do, i'll post the results.

I took BergDonks recommendations and sent my Ohlins, and WP4860's to Frank Pons and on my first brief ride today, I was impressed.

I'm not sure if you noted the way I adapted the headstem/ bearing fit but for now it works. With the money that you seem to be spending on the build, I'd go the machining a new stem option to fit the DR ID's straight-up. I will also travel this path in the future.

Good luck with the build Vs time! I'm tuned in.
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