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Old 08-09-2011, 04:21 PM   #46
djb_rh
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Originally Posted by Grreatdog View Post
OK so I checked out that site. They want $16,000 to convert my 4Runner to an oil burner.

But I go from 20mpg to 30mpg and from $3.48 to $3.70 for fuel resulting in a cost savings of about $500 per year.

Which means I will recoup my investment in only 32 years.

Sweet deal. Probably beats the stock market right now.
Yeah, I don't think anyone will buy the fact that the math is in your favor. You have to really want to be driving a diesel instead of the gas offerings they have. The V6 does kind of suck, in my experience, and is only marginally better with a supercharger (I had a doublecab 4x4 Taco with some goodies on it). Problem with the SC is they are so damned loud. Got about 14MPG towing and 17MPG empty with it.

But the diesel will probably have a longer life, be more fun to drive, and I'm guessing won't be nearly as loud as the supercharged gasser, and maybe just as quiet as the normal engine. Oh, and at least help pay for itself, even if it never does finish that off. *shrug*


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Old 08-09-2011, 07:57 PM   #47
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not a difficult problem- go to another dealer. :P when we bought my wife's jetta tdi, the local dealer wanted $3k over msrp, and wouldn't budge. so we went to another dealer, where we got $1300 under msrp (published invoice). this was when there was a $1300 tax credit too.
The dealer I priced seems to have the best no-haggle prices in the country, I just bought a 2011 Routan from them for $10,000 off of sticker (clean deal, no trade). The difference in MSRP between the gas and TDI Sport Wagen is $5,000. Are you telling me that they will discount a TDI more than the gas Sport Wagen? I don't think so. Plus there are factory to dealer incentives on the gas Sport Wagen, nein on the TDI. Even with the tax credit, the final out the door purchase price is about $5,000 more for the TDI. It will take a lot of miles and years to recoup that delta in initial purchase.

Granted, I think the TDI are awesome. And it is probably the only vehicle out there that will haul a dirt bike or two down the highway at 75 MPH and exceed 30 MPG. My buddy hauled 3 motorcycle from NY to Colorado with his TDI Sport Wagen and got 38 MPG!!!
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:35 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Trail Ryder View Post
The dealer I priced seems to have the best no-haggle prices in the country, I just bought a 2011 Routan from them for $10,000 off of sticker (clean deal, no trade). The difference in MSRP between the gas and TDI Sport Wagen is $5,000. Are you telling me that they will discount a TDI more than the gas Sport Wagen? I don't think so. Plus there are factory to dealer incentives on the gas Sport Wagen, nein on the TDI. Even with the tax credit, the final out the door purchase price is about $5,000 more for the TDI.
Are you comparing like-like trims?
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Old 08-10-2011, 07:02 AM   #49
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Are you comparing like-like trims?
Pretty much. This can be verified on VW.com.

The TDI is $5,000 to $6,000 over the gasser, but you are getting a hell of motor, that tows like nothing else in it's class.
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Old 08-10-2011, 08:46 AM   #50
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Pretty much. This can be verified on VW.com.

The TDI is $5,000 to $6,000 over the gasser, but you are getting a hell of motor, that tows like nothing else in it's class.
seems like a $5k difference is comparing the (relative) stripper model (S), vs comparing the more like SE with the TDI (delta of $1255).
http://www.vw.com/en/models/jettaspo...ims-specs.html
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Old 08-10-2011, 11:38 AM   #51
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seems like a $5k difference is comparing the (relative) stripper model (S), vs comparing the more like SE with the TDI (delta of $1255).
http://www.vw.com/en/models/jettaspo...ims-specs.html
Yes, but the gasser qualifies for factory to dealer incentives (plus special financing) that the TDI doesn't. If you have a dealer that discounts, the difference in actual purchase price is about $5,000. Believe me, I know. I purchased a 2011 VW Routan a few weeks ago, and talked to the sales person about TDIs, as I am a BIG fan of the TDI Sport Wagen.
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:12 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Trail Ryder View Post
Yes, but the gasser qualifies for factory to dealer incentives (plus special financing) that the TDI doesn't. If you have a dealer that discounts, the difference in actual purchase price is about $5,000. Believe me, I know. I purchased a 2011 VW Routan a few weeks ago, and talked to the sales person about TDIs, as I am a BIG fan of the TDI Sport Wagen.
all dealers discount.

there doesn't appear to be any factory to dealer incentives currently.
http://www.cars.com/go/advice/incent...jsp#Volkswagen

there is a consumer incentive ($1250 (but this varies regionally)) or special financing (this is an OR, not a PLUS), not that the special financing is that special- 2.9%-5.14% depending on terms; i can do as well at my credit union.

i still don't see where you get a $5k delta w/ the se, unless you're pricing in a discounted msrp (in addition to incentives) on the se but not on the tdi.
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:57 PM   #53
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Resale, resale, resale. The TDI's hold their values better than just about any other vehicle on the market. Combine that with the extra mileage and the payback time for the price premium is a lot shorter.
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Old 08-10-2011, 02:03 PM   #54
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Best i can think of is a 04+ Ford Ranger with the 2.3L and the manuel trans.

Should be good for 30mpg at around 70mph empty.

I currently have a 08 ranger ex cab with the 3.0L v6 and a auto trans. Empty and driving normally it averages about 22mpg. Hauling home a buddies bike a 92 Suzuki Katana 600 plus myself and budd the truck managed 20mpg and that was at 120km/hr (75mph).

Prior to the ranger i had a 04 Jetta TDI. I am also a HUGE diesel enthusiast (hell i make my living fixing diesels).

But all things considered as in total vehical cost, fuel cost, repairs, Reg maintenance, And insurance cost my Ranger only really costs me $600/year more than the VW did.
Numbers start getting harder to calculate thought when you include things like resale value and the fact that the VW needed a hitch and a trailer to do what the ranger does.

So basically they so close it really not much of a savings to go with the Diesel VW over a small pickup. Add to that my numbers are with the small V6 rather than the 4cyl in the ranger and its feasible to actually be cheaper to run a ranger than a VW if you intend to tow.
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:29 PM   #55
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. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699526
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Old 08-11-2011, 04:12 PM   #56
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Crikey, where did everyone get the idea you need a truck and/or a diesel to tow anything?

A Toyota Corolla is rated to tow 1,600 pounds and has 130hp. Many other small cars have similar or better performance, although some are rated by the manufacturer's lawyers to tow as little as 1,000 pounds.

On a trip from Indy to Atlanta with a small flat trailer to fetch a vintage bike (a '79 GS850 -- big heavy bike!), my Corolla got an honest 33mpg on the way to ATL (trailer not loaded), and 30mpg on the way back (trailer loaded). This was all highway, 75 to 80mph all the way, two people in the car, AC on. The rig would easily go a good bit faster when necessary -- you sort of have to in ATL...

The trailer I used for this trip was a borrowed small flatbed with no sides or ramps, normally used to haul a riding lawn mower. With nothing sticking up, it was very "slippery" aerodynamically.

The biggest problem when towing with a small car is aerodynamic drag -- a trailer with a folding tailgate, even if it's mesh, creates a lot of drag and kills mileage and speed. A larger tow vehicle punches a bigger hole in the air.

Uhaul's motorcycle trailers are handy and only $25 a day, but they're rather heavy and have a vertical tailgate. On a trip to Chicago with a Uhaul trailer, I stopped and bought a length of chain and some connecting links, and used the chain to lower the tailgate and hold it at a 45 degree angle. This made a dramatic difference on the highway, but the trailer still had a lot of aerodynamic drag. Mileage on that trip wasn't the greatest -- about 25mpg, but I could easily sustain 80+ MPH on the highway when needed.
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Old 08-11-2011, 04:54 PM   #57
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Crikey, where did everyone get the idea you need a truck and/or a diesel to tow anything?

A Toyota Corolla is rated to tow 1,600 pounds and has 130hp. Many other small cars have similar or better performance, although some are rated by the manufacturer's lawyers to tow as little as 1,000 pounds.

It's a matter of vehicle longevity, and how much you want to have to worry about the transmission, too. I don't know what kind of Corolla you're driving, but my wife's Corolla does well to take itself down the highway. I wouldn't put a heavy trailer behind it. 'course hers is an '02 CE with a 3-speed auto. I pulled a 3300# trailer with my 2AZ-FE Camry last year, but I wouldn't want to climb the Rockies with it. I also got only 16 mpg while doing it.
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Old 08-11-2011, 05:03 PM   #58
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Crikey, where did everyone get the idea you need a truck and/or a diesel to tow anything?

A Toyota Corolla is rated to tow 1,600 pounds and has 130hp. Many other small cars have similar or better performance, although some are rated by the manufacturer's lawyers to tow as little as 1,000 pounds.
Our Subaru is RATED to tow 2,000 lbs, but fully loaded with an 1,800 lb trailer on it, with brakes, it's barely, barely enough with the 5 speed manual. And it's HARD on the car to tow a lot of miles - we towed 25,000 miles on ours and it's cost us a driveshaft, full set of brakes and a set of tires just don't last.

Yea, if you only want to tow once in a while, and not long distances, a smaller vehicle can work for you but for regular, heavy duty towing, nothing beats the right machine for the job.

Honestly, take the tow rating of your car and cut it in half - that's about your maximum comfortable long range tow capacity.
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:13 PM   #59
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:21 PM   #60
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