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Old 04-20-2014, 06:14 AM   #1
Rogdog OP
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Question Help - G650GS Intermittent Stall - Where is that electrical fault?

HELP!! Been working on a very intermittent issue with my BMW G650GS (2009). On a random basis (twice on a long trip, 2 days apart - and then again the other day), the bike will just quit at speed. It dies like you were to hit the kill switch, just running and then not running. The only way to get it to run again, is to disconnect the battery for a few minutes. Disconnecting/reconnecting the CPU doesn't work.

I assumed a sensor was cutting out the engine, so I bought a diagnostic tool and this is the two errors I'm getting

25533Electrical system undervoltage (no longer present)



821Speed sensor (rpm), signal implausible (no longer present)

Both those errors don't really point to anything specific... but when the diagnostic tool was first hooked up to the bike it gave me a clue. The diagnostic tool returned a result saying it couldn't communicate with the bike. According to the manual the only reasons for failure to communicate are: Ignition not turned on (it was), bike not in neutral (it was), or kill switch engaged (it wasn't). Once I disconnected/reconnected the battery the bike started and the tool communicated with the bike fine.

So I need ideas - what would cause the bike to think it had a reason to shut off the ignition that resets itself when the power is turned off & then back on?

Unfortunately I live a few 1000 Kms from the nearest dealer, so I have to figure out the issue myself - I doubt my local mechanic will be able to find it.

Thanks guys.

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Old 04-20-2014, 06:39 AM   #2
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I am not saying this is your bike's issue but... a shit load of fuel pump impellers were set up to tight.
These pump innereds were used in many bikes with just different outer housings.
Disconnecting the battery may just give the pump time to cool down and spin up once again.
Open the tank fill cap and listen for the pump when the key is turned on.


Much more here.
https://www.google.com/search?q=bmw+...uel+pump+issue
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Old 04-20-2014, 07:00 AM   #3
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Thanks OldPete - I saw reports on that fault too. Also one about a recall on the charcoal cartridge. The reason I am pretty confident it isn't a fueling issue is first when I say it quits abruptly, I mean no sputter, no hesitation - just running and then not running.

Second, the last time the problem happened, I walked it home about a km (lucky for me I live in a flat place)... and tried to start it a few times. It then sat for a week till I had time to look at it... still no start. But, once the batter was off and then on - bingo started immediately.
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Old 04-20-2014, 07:42 AM   #4
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Yeah, disconnecting the battery will reset the computer.

Might just be a corroded connection sending a fault or open.
On older bikes I am a fan of DeOxit. A cleaner, lube and conductant.

Might want to ask/search over at f650.com
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Old 04-20-2014, 07:59 AM   #5
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Check the wiring harness on the front right upper frame area near the air intake.
I fixed one a while ago that chafed thru and caused a dead short to the frame.
I have since protected 2 others in that area
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Old 04-20-2014, 09:37 AM   #6
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First thing I would check is both ends of the battery ground cable. Clean and tighten.
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Old 04-20-2014, 11:11 AM   #7
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Eek

+1 on DeOxit (formerly Cramolin). On every connector.

Also check the sidestand switch.

Sounds like an intermittent short. I'd pull the whole airbox off and run my fingers along the harness feeling for abrasion. Particularly near the steering head. It could be further back along the bike, but that is probably less likely than somewhere forward of the ECU.
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Old 04-20-2014, 11:17 AM   #8
Anorak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GS Addict View Post
Check the wiring harness on the front right upper frame area near the air intake.
I fixed one a while ago that chafed thru and caused a dead short to the frame.
I have since protected 2 others in that area
That or the ignition switch. With the bike running turn the wars left to right all the way and pull on the wires in the area GS Addict mentioned.
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Old 04-20-2014, 04:11 PM   #9
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Awesome - I like the consistency that it is a wiring issue, so I can confidently go searching. Now if you had all only said - yeah that is an easy one to find.

Thanks !!
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Old 04-20-2014, 05:09 PM   #10
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Eek

Just let us know where you find the fault.

Good luck.
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Old 04-20-2014, 07:23 PM   #11
lnewqban
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Cool2

Being five years old and rolling in a humid climate, it is normal that some electrical connectors have deteriorated.
I would check all the safety switches and all the contacts of the ignition system, especially the ones for the CDI and ignition coils.
It is typical of ignition coils to quit when becoming hot, just to work normally after cooling down.
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Old 06-09-2014, 05:40 AM   #12
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Eh? Update & related question

So - the plot thickens. I searched the wiring and couldn't find anything. So gave up, took it to the local mechanic, and described the conditions. He then took the bike, went over the electrical, then came back saying 'fixed'.

What he told me was the following. In the fueling system, there is a valve that opens and closes based on throttle position/running condition. He said it is called the VRD valve, and he cleaned it and it works fine...but he recommends I order a new one so he can replace it. He said this is also why it wasn't idling very well (this was true sometimes it didn't idle reliably). I can't find any part or reference to an VRD valve.

It surprises me that could be the issue as the stalling was so quick. There was no sputter but just an absolute running to dead stall. On the other hand, I've seen there is a recall on the charcoal filter and associated parts due to fouling issues, so it wouldn't be inconsistent with what I've heard is an issue with this bike.

What do the inmates think? Could he be talking about the fuel-evaporation control valve?

Thanks for your advice.... the bike seems to run fine now. Although as the issue was sporadic before, it is possible it isn't fixed.

Thanks!
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Old 06-09-2014, 09:40 AM   #13
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Eek

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogdog View Post
So - the plot thickens. I searched the wiring and couldn't find anything. So gave up, took it to the local mechanic, and described the conditions. He then took the bike, went over the electrical, then came back saying 'fixed'.

What he told me was the following. In the fueling system, there is a valve that opens and closes based on throttle position/running condition. He said it is called the VRD valve, and he cleaned it and it works fine...but he recommends I order a new one so he can replace it. He said this is also why it wasn't idling very well (this was true sometimes it didn't idle reliably). I can't find any part or reference to an VRD valve.

It surprises me that could be the issue as the stalling was so quick. There was no sputter but just an absolute running to dead stall. On the other hand, I've seen there is a recall on the charcoal filter and associated parts due to fouling issues, so it wouldn't be inconsistent with what I've heard is an issue with this bike.

What do the inmates think? Could he be talking about the fuel-evaporation control valve?

Thanks for your advice.... the bike seems to run fine now. Although as the issue was sporadic before, it is possible it isn't fixed.

Thanks!
Never heard of a VRD valve. Common throttle problems seem to be associated with the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) and a Idle Actuator. The fiche calls these thing the throttle valve switch and the idle control device.
Usually they are associated with erratic idling, not cutting out.

I think he may mean the pressure regulator/filter unit as it can totally starve the fuel system if it is wonky. But there is no way to "clean" it that I am aware of. BMW recommends changing the thing every 12,000 miles (20,000 km) or so. BMW part number is 13 53 7 669 776.

Still, it doesn't follow the two electrical fault codes you originally mentioned, but maybe they were from long ago and unrelated.
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Current Rides: '13 Sertao, '98 Bandit 1200, Currently a 1200 piece puzzle: '86 R80G/S PD
Past: '66 Suzuki T10, '72 CL350, '74 GT550, '80 GS750, '7? XT500, '83 RM250, '85 XT500

Motopsychoman screwed with this post 06-09-2014 at 09:45 AM
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Old 09-21-2014, 06:08 AM   #14
Rogdog OP
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The Solution

So... been meaning to close this thread for some time, but never got around to it.

The issue (despite my conclusion that it was electrical) wasn't... exactly - it was both electrical and fuel. After lots of futsing around and inspecting wiring, fault codes, etc... I gave up and took it to my local mechanic. He claimed a part on the throttle body, and game me an acronym that had me scratching my head. So I took in the manual and had him point out the part - the throttle actuator valve. I was skeptical but had nothing to lose. Ordered the part and picked it up next time I was in Canada. Suprise, suprise... problem resolved. So there you go. Electrical part, but a fueling issue. He tells me it is a common problem on BMW's.
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Old 09-21-2014, 06:17 AM   #15
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Yep,good find. You can actually clean those as well. They get pretty gunky.


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