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Old 12-05-2014, 06:35 PM   #1
PilbaraGoat OP
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Smooth 1000cc thumper vs Small twin adv bike?

Gday all,

Firstly Ill define my ideal off-road adventure bike:
Range of over 550kms
Over 70hp
Under 180kgs wet, with luggage racks and adventure lighting etc installed
Fuel injection and water cooled
Emergency two up only required
Tall ergonomic
Evenly spread 6 speed gearbox happy to idle in first through technical stuff or cruise at 130kph on the bitumen.

In bitumen I have ridden a few of the adventure twins
Multistrada I loved it
This bike change my riding life, I had no idea how much fun bitumen could be Just WOW
1200GS Easy to ride
I didnt like the shaft drive or the boxer wobble
KTM1190 test ride only
I rode this bike while I was still in love with the Multistrada.
I had to admit, reluctantly, that I preferred the 1190 over the Multistrada except for the useless screen
KTM990S for 5 minutes only
I think this came closest to what I am after and I think it is easily the best looking
A pity about the fuel consumption

All of these bikes are too heavy for what I have in mind.

I am interested in Hondas rumoured new adventure twin, though I prefer the artists rendition of the CRF1000 to the actual finished product. Sadly it looks like this will be too heavy as well.

Maybe Ive been barking up the wrong tree all along.
What about a large (maybe up to 1000cc) single.Would a 1000cc single be perhaps 10kg heavier than a 690cc?I cant imagine there is that much extra material required.
Could it be possible to smooth out the characteristics of a large single by installing a heavy flywheel and tuning for more torque?

What would be the drawbacks?
What would be the advantages?
What would be the possibilities?
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Old 12-05-2014, 06:46 PM   #2
Louis Wambsganss
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I would think a 1000 cc single would require a massive flywheel and/or countershaft to smooth out the natural cycle pulses. Even then, it would probably still not be as smooth as a multi-cylinder engine. It would also require a really beefy starting system and/or compression release mechanism, which adds a little weight and complexity.
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Old 12-05-2014, 07:08 PM   #3
The_Precious_Juice
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Water cooled

Keep in mind i can hardly ride a MC, and i can't even work on them, and i do not understand the mechanics.

Ohh, before I forget. Interesting thread.

I have the Mighty Dr which if you round up to the nearest hundredth, she would be a 1,000 cc (mine is 651cc not 645)

I think the best way to have the 1,000 thumper is to have her air oil cooled. Why? Mellow power (65 horse power tops/ 75lbs of torque). With such low horse power and so much oil and surface area on the outer cylinder, no way she would get too hot. Just dead wieght with that water stowed on board.
This liter thumper would be a good dualsport, not a good ADV touring transport. Unless the sixth gear (more weight) was hella tall, then maybe she could be good, and if you added weight to make the engine more balanced and smooth (think Honda CRF250L).

I think she could come in around 405lbs/ 420lbs tops if you build her in the image of the Mighty DR (EFI included and sixth gear of course). 3.4 gallons of fuel.


Final thoughts.
I would pass. Way too much power. I could not imagine almost doubling the DR's torque and only adding 42lbs- 54lbs. Plus, woulde be vibie.

Next post the small twin.
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The_Precious_Juice screwed with this post 12-05-2014 at 09:18 PM
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Old 12-05-2014, 07:29 PM   #4
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Small twin

If you look at 470cc engine of the three Honda sisters, I think this is as big as you need (solo riding of course.)

I will give you the water cooled stuff now. You are welcome.
I would prefer somthing as small as 375cc and built by Yamaha so that the 270 p.twin will provide the most torque.

Hell, if Yamaha can make a naked 698cc MC that is 398lbs, they should be able to make a mini Tenere for 400-415lbs tops. Granted no abs, or traction control or 81 suspension options, etc, etc.

Horse power would be 40 tops, and torque ...?? not sure... 35lbs tops (could be off on estimation)

Final thoughts.

I would buy this?
Lighter than a KLR, AND better off road,
DR like acceleration (from mid range and up), AND way effing smoother on the tarmac.
Sick awsome fuel economy.
Would purchase this.
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The_Precious_Juice screwed with this post 12-05-2014 at 07:46 PM
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Old 12-05-2014, 08:01 PM   #5
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The idea with the 375cc Tenere

Somewhere inbetween the MIGHTY DR and KLR off road (performance wise)
Somewhere inbetween the new Suzuki GW250F and CB500X on the tarmac. (cruising wise)
That would be a very good all rounder, and a great ADV touring transpo.
Solo touring wise.
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The_Precious_Juice screwed with this post 12-05-2014 at 08:44 PM
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Old 12-05-2014, 08:45 PM   #6
Orangecicle
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I'm downsizing from a 950 (about 540 pounds) down to a 690 (about 320 pounds). The 690 has the same horsepower-to-weight ratio -- about .18. Each has six gears. Both are pretty smooth on the road. I plan to install a KTM Basel Quest kit on the 690. The 950 is far better at two-up touring, which is something I rarely, rarely do.

In the end, I think I'll be very happy with about 200 less pounds. It's not a 1000cc beast, but I think it'll do.
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Old 12-05-2014, 09:11 PM   #7
The_Precious_Juice
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one liter thumper niche

After you add weight to stabilze the vivby engine and such, she would be 50-65lbs lighter than the Tiger 800XC. 2015 model.

With her tall sixth gear, efi, and mellow hp, she should could get 60mpg while touring with a Tiger on the slab, but it will not be comfortable, but utiliterian.

Off road, the liter bike will take point, but only a good rider could really push her and make the Tiger seem like a cub.

Like a typed, a good enduro or great dual sport.

Too much off road power for a punk like me.
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The_Precious_Juice screwed with this post 12-05-2014 at 09:28 PM
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Old 12-05-2014, 10:02 PM   #8
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After riding a friend's 690, I can't imagine a better single cylinder motorcycle engine. The thing is a bad ass force of nature. It is not twitchy "snappy fast" it is "inevitable fast" like a big fat river or a locomotive. It surges forward and is bogproof regardless of the situation. The 690 never comes up short, I love that engine.
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Old 12-05-2014, 10:41 PM   #9
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I have to agree that the 690 is a great bike, although not ideal for highway droning. I am very interested in the news that KTM is working on some smaller v-twins. I am sure one of those might end up in some kind of adventure model. Probably a year or two off at best. The full size adventure bikes are just way too heavy for me.
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Old 12-06-2014, 01:24 AM   #10
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The only bike that comes close to your wishes is a 690 Enduro with a Basel kit on it, or a 690 Rally if you are ok with carb vs. FI.

All the current twins are going to add an extra 80-100 lbs once they are kitted out the same.

You can ride it at 130 km/h on the highway but it's much more relaxed at 110-120, and that is fast enough for most places on the planet except continental Europe.
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Old 12-07-2014, 03:58 PM   #11
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I agree that the 690 is the closest to my ideal in regards to weight and power.
I've been tinkering with my 2008 690e since 2008!
I've got over 40.000 very happy kilometres on mine now.

There are parts of all the different adventure kits that I really like too.
Basel, H.A.R.D. 700RR, Rally Raid all look great.

The Safari tank is awesome and I think I like the look of the HDB set up for lights etc.

But I guess I'm not talking about the closest thing to my ideal, I'm interested in the theoretical mechanical possibility of achieving 50% more power with only minimal weight gains.

I've been told my a mechanical mate who builds his own motors that the biggest problem might simply be the damage to the drivetrain from the thump, thump, thump of such a large single.

Might need quite a spongy cush drive.

Does anyone have any information on the reliability of the DR Bigs, the DR750 and DR800?
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Old 12-07-2014, 05:47 PM   #12
Idle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PilbaraGoat View Post
What about a large (maybe up to 1000cc) single.Would a 1000cc single be perhaps 10kg heavier than a 690cc?I cant imagine there is that much extra material required.
Yes, perhaps it would be much more than 10kg heavier.





Info here:
http://husaberg.org/mechanical/16007...cc-engine.html

More pics of it here as well as the Highland and other dreamy mills.

http://husaberg.org/mechanical/17723...ning-pics.html




But realistically, you could do well with a DR650 with a 790 kit, and a FCR carb (or FI), intake and exhaust to suit.
Of course you would want RMZ forks and clamps and an rmz swinger/shock, a brake upgrade and a rekluse clutch to have a near perfect ADV bike.

That's what I would build if I had the time and patience.
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Old 12-07-2014, 05:52 PM   #13
Auto-X Fil
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This is a troll, right?
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Old 12-07-2014, 06:14 PM   #14
The_Precious_Juice
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Location

Can't be.

NORCAL does not have any Trolls.
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I do not have any info on the DR big. Maybe the Mighty DR was such a hit that they stopped production.




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You know gang, I looked at the 690 Enduro as a ADV touring transpo for my touring this year.

For that price, I do not want to hear about gas tank issues, or fueling issues or whatever. I do not want to hear about any issues. The only thing I am worried about are where the garages are during the tour.
I could have worked with the short 6th gear. I ride below 100KMph 90% of the time. She is 60% dirt for sure and way more performance than I need on the tarmac and on the street.

I went with a Dualsport, not an Enduro.


But, KTM is selling MCs. That is great! Hell, I saw a Duke today.
And yesterday I went over to my Stealership and had a look over the MCs. The 2012 S10 is still there. I went back and posted her status in a thread, and in the pic was the KTM Beast 1190 or whatever. I thought, wait, they must have sold her, it was not there. I am pretty sure they did.

Maybe the new 390cc (or something) will be made into a ADV touring MC. I would be interested in her. Even with a short sixth gear. She would be much smoother and weight below 370lbs. Bad ass Alaska MC.
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USA Deep South ride report: http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=948886
Team: Japan/ 21" and 17" tyre size.

The_Precious_Juice screwed with this post 12-07-2014 at 06:19 PM
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Old 12-08-2014, 06:09 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Auto-X Fil View Post
This is a troll, right?

Another android pussy troll.

b
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