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Old 09-01-2012, 08:07 AM   #5371
crankshaft OP
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Originally Posted by rickypanecatyl View Post
I don't know that I've ever had mine boil over, but it spends a lot of it's time running at really high temps that I doubt is good for the engine.
Another benefit of using the Micro squirt is the ability to program the temperature that the fan comes on and shuts off. In my experience, it's best to get ahead of the cooling rather than try cooling it when its that much closer to boiling. I have a fan switch on my Berg, so I can turn the fan on when I hit single track and keep things cool.

Maybe I should start a thread on it
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:09 AM   #5372
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Originally Posted by rickypanecatyl View Post
I don't know that I've ever had mine boil over, but it spends a lot of it's time running at really high temps that I doubt is good for the engine ...
I never put my finger in the rad to check if it's boiling down there, but a pretty good indication it's getting close to, is a column of vapor, and the need to re-fill every 3 to 4 rides. It happens here, and not only to me. It happens also to KTM 525, 530 and 500 that rides with us. Some of them swaped to propylene glycol - better but not perfect -, few swaped to Evans Coolant - Problem mostly fixed -, And very few of them installed HT Racing oil cooler. Even fewer have gone with a combination of Evans Coolant and HT Racing oil cooler. No more problem.

I should have taken picture last week ...

Something that's little known is what is happening when coolant reaches the boiling point. Pockets of vapors accumulates left and right. The temperature of gas is not limited like liquids. Water will remain at 100 celcius, up until it's evaporated. But vapor will increase in temp as long as you heat it. So when your coolant reach the boiling point, the temp in your motor surges because of vapor pockets. That vapor is pretty good at rusting your motor at a very accelerated pace too. Two solutions: You get rid of the heat. Or you get rid of vapor. Propylene glycol is more efficient and transporting heat. Rougly 20% better. Still have the boiling point issue. Which is around 10 degrees higher then Prestone. It helps getting rid of temperature. Evans coolant approach is waterless coolant. It allows you to run your motor at much higher temperature without the adverse effect of water evaporating. Essentialy, you keep the heat, but get rid of vapor. Drawback is its not compatible with water. In case of trouble, you have to flush it and swap with water temporarily.

I'll give it at try next year.

Paul Jr 8
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Gros Buck screwed with this post 09-01-2012 at 06:01 PM
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:17 AM   #5373
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If anyone is interested.....

http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...5#post19496275
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:58 AM   #5374
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Originally Posted by Gros Buck View Post
Water will remain at 100 celcius, up until it's evaporated.
This is only true at sea level atmospheric pressure.

At higher or lower pressures, the boiling point of liquids changes. In a closed, and then pressurized by steam, system - the boiling point can be much higher, up to the point allowed by a blowoff valve or some other weakness in the system.
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Old 09-01-2012, 04:44 PM   #5375
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Originally Posted by rickypanecatyl View Post
I don't know that I've ever had mine boil over, but it spends a lot of it's time running at really high temps that I doubt is good for the engine.

The following is more legal info than true mechanical info... most here know I went thru 3 engines on my 2008 E. In trouble shooting and brainstorming why with KTM NA after the first one I told them that it often ran just one or 2 bars shy of overheating.
Exactly how to you know you were close to overheating? Because the temp guage was at 2 bars from the top? That merely reflects the normal operating temp. The thermostat kicks the fan on at 221* which is at 2 bars from the top. Overheating = boiling over. If you never boiled over then it's very doubtful you were ever close to overheating the bike. Even at 1 bar it's very doubtful you were close to overheating as the boiling point of anti freeze is something like 275*

I've run my rad at less then half full in 95* heat and never overheated or "come close" either. it never went passed the NORMAL operating temp i.e. 2 bars from the top.
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Old 09-01-2012, 05:19 PM   #5376
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Originally Posted by crankshaft View Post
How about roadkill? Easily found on most any highway, really strong and the fur would make a great insulation layer from engine heat.
You know the first composites we're made from animal sinue by the Mongols over 3000 years ago so I spouse you could stuff a hole in your radiator with a bit of RK
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Old 09-01-2012, 05:23 PM   #5377
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Originally Posted by Mac View Post
This is only true at sea level atmospheric pressure.

At higher or lower pressures, the boiling point of liquids changes. In a closed, and then pressurized by steam, system - the boiling point can be much higher, up to the point allowed by a blowoff valve or some other weakness in the system.
But the radiator is pressurized and wouldn't it keep a constaint pressure no matter what the elevation ? Being a closed system ( most of the time )
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Old 09-01-2012, 05:35 PM   #5378
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You know the first composites we're made from animal sinue by the Mongols over 3000 years ago so I spouse you could stuff a hole in your radiator with a bit of RK
Group buy on Caveman rally skid plates?
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Old 09-01-2012, 08:45 PM   #5379
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If it is your side stand switch issue, the magnet on the side stand can be easily loosened and adjusted.

Mine had the wires coming out of the stator cover shorting out that would cause intermitent electrical issues. Might be worth checking?
Cheers I will check it out
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:53 PM   #5380
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Originally Posted by Mudguts View Post
But the radiator is pressurized and wouldn't it keep a constaint pressure no matter what the elevation ? Being a closed system ( most of the time )
Close. More accurately, a radiator is sealed and allows pressure to build up to a certain level. The boiling point of the coolant directly varies with the pressure. Once the pressure is lost, due to a valve opening or something similar, the boiling point drops accordingly.
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Old 09-01-2012, 10:23 PM   #5381
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Close. More accurately, a radiator is sealed and allows pressure to build up to a certain level. The boiling point of the coolant directly varies with the pressure. Once the pressure is lost, due to a valve opening or something similar, the boiling point drops accordingly.
Exactly. But the point I wanted to underline previously is what's the effect when it boils. Or get close to it. The most damageable thing is vapor. Because it corrodes the motor rapidly, and it has a much higher temp then surrounding liquid. So if your coolant do not turn into vapor, you can run your motor at higher temperatures. That's the main selling point of waterless coolants.

By the way, when one reaches 8 bars (somebody here have written 12), it blinks. I say that for those who wonder what's happening the coolant is about to boil ...

That said, I just cannot imagine that having a second fan could not be an interesting option at least for some ... I'm not sure I would go into the jungle with a coolant that I could not add water in case of emergency. In those cases, a second fan is a better safety then a better coolant ...

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Old 09-02-2012, 01:34 AM   #5382
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We have been looking into the possibility of an aftermarket alloy radiator for some time,using our library of 690 CAD drawings.
Some of the features that would be incorporated into a new design would be:
1.Replace M6 threaded inserts on top front of rad with welded on tabs,with M6 clips,so if the rad screen screws were overtightened,it would not put stress into rad.
2.Replace plastic rad cap with EXC type cap,so that a 1,8 bar cap could be fitted.
3.Seperate overflow outlet,a la EXC,instead of the plastic elbow on top of OEM cap.
4.Replace welded-on lower tabs for side panels with a seperate mounting tab connected to a wrap round frame,completely disconnected from the cooling cores.

As you can see from the diagram,it would be possible to add a mount for an extra fan on the right hand side,but it would need the following mods.
1.Reposition stock coil further back,only up to 2011 models.
2.Alter angle of inlet pipe on new radiator.
3.New,longer rad hose for above.
4.Re-position fan sensor t/stat lower to clear hose.

Whilst it would,in theory,add more cooling capacity having 2 fans running,when the fans are not running,they add an obstruction to airflow through the radiator under forward motion.So the effect of adding an extra fan may not be a straightforward plus point.

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Old 09-02-2012, 03:13 AM   #5383
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Still need some help with my starter problem; if anyone can offer some wisdom It would be appriciated. There is power to the starter button and the kill switch works fine...bridged the terminals on the starter solanoid and it started right up so there is either a break somewhere or something is telling the starter not to work....which i still suspect is the sidestand safety switch but as I don't know how to test/check it i have no way of telling. Can any of you fine fellows point me in the right direction on this?
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Old 09-02-2012, 03:33 AM   #5384
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starter problems

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Still need some help with my starter problem; if anyone can offer some wisdom It would be appriciated. There is power to the starter button and the kill switch works fine...bridged the terminals on the starter solanoid and it started right up so there is either a break somewhere or something is telling the starter not to work....which i still suspect is the sidestand safety switch but as I don't know how to test/check it i have no way of telling. Can any of you fine fellows point me in the right direction on this?
We carry a spare bar switch for rallies,as we have had a few problems with dust/sand entering the starter switch and causing the brass contacts to not touch properly.
The only definite way to eradicate the problem is to replace the large cluster switch with an EXC waterproof push-button starter switch & a separate on-off rocker for the stop.
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Old 09-02-2012, 04:04 AM   #5385
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John just wanted you to know if you could make a version with just 1 more powerful fan (maybe throw in a high, medium and low) that could be quickly removed, plugged into some extension wires and hung nicely from the ridgeline of a hammock I for one (and who knows how many others there might be) would be interested!!
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