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Old 10-22-2012, 12:35 PM   #6061
Roadracer_Al
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Originally Posted by FriedDuck View Post
OTOH I rode a 950SE .... Damn Damn Damn Damn Damn Damn. I do not need another bike.
Yup. You Violated Roadracer Al's #9 rule for Happy Motorcycling: never ever ride a bike you can't afford to buy or can't fit in your garage.

If you ride it and love it and can't buy it, then you're miserable. Of course there is also the potential problem of damaging an expensive bike that isn't yours.
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Old 10-22-2012, 12:49 PM   #6062
The Letter J
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Originally Posted by crankshaft View Post
. A Poem, funny story or a cool picture will do and all content will be kept private Nothing is free in this world, so earn it
You can keep the rack, so consider this a freebie! My attempt at riding the 690 up "the geekslide"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87ZnB...layer_embedded
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Old 10-22-2012, 12:52 PM   #6063
Barman
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Originally Posted by The Letter J View Post
You can keep the rack, so consider this a freebie! My attempt at riding the 690 up "the geekslide"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87ZnB...layer_embedded

Yard sale. Hilarious. Hope you're OK.
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:09 PM   #6064
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Originally Posted by BK.RD.RNR View Post
Have you tried the Pirelli XCMH?
I really like those too. I go back and forth between that and a Pirelli Rally. It seems to me that the XCMH lasts longer but doesn't grip quite as well off road.
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:23 PM   #6065
The Letter J
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Originally Posted by BK.RD.RNR View Post
Have you tried the Pirelli XCMH? .
I've got the XCMH on the back of the 690 right now (will be slick by 900 miles) but I never tried it on the front. The tread pattern of the front looks too similar to a few other fronts that I have run that I did not like. I've got a Pirelli rally front and motoz x-circuit rear on the way.
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:56 PM   #6066
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Originally Posted by MFS View Post
Hey there RoninMoto,

My electric ability is limited unfortunatley, but the starter turns, I've had the plug out and she sparks when starter button is hit.
I think you have a fuel problem, not an electrical problem.

3 things to make a bike run: Fuel, Spark and Air. Seems like you have spark and Air.

I would suggest pulling your injector and turning the bike over to see if you have spray from the injector. If not, move toward the tank. and see if you are getting fuel out of the fuel line when you turn the bike over.

Just start eliminating what the problem "could" be.
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:07 PM   #6067
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Originally Posted by The Letter J View Post
I've got the XCMH on the back of the 690 right now (will be slick by 900 miles) but I never tried it on the front. The tread pattern of the front looks too similar to a few other fronts that I have run that I did not like. I've got a Pirelli rally front and motoz x-circuit rear on the way.
I liked the XCMH rear, but it wore even more quickly (than 900mi) for me. Having not run too many true dirt tires, it took me a bit to get used to a tire that wants to spin/chew/spit for traction, but I was impressed with it's performance on most surfaces (wet rocks/ dirt/ mud) other than pavement.

If I (for me personally) was going to choose a set of tires intended for dirt only from what I have run on the 690, I would go with a Motoz I/T rear, and an XCMH front. Although, no one with a set of knobbies ever called me a hard core offroad rider either.
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:31 PM   #6068
motoged
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MotoZ HT for rear and Pirelli XCMH for front......happy with those....may try Uller's choice of Pirelli Scorpion Pro on front next....but happy w/ XCMH on front as long as I am not racing into paved twisties.
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:56 PM   #6069
crankshaft OP
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Originally Posted by The Letter J View Post
You can keep the rack, so consider this a freebie! My attempt at riding the 690 up "the geekslide"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87ZnB...layer_embedded
Holy crap That was the most awesome thing I've seen in a few weeks
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Old 10-22-2012, 03:35 PM   #6070
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Originally Posted by RoninMoto View Post
I think you have a fuel problem, not an electrical problem.

3 things to make a bike run: Fuel, Spark and Air. Seems like you have spark and Air.

I would suggest pulling your injector and turning the bike over to see if you have spray from the injector. If not, move toward the tank. and see if you are getting fuel out of the fuel line when you turn the bike over.

Just start eliminating what the problem "could" be.
Just went through the same thing. 100% correct. My pump was priming (CA Cycle works) fuel was coming out with plenty of VOLUME, but little pressure. I was getting a spray from the injector, but it wasn't good enough. Take the feed line off the fuel rail, and see if you can stop it up with your finger just turning the key on. If not, work forward, if you can work back toward the tank.
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You shoulda told me to do this a long time ago
My bad
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Old 10-22-2012, 03:47 PM   #6071
bobzilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzztail View Post
Just went through the same thing. 100% correct. My pump was priming (CA Cycle works) fuel was coming out with plenty of VOLUME, but little pressure. I was getting a spray from the injector, but it wasn't good enough. Take the feed line off the fuel rail, and see if you can stop it up with your finger just turning the key on. If not, work forward, if you can work back toward the tank.
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:12 PM   #6072
Gros Buck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Letter J View Post
You can keep the rack, so consider this a freebie! My attempt at riding the 690 up "the geekslide"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87ZnB...layer_embedded
Completely hilarious. I've done something like this this summer. Felt straight on my head like a jack hammer. Helmet was cracked 5 inches afterward ...

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Old 10-23-2012, 01:22 AM   #6073
Reshad
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I have a fuel pump problem, please help

Only just got around reading the last few weeks of Advrider subscriptions and was most enthused to see a the string of posts on the OEM fuel pump issue and thought I’d share my experience. Sorry for the bulky essay style, but this is the best way for me to share…

One month after I got my otherwise in perfect condition third hand ‘09 690 duke with 14,000 km on the clock, I began having what we shall refer to as an apparent pump problem, here’s the list of events in order of occurrence followed by my two cents…

Bike rode perfectly normal for 650 km. Went to work one morning and to the beach in the afternoon…had a beer with my mates, got on the bike to go home tried cranking - Niet, and nearly killed the battery trying. Towed the bike home rather disappointed. The only observation at the time was an error flashing code 4x long, 1x short. User manual informed me of the possible cause being an Interruption or short-circuit to ground in fuel pump control circuit – “Pump problem” diagnosed and I thereafter began listening for pump priming after reading a few forum posts on pump issues.

Removed the cold pump from the tank the next day and tested it with a direct 12 volt feed straight from the battery. It didn’t turn at all, and appeared to be stuck, but returned to apparently normal function with a slight tap on the pump body - mechanical failure of some sort, IMHO. Didn’t test the pump for flow rate, but I guestimate it may have been low and probably continued to decrease with time.

Fuel filter however was full of non-dense fine black particulate matter, not attracted to a magnet so plastic or carbon. Seen locally available fuel flow through clear filters for years on my moped and not accumulate black stuff so I doubt it was dirty fuel. Rinsed the fuel tank with clean fuel to see if there was anything out of the ordinary…nothing, tank was squeaky clean. So I cycled injector cleaner mixed into fuel through the pump until it started freely upon activation with 12 volts, i.e. without tapping. Put it all back together, bike started and worked okay for a few 100kms.

The next stall occurred after another normal ride; I’d stopped the engine to take a picture of the bike with the sea in the background and once done it I couldn’t get it to crank. This time, being aware that the pump should prime but didn’t, I gathered a tap on the side of the tank where the pump is housed should sort it out, and it did with no cooling necessary! For me that was confirmation of my mechanical “Pump problem”

This problem became recurrent– an issue shall we say, that IMO required a new pump, more specifically the CA Cycleworks pump, given the amount of babble on every forum I’ve joined since I got the bike. Seen as I live on a remote island on the opposite side of the Earth from California, it took a while before I could lay my hands on the said pump. So I just went about my business tapping my tank every time it stalled and looking like a crazy fool patting his bike. No accidents, thank my luck, it never stalled in traffic.

Things got worse though, occasional problems cranking from cold in the morning and the most embarrassing farting noises from an otherwise beautiful bike. On cranking it would start, struggle to stay on, fart, stall and this despite an ultrasonically cleaned injector and a new fuel filter that incidentally also got black. Tank tapping resolved this too – Mechanical, so we have a go? No!

This deteriorated! The bike would almost never crank the first time off; it required tank tapping each time, as well as a tiny bit of throttle to stop the engine from dying prematurely. Would stall more and more often during the first 5 minutes of riding and remain hesitant at low speed with horrid surging, but otherwise okay at cruising speeds.

Fortunately for me, a couple of mates came to visit me from the UK and brought my long awaited CA Cycleworks pump, shipped across the world from China to California, shipped to the UK then carried across the globe to me in Rodrigues. What a waste, now I need to plant a tree to offset its carbon footprint.

Anyhow, I whacked it on two Sundays ago; sorry no photos as it’s all explained on page 52 of the service manual or using the exploded diagrams in the freely available spare parts manual page 14 for the 2009 version. Two silly fitting problems noted: 1) neither of the female electrical connectors clicked into place – resolved by sanding them down a few microns, and 2) the hose clamp CA Cycleworks provides wouldn’t tighten the hose enough to keep it safely on the bottom half of the filter pipe – resolved by pushing it up all the way to the filter body where the filter has more girth. Just to point out I had my doubts as to it staying up there with the increased pressure of the new CA pump! Anyway, some info for those without the service manual: 5 Nm of torque for the fuel pump assembly screws.

Fuel pump error codes were cleared and the new pump tested using TuneECU’s diagnostic function… A new pump sound that was audibly more powerful than the old OEM’s. Disconnected the Mac, put the seat back on, took the bike outside, turned the ignition on…another instant loud purring pump sound. The obvious clearing of air bubbles made it struggle a tad on cranking, but then it grunted brightly to life without the slightest “tank tap” what do we have here? It didn’t stall not once and had a perfectly regular idle. Took her for a quick spin for a fill at the petrol station 2km away. What a ride…torquey, smooth, powerful and regular, just as the bike should be, and it has been like that ever since.

All hunky dory apart from last Saturday morning when I went into town to do my shopping and the bike died. It felt like I fan out of fuel so my intuition was hose must have slipped off since there were no error codes generated. So, while I doing my shopping, I picked up a more appropriate clamp for 10 Rupees (~20 US cents), picked up my tools from home, popped the tank and pump housing off, and to my satisfaction, the pump hose had effectively slipped off the filter! Resolved this by replacing the fancy CA clamp with a cheapo galvanised cooking gas hose clamp.

I went for a sweet ride around the island’s twisties with a mate on a Suzuki 650 Bandit right after resolving the hose issue - 1cm chicken strip noted when we ended our rides at the beach. Another sweet ride with my lady on Sunday afternoon and can’t say I’ve ever enjoyed the bike as much since I got it.

Now here are a few key observations from my experience, and obviously this applies to my bike…All my observations suggest a mechanical failure: 1) tapping to activate the pump, 2) pump sticking with direct voltage testing, 3) black particles coming from the pump getting trapped in the filter and 4) new pump instantly resolving the “Pump issue”

I find it hard to believe in that my case I had an ECU problem for the same three reasons, plus the fact the CA pump hasn’t given a hint of trouble as yet from day 1 and it was the only change to the system bar disconnection of the pump from the electrical system.

I cannot believe removing the pump can reset the ECU simply because I disconnected the pump in the past when I last changed the fuel filter without any noticeable change or improvement of my pump issue.

I didn’t disconnect the battery for the replacement so no “battery removal ECU reset” to take any credit either. In the recent past I also disconnected the battery terminals once without any noticeable change or improvement of my pump issue.

I also passed injector cleaner mixed with fuel through the pressure regulator and frankly considering how it is designed, I highly doubt this rather crude mechanical device could be the cause of my issue and this is confirmed by the fact cleaning it brought no noticeable change or resolution of my “pump issue”. Just to reiterate what has already been said, the fuel pressure regulator is not attached to the ECU, the spare manual shows this and it is not on the wiring diagram either.

Lastly, I did a 15min idle reset at the last change of season without any noticeable change or improvement of my pump issue. So for me it is clear my ECU was not the culprit.

My recommendation to all if I may-
1) Keep your fuel pumps covered in fuel at all times as the fuel cools and lubricates the pump internals preventing premature failure. This means filling the tank before the bike asks you to! This is known throughout the fuel injection vehicle world no matter how many wheels are attached to the engine.
2) Change your fuel filter as a standard service item regardless that KTM don’t say so in any manuals!
3) 690 users should think twice about replacing faulty pumps with OEM because it is more expensive and is now known to be prone to failure!
4) One repairing action at a time helps rule out confounding effects.
One caveat, new broom sweeps well…only time and reports of CA pump failures will tell if the Chinese CA pump is of better build than the Czechoslovakian OEM. “Le Monde a l’envers” some may say!

FYI, I haven’t dremelled my pump open and I don’t plan to yet, because I would like to try using it to build a fuel injector-cleaning tool. Tapping the pump body will be a fine way to activate the injector cleaner When it dies completely I will open it up, see what I find and report back, but I suspect any permutation of the following: too small clearances, expansion of internals with heating and poor quality components.

While I’m at it, I’d like to raise the question on the function and size of the two holes on either side of the base of the fuel pump housing - 1 or 1.5 mmØ. These appear to allow the transfer of excess fuel pressure from the pressure regulator to the pump housing, increasing fuel pressure at the pump inlet. Or they may allow fuel into the housing to feed the pump. I think I read somewhere they may also help cool the pump but this is BS as fuel at the bottom of the tank should be cooler that residual fuel from the pressure regulator that just passed through the hot pump. I think a few larger holes in the pump housing base would allow more cool fuel to enter the pump; I’m sure I read of someone already doing that. Also, I’m starting to think the line coming out of the pressure regulator should be eliminated altogether so warm fuel doesn’t get near the pump inlet but instead floats close to the top of the tank. Furthermore, the weight of fuel in the tank should provide more than adequate pressure to feed a pump seated at the bottom of the tank and pulling in fuel at the very lowest point. My two cents anyway, but I’d love some input from others.

Thanks for reading,
Reshad
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:14 AM   #6074
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Well written, and mirrors what I've found.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugwest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzztail
You shoulda told me to do this a long time ago
My bad
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:09 PM   #6075
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So I decided to go ahead and pull the cylinder and check the rings. Good thing I did. The gap on the ring is supposed to be .8 mm on the compression rings and 1 mm on the oil ring. The top compression ring was 1.9 mm, the second comp ring was .85 mm, and the oil ring was 2.1 mm. Needless to say I'm waiting on a ring kit now.
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