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Old 09-15-2011, 07:45 AM   #16
DAKEZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr View Post
Spend the extra $300 on training, tires, gas, armor and have some fun.

Rod

^^^ This ^^^

Spending the money you save on training is far more likely to pay dividends.
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Old 09-15-2011, 08:00 AM   #17
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I won't argue that that wearing any helmet is better than no helmet...this goes without saying. However being an informed consumer helps me make a decision when purchasing anything. I want the best I can get for my money and that doesn't always mean the most expensive. That's the point the article makes the $80 DOT helmet was safer than the $400 Snell helmet so knowing that you can save that money and spend it on something else....like training.

So no I'm not going to slap just any bucket on my head because its better than nothing. I'm gonna do a little research, try on the ones that I think will work for me so I know they fit right and give myself better odds than,...."better than nothing".
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Old 09-15-2011, 08:43 AM   #18
LittleRedToyota
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yes, any helmet is far, far better than no helmet.

but, a helmet that absorbs impact energy is definitely going to be better than one that transmits it to your head.

it's the same principle as crumple zones in modern cars...which make them much safer than older cars without them in collisions (even though being in any car is far, far better than being a pedestrian in a collision).
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Old 09-15-2011, 10:05 AM   #19
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I found this site to be useful in comparing impact ratings between helmets with different and or multiple standards ratings:

http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/

The most interesting, but probably least useful feature is seeing the severity of impact for different parts of the head for each helmet tested:



It would be nice if there was an equivalent site for helmets that are only sold in the US however. My Scorpion EXO-700 does a pretty decent job by their tests. Like the current standards, It is worth noting that the SHARP tests do not take into account rotational injury, so superskin helmets like the Lazer Solano see no advantage on them.
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Old 09-15-2011, 01:46 PM   #20
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Here's the actual Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 218, called the DOT standard, in Title 49 Code of Federal Regulations section 571.218
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=49&PART=571&SECTION=218&YEAR=2001&TYPE=PDF

One thing about the FMVSS218 standard is that it only tests the top of the helmet, so half-helmets can qualify for the DOT approval.

This shows the small number of helmets that NHSTA tests, and the ones that fail for functional reasons, not just labeling or something.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/testing/comply/fmvss218/

This and following pages of this link shows where the Snell M2010 standards meet and where they differ from ECE and DOT standards.
http://snellm2010.org/testingM2010.html

One think I find impressive is the limit on shock the helmet is allowed to transfer to the head, 275 Gs for Snell & ECE vs. 400 Gs for FMVSS218 (DOT). The harder the brain is allowed to bounce around inside the skull, the more brain damage occurs.
http://snellm2010.org/morePeakAcceleration.html

Snell M2010 helmets are available from about US$100 and up. As said above, and well documented by webbikeworld.com, helmet interior shape to match the rider's head shape is a critical part of proper helmet sizing and fit and safety.
http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcyc...met-shapes.htm
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Old 09-15-2011, 02:18 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helixblue View Post
I found this site to be useful in comparing impact ratings between helmets with different and or multiple standards ratings:

http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/

The most interesting, but probably least useful feature is seeing the severity of impact for different parts of the head for each helmet tested:



It would be nice if there was an equivalent site for helmets that are only sold in the US however. My Scorpion EXO-700 does a pretty decent job by their tests. Like the current standards, It is worth noting that the SHARP tests do not take into account rotational injury, so superskin helmets like the Lazer Solano see no advantage on them.

I think that showing the amount of protection by area is actually very useful. The temporal areas of the head are much more sensitive to impact, due to the bony protuberances within the skull.

I may look into switching helmets based on the SHARP review. I like the way that all of the bell helmets are five stars.
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Old 09-15-2011, 02:41 PM   #22
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The peak G's allowed by a helmet only tells part of the story. How long the G load is sustained is just as important. It may seem that Snell only allowing 275 Gs is better that the 400 G DOT standard but that is not necessarily the case. DOT limits the time allowed for over 200Gs and over 150Gs. Snell has no provisions for limiting the time that the G load is sustained.

As several have stated earlier, buy a helmet that fits and meets your needs. I would not worry about Snell or ECE certification. I certainly would not pay extra for Snell certification.
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Old 09-15-2011, 03:12 PM   #23
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Quote:
One thing about the FMVSS218 standard is that it only tests the top of the helmet, so half-helmets can qualify for the DOT approval.
This is why racing organizations require Snell approved helmets. It's also the reason I use them.
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Old 09-16-2011, 04:32 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kbetts;16856091[URL
http://www.msf-usa.org/imsc/proceedings/a-thom-comparisontestsofmotorcyclehelmets.pdf[/URL]
This comparison (the second of 4 links in Kbetts post) compares older standards including Snell 2005. The Snell 2010 standard is much "softer" and far more comparable to European standards.

The 2005 Motorcyclist article emphasized that any full-coverage helmet meeting any modern standard works better than the best helmets available a couple decades ago.
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Old 09-16-2011, 04:45 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helixblue View Post
I found this site to be useful in comparing impact ratings between helmets with different and or multiple standards ratings:

http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/
The SHARP tests are for helmet versions available in the U.K. It was common for manufacturers to make different versions of the same model to meet European standards or Snell (which helps a helmet sell better in the U.S., but isn't required). With Snell 2010, there may be less difference between U.S. and other helmets, but be aware that the SHARP tests are not for U.S. models.

I DID use SHARP to select my current helmet, but with the understanding that I was looking at overall performance of the manufacturer instead of impact data for the model I can buy here.

If you are interested in a flip-up, SHARP gives the % of time the chinbar stays closed during impacts.
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Old 06-02-2012, 03:17 PM   #26
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Why not Full Face

If you are going to wear a helmet why not just wear a full face. I mean we wear a helmet just in case of a crash. Why wouldnt a person want a helmet that would provide the MOST protection. I ride mostly in Florida and my buddies are always on me about "in this heat how can you wear a full face helmet". What they dont know is that I am actually cooler wearing a full face than they are wearing half helmets because of the insulation. It is true, they dont believe it. Just my opinion
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Old 06-02-2012, 06:49 PM   #27
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The facebook link above is a good one. The MSF article is way too old. The original Dexter Ford article is out of date.

DOT only tests a couple of dozen helmets a year. The manufacturers self-certify. I had dinner with the owner of a low cost Chinese maker, and she told me that they send their helmets to a Swiss testing company's Chinese lab for DOT testing and to a German lab for ECE testing. They don't do Snell. Snell does test the visor and the chin bar on full face helmets submitted to them. It is only recently that DOT allowed helmets sold in the U.S. to have both DOT and ECE stickers on them, even if the helmets had met both standards. I think the DOT spec is the bottom of the barrel. I'd prefer ECE and I also trust the new Snell M2010 standards.

The U.K.'s SHARP testing scheme tests the extend the helmets exceed the ECE minimums. Their article on helmet fit is a good one.
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Old 06-03-2012, 11:33 PM   #28
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I am wearing a Nolan.....
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:04 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr View Post
As far as unethical motorcycle magazine behavior. All I can say is Duh!

I was a young lad when I bought a motorcycle that was so highly rated.by ALL the magazines. An 82 Honda VF750 Sabre.

It is with out a doubt the worst motorcycle I ever owned. Now Honda did eventually make good V4. This was NOT it. I hated it.

Now I make up my own mind. All the magazines pan the Telelever suspension. Well, it feels different, but pay attention, feedback is there. It is really pretty darn good, and then stick on an Ohlins. Once you learn it, I really do not want anything else. The writer can not ride a bike a bit, and know it. When when they can get fired for telling the truth, sigh.

Re.helmets. Fit/comfort/venting/faceshield is most important. Any decent full face helmet is so much better than no helmet, the difference between brands is slight. Sure, IF your helmet were to fail, and somehow the rest of you survived, it would be bad. It happens, not often, but I am sure it happens. And we will never know if the low cost brand failed, if the expensive brand would have saved you, it might have been worse.. Compared to the no helmet carnage, huge improvement with any helmet.. Spend the extra $300 on training, tires, gas, armor and have some fun.

Rod
Someone hates every motorcycle built, magazine testing is simply an aid to use in researching for anything. Also it seemed few realized how much work it was to do valve adjusments on that bike and that it would rev to the sky - with no rev limiter - with valve float at around 12,000 rpm causing bent valves. One missed full throttle full rpm powershift could eat all eight intakes... happened to a friend. From there, all is personal preference.

By the way if Parelever is so damn hot for handling, why is BMW NOT running it on the superbike? Face it, your preferences just don't match some writers, it's hardly about being fired for writing the truth. It's about trying to relate what is going on in a particular model. They now tell when cruisers handle good... for a cruiser. The reader has to equate that with their preferences. I was in sales and knew the competition in 83. That Sabre was a departure from the norm and worked great other than the rev limiter thing. It wasn't my kind of ride, but it was far superior in power and power delivery than most any other 750 at that time. It had sport touring or even touring potential as well as being a great standard. The power spread was immense and smooth. That was part of the problem, too smooth, too easy to over rev. 1983 saw rev limiters on the V45s and V65s.

Back to helmets...

Fact is from the only reliable research so far most any helmet would work in most all accidents since the blows are usually glancing and of low impact since falling off a bike is only about 4 feet to the ground maximum. Falling off a bicycle is worse due to the height. Of course that is only the fall to the ground. The glancing blows are what would tear up one's bare head, thus the fact that any helmet would work.

You are 100% right, it's primarily all about fit first. Bad fit is a bad fit, whether on a $100 special or a $700 top shelf. Then it is about quality of interior, venting, features, and finish.

The point of the orginal Motorcyclist helmet expose was to bring out the point that price didn't always equate best protection AND THAT SNELL WAS RUBBER STAMPING AUTO SPECS ON MOTORCYCLE HELMETS. Snell did not have separate specifications for motorcycles. That caused Snell helmets to transmit more shock to one's skull. Snell also did not differenciate between head size which equated head weight. Now they do all this. It took that article, pissed off helmet manufacturers, and Snell being proven faulty for bikes to get it changed. Part of the drive behind the article were the people involved, to whom Snell would not listen. One specific one, Dr. Thome, a leading expert in helmet safety in design having worked with Dr. Hurt and others, gave the whole thing huge credibility. Learning from what they demonstrated I wouldn't be concerned over ANY helmet that has a bit of a name, regardless of price. Vega has good stuff, Z1R has good stuff, obviously Arai and Shoei have good stuff. I wouldn't be concerned with any of them on my head, other than fit.
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markk53 screwed with this post 06-04-2012 at 08:18 AM
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:34 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fine0311 View Post
If you are going to wear a helmet why not just wear a full face. I mean we wear a helmet just in case of a crash. Why wouldnt a person want a helmet that would provide the MOST protection. I ride mostly in Florida and my buddies are always on me about "in this heat how can you wear a full face helmet". What they dont know is that I am actually cooler wearing a full face than they are wearing half helmets because of the insulation. It is true, they dont believe it. Just my opinion
That and THIS:

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