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Old 09-22-2011, 02:06 PM   #16
kellymac530 OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motu View Post
The brakes on something of that era will most likely be duoservo (floating anchor) and putting a booster on it will make the brakes almost uncontrollable. Boosters are a must for disc brakes as they have no self servo action,the servo action on duoservo is very powerful.
Wow I thought I knew car lingo...I have NO IDEA what a duoservo OR a floating anchor is in regards to brakes????

Dual master cylinder?
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Old 09-22-2011, 09:37 PM   #17
sh0rtlife
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i wont get into the duo or floating...

but youve got litteraly 3 types of brake MC...you have a single put(more than likely whats on the truck but is what is on every bike with hyd anything)..

in the mid 60's all the car companys had switched over to dual pot IE pop the cap and you have a front and rear section all ran by a single piston..this ment should any end of the car failed..the otehr end would still work..atleast for some time..but being a SINGLE bore and piston your bound to get bleed over

then you have various forms of abs..where in more modern cases the mc is either something so strange and goofy or non existant

now..DUAL mc's is generaly found on well most all race cars built .....theres 2 versions( more if your talking about the mount and having a clutch pedal on the same box)..version 1 is what i consider a semi floating pedal..as in you have an adjuster that slides a rod between the 2 mc's to adjust front and rear break bias..as 1 mc runs the fronts 1 runs the rear..the other typ of dual is a fixed rod where bias control must be done with a proportioning valve in the lines..."most" 30's and 40s style streetrods and on into the 50s pu rods generaly use these setups....im running the same setup in my lloyd

this is a typical unit...youll take 1 look at it and think its an in floor unit..but...flip the mc's over and now you have a hanging unit.....

the second link is a standard race version
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Howe-...item588d75db2c


you will note the adition of the clutch...regardless its all basicaly the same design...tho this one can be fliped turned and taken apart and put back together to allow for floor mount forward, floor mount backward, underdash units, thru firewall units..its all in the orientation of the pedal and rotation of the mc units......

they make the mc's is quite a few size ranges...and they are all the same bolt pattern regardless of brand...howe, tilton, willwood, cnc, afco, coleman, us-brake, and a few others i cant recall there names....now mind you the rebuild kits for the mc's are NOT all the same..but there really seems to be only actuly 2 or 3 different designs the rest are all copys......rebuild kits are 10-20$ per mc
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SWS-R...item4394f64ea9

its certainly tryed and true tech...poke your head into the newwest nascar or drag car or even gravedigger and you will find one of these units in one brand or another in it....poke your head into some of the "high" end stuff from the 60's and such and you likely find the same setup

there is only really 2 things i can say in regards to the units..1 solid mount them...SERIOUSLY solid mount them cause your foot exerrts a ton of force...secondly is that you will have to play with pedal length ratios and mc size..but to be honest its easier than you could ever imagine..just time consuming
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Old 09-22-2011, 10:09 PM   #18
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Hey shorty, I understand what a single pot MC and dual pot mc and dual MCs all are. I was just lost as to the Aussie lingo.

I actually disagree with one thing you said though. You said a single pot is what every motorcycle has tha has anything hydraulic...True and Not true. Yes there is 1 pot, but it is 1 pot for the front and 1 pot for the rear..that = 2 pots. Even if it has a drum rear with a cable or a rod, the front MC only controls 1 axles brakes. Thus I think that the single pot analogy is sort of inaccurate. A dual pot and a dual MC both use a separate tank and a separate piston cup or completely separate piston for each axles brakes. A motorcycle imho is essentially a dual MC no matter what.

Thanks for the links though. My truck has the 40s-50s style that pushes back under the cab with the MC pointing backwards and you have to take a little plate off of the floor to access the MC to add fluid.
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Old 09-22-2011, 10:16 PM   #19
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like this..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Unive...item2313dfb128
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Old 09-23-2011, 01:00 PM   #20
sh0rtlife
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thats the setup i figured you had..into the floor...and your right about the bike setup..it really is a dual mc setup

the nice thing about the dual MC units is if you need to you can stagger the sizes..the bias all that jazz...i mean youve got mcs ranging from 5/8s well over 1inch and thats just off the top of my head....where a dual pot unit your scratching your head and measureing and running part#'s its hell to try and figure out what units bigger and "if" it will mount....the dual setup you just swap em out and if it dont improve enuf you swap it out..its like swapping springs...the fact that you want to retain the old brakes just re-enforces the thinking of useing such a dual setup......and most units can be flipped revered etc is just a bonus...and if you dont mind welding..you can cut off the new pedal and weld in your old one or mod the mount to leave your old one exactly where it is to run the new units......i made my own arms and only used the mount and piviot point on a howe unit
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Old 09-23-2011, 01:57 PM   #21
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That is what I plan on doing, using a dual MC set up. I agree it opens up tons of options. I can get 2 mcs in 2 different sizes and if I have to buy a third and mix and match until I can find the right set up.

NOW WHAT SIZE do I start with...
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Old 09-23-2011, 07:28 PM   #22
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Larger shoe to drum ratio. Smaller trucks have smaller drums lager trucks have bigger drums. It may be easier to use a 1 ton back brakes. You can mess with MC crap all ya want, but Biger is better in the surface area department when it comes to drums. Might as well switch to disk.
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Old 09-23-2011, 08:08 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Harry Backer View Post
Larger shoe to drum ratio. Smaller trucks have smaller drums lager trucks have bigger drums. It may be easier to use a 1 ton back brakes. You can mess with MC crap all ya want, but Biger is better in the surface area department when it comes to drums. Might as well switch to disk.
Pretty sure I said in the first post that I was keeping the drums no matter what...so discs is not an option.
Then I also stated that the drum ARE big. They are 14"x2" which is quite large. The drums are at least as big as my last 1 ton dually with drums had. So now it comes down to pressures activating the drums.
But thanks for trying.
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Old 09-24-2011, 12:04 AM   #24
sh0rtlife
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well on my lloyd i started with a pair of 7/8 units which is a bit too big as the pedal is a bit touchy in the travel department..now mind you my ratio is my own design and ive got 2 piston rear discs and 4 pot fronts

you said your drums are what 1 1/8th on the rear?...what size up front?

as for size..if your drums are indeed over 1inch in the back and the same up front id probably start with a 7/8s unit and go from there......if i remember right ..someone told me you want around half the size of your total piston stopping power as the size of the MC..so..if you have dual 1 1/8 then youd want 1 1/8th but with drums you dont useualy need as much fluid moved like you do disc's ...well not so much fluid as force change....id bet 7/8s would be close enuf to tell what direction you need to go....with mine i know the 7/8 up front is fine the 7/8 out back is too much

pick them up used offebay ..if they leak a lil so what there good enuf to test with..if it works rebuild it..if it dont then toss it back on ebay lol...i got a full tripple setup clutch and dual brake for under 100$ shipped..one of the 2 brake mc's needed a rebuild

if you can...id stick with "this style" of mc...not brand but the style...especialy since it will be mounted under the truck....the top is harder to remove but the unit is about impossible to have leak on you..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HOWE-...item335d70f7ba

while "this" design is a little more common...you can see why it would leak and be bad "under" any rig...yes this design can have "remote" resevoirs via a nipple a tube and a external cup mounted whereever you like..but imo its just oo many joints and alot of plastic to easily damage
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TILTO...item2a13a83844
more recently ive seen billet aluminum fittings for it and reseviors but still...to me it just seems like a problem waiting to happen...heat, rocks, etc....now if it was all stashed under the dash like mine...id say sure maybe...but again i wanted a setup that if somethings leaking i know its time to rebuild the units
heres my setup under the dash all hidden
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/p...Picture979.jpg

i should also note...there are several imports toyotas nissans and such that use a clutch mc that is the same mounting size and such to fit the standard tilton/howe/afco etc mounts..so you can go out to a wrecker and yard a few in various sizes and then go from there as well...thats how i figured out the right size for my clutch....a clutch MC and a brake MC are functionaly the same...tho a clutch will only have a certain size of fluid it will hold but you knew that lol...but they are ideal for test n tune to dial in closer to the final size...and relitivly cheep in some yards

sh0rtlife screwed with this post 09-24-2011 at 12:13 AM
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Old 09-24-2011, 06:00 AM   #25
Harry Backer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellymac530 View Post
Pretty sure I said in the first post that I was keeping the drums no matter what...so discs is not an option.
Then I also stated that the drum ARE big. They are 14"x2" which is quite large. The drums are at least as big as my last 1 ton dually with drums had. So now it comes down to pressures activating the drums.
But thanks for trying.
I ment use the whole 1 ton drum parts backing plate, drums, hardware, and W/C.and use the same mastercyl. Have you tried the old brakes yet they arn't that bad. Unless you plan on hualing more weight than the old stute is rated for you should be fine. 14x2 arn't that big.
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