ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Road warriors
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-20-2012, 11:41 AM   #886
Worroll
Studly Adventurer
 
Worroll's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Southern CT
Oddometer: 745
If they want to save money they will buy a used bike, not a $7K bike. It's on the lower end of the price point, but not by that much.

You're right that that calculations don't sell bikes. But really, what besides mileage does this bike have to sell it?

Power? no
Handling? no
Off road ability? no
A nifty lunch box were the gas tank should be? Yep!
__________________
2011 Sprint GT, 2000 Moto Guzzi Jackal, 1981 Honda CB750F, 1957 BSA Bantam D3 restoration project, Past bikes -2008 Kawasaki KLR650, 1986 Honda Shadow VT1100C, 1998 Honda Shadow Aero VT1100C3, 2006 Yamaha FZ6, 2006 Kawasaki ZX-14,1980 Yamaha XT500
Worroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 11:56 AM   #887
Grainbelt
marginal adventurer
 
Grainbelt's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: Minnyhappiness
Oddometer: 26,702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Worroll View Post
A nifty lunch box were the gas tank should be? Yep!
From a purely functional perspective, it is the 2001 BMW F650CS, ten years later, but without the belt drive.




Are we more ready for it now, than we were then? Perhaps.
Grainbelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 12:30 PM   #888
Dranrab Luap
E-Tarded
 
Dranrab Luap's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Oddometer: 29,792
This bike is simply not going to sell well. Rule out the cruiser crowd. Rule out the sport bike crowd. Rule out the dirt oriented DS crowd. What are you left with and what choices do those people have at their disposal. The best Honda can hope for is for this bike to survive. It will never thrive.
Dranrab Luap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 01:01 PM   #889
scooterspirit
Ilovekitty
 
scooterspirit's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Location: Alongandlonelyhighway
Oddometer: 711
you guys might be right, but it has been fairly entertaining already.

Rest assured the new owners won't be dropping off a picture, so you guys can call them a girly man or a puss. But if I get one, I'll still drop a picture, I don't mind if you call me those things. Just don't call me late for dinner
scooterspirit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 01:13 PM   #890
bluesman
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Hoegaarden, Belgium
Oddometer: 3,142
I do not think it will flop, I do not think it will fly off sales floor. I think it will sell just same like any other "utility" bike.
This is still lot of money for poor man and too little of bike for young man that started making money.
But as was stated by other people there is people out there that just want to enjoy 2 wheels with no ambitions at all and save money on petrol. Every crowd have their priorities.

I am from crowd that believes, that bikes are fun and should be if possible overpowered or underweight or very tough etc.
I use car for practical duties.
Any 1 liter super-eco-etc. diesel auto bubble on 4 wheels we have easily available here is more practical than 10 of most practical bikes in my opinion. Example? Kia 1.1 diesel does 88 mpg and have 0 congestion charges for most european cities where applicable. And it will outlast bike. Yes, it costs twice the money - with financing they offer it does not matter.
bluesman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 01:27 PM   #891
ObiJohn
Screaming Banshee
 
ObiJohn's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Seattle suburbia
Oddometer: 457
Everyone beats up on Honda for bikes like this (all of the NC700xxx variants), the DN-01, the PC800, even the DCT on the VFR1200. I don't get the hostility.

Give Honda credit for not being a stupid company. Evidently their market research tells them that there is a huge number of potential motorcycle owners that do not fall in the current demographic we see in the Developed World (most current motorcyclists are males for whom performance is the primary attribute... we'll call these 'enthusiasts'). From looking at these bikes, Honda must believe that a huge amount of people want a bike that offers decent performance without being scary, offers reasonably good fuel economy, is easy to ride for inexperienced cyclists, and is comfortable with an upright seating position (we'll call these folks 'practicalitists'). All of these efforts are an attempt for Honda to 'throw something out there' and see what they can sell.

Let's look at the Pacific Coast. The two complaints you hear are, it's not fast enough, and it's ugly. Aren't these an indicator that the 'enthusiasts' didn't like the bike for what it wasn't, and the 'practicalists' didn't find this bike appealing enough to buy it in large numbers.

The same is true of the DN-01. 'Enthusiasts' hate it. Many 'practicalists' really like it, except for the price. At $16k it was priced higher than a small car that got equivalent mileage... so why not go with a car and it's advantages? (I really like my DN-01, that I got for about half the MSRP... and I believe if Honda had put these out for around $8k MSRP originally they'd have sold a crapload of them.)

The NC700X looks to combine many of the benefits of the PC800 (sufficient power, sufficient storage) with those of the DN-01 (easy to ride with the optional DCT and upright position) while not unnecessarily offending the 'enthusiasts' who have great influence over the market (dealers won't order bikes that 'enthusiasts' hate, and if you can't find it in the dealer showroom you can't buy it). Honda has also priced the bike competitively with many entry-level bikes out there including the HD 883 Sportster (a bike that many new motorcyclists buy for it's docility and ease of riding).

I think these will sell well, to mostly newer riders who are looking for a practical bike. It's in the same class as Kawasaki's ER-6N, except it will be easier to ride for a beginner, who will be less likely to get himself into trouble on the Honda. And, putting the 'adventure bike' label on it can only help sales. But time will tell.
ObiJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 01:47 PM   #892
Grainbelt
marginal adventurer
 
Grainbelt's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: Minnyhappiness
Oddometer: 26,702
There isn't any hate. Almost everyone in this thread has been complimentary of the engineering, platform sharing, and potential fuel mileage. I paid my 15 bucks to go to the moto-show this year and was really interested in checking this bike out. I do think they got the pricing right this time. I'm just not sure how people that aren't looking for a conventional motorcycle are going to find out about - I haven't seen much of any marketing from Honda.
Grainbelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 01:53 PM   #893
kraven
Hegelian Scum
 
kraven's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Asheville NC
Oddometer: 4,715
Yeah, I don't see anything like hate either. It's just opinion and maybe some bewilderment.
__________________
So there I was walking into a biker bar in Chattanooga with liberty spikes on my head and a drag queen beside me... - bcurvin
kraven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 01:56 PM   #894
bluesman
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Hoegaarden, Belgium
Oddometer: 3,142
Honda makes quite a few excellent bikes. Strange everyone concentrating on NC.
But market research...trends...
Where are result of all this "market research" etc.?
Spoke to quite a few Honda dealers - no one is happy, sales down, people switch to European bikes slowly, figures also do not make Honda bikes any considerable business for Honda.
Where are great success of PC800, of Transalp 700, VFR1200 etc. etc.?
Where are success likes to Superblackbird, CBR-Fs, VFRs, XRs etc. etc.? I mean X11 - imo nice bike, horrible flop, DN01 flop, Transalp 700 almost flop, PC800 flop. Flop does not mean bike s..s. It means no, no good market research. Not smart.

Smart is CBFs. Smart is PanEuropean. Smart is CBR125 (or even - brilliantly smart). Even Deauville is "smart practical".

And - I never seen new rider, whose first middleweight motorcycle was new and not 2nd hand. I am sure there are such cases, just I was not lucky to see it.

Yep, and VFR1200 and new Crosstourer are 1200cc 175/120 bhp hugely powerful and plenty scary bikes.
bluesman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 02:03 PM   #895
kraven
Hegelian Scum
 
kraven's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Asheville NC
Oddometer: 4,715
I've sold a lot of guys their first bike, and many picked a 600 sportbike or a big cruiser like a VTX1800.

Some guys just go buy a new bike. A lot do, to be sure. At least here in the US.

And they didn't explode or die horrendously either.
__________________
So there I was walking into a biker bar in Chattanooga with liberty spikes on my head and a drag queen beside me... - bcurvin
kraven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 02:13 PM   #896
bluesman
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Hoegaarden, Belgium
Oddometer: 3,142
Kraven, using opportunity - may I ask - what is most popular in US - like financing buy or "walk in with cash"?
Just trying to understand how it is in different parts of the world....
Sorry for a bit offtopic...
bluesman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 02:30 PM   #897
JamesG
Rabid Poster
 
JamesG's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Columbus, GA
Oddometer: 10,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraven View Post
And they didn't explode or die horrendously either.
And a lot of them just sit in their garage getting only a couple thousand miles a year, or their interests change and the bikes wind up on Craigslist. This and Gottahavethelatestgreatest is what made the motorcycle industry tenable here in the US where bikes are toys not practical transportation. Thats why I think this bike is a speculative, somewhat cynical risk on Honda's part that this is changing here. We can't/won't go to 50cc scooters and minibikes enmass, but the market for "practical bikes" may open up here. And then yes, there is the Euro and SA (Brazil), and Asian markets which is just as important as the US if not more.
JamesG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 03:37 PM   #898
BeerIsGood
Guest
 
Oddometer: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Plugs View Post
That's the point. Automatic transmission on a motorcycle isn't something new. Maybe semi-automatic is, but in the field, it just acts the same.

See also: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=371334

Honda did it again. Back in 1981... ;) And again, not a big seller.
I look at the whole automatic thing, the same way that I look at the smart car: It was built because it makes sense. The smart car was built because some people just need 5 wheels to get them there. They realize that all commuting does is put miles on a car. So why buy a SUV at 4 times the price when all you are going to do is wear it down and put miles on it? Is the NC700X a BMW? F**K no! But will you be able to have fun getting to work at 1/2 the price of a GS and twice the gas mileage? YES! This bike was totally built for the commuter and not for the Ian McGregors that travel around the globe. Lets face it, just like the people who buy SUV's to get the groceries, there will always be people who buy GS's to ride to the dinners. People like to show off. There's nothing wrong with that. But for poor people like me... I will stick with the super efficient NC700 auto and use the money saved on beer.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 05:46 PM   #899
turbodieseli4i6
Gnarly Adventurer
 
turbodieseli4i6's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: SW Missouri USA
Oddometer: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by L.B.S. View Post
So why is everybody so aflutter about this bike's "amazing" mpg numbers?

I did a quick count on fuelly and found at least 8 guys with BMW F800ST's with over 60 mpg (US) averages, and a few over that, including this guy http://www.fuelly.com/driver/bicycleboy/f800st who has a best tank recorded of almost 75 mpg (74.9) and an average of 65.6

The best of that 700X linked was 75.2 and its average is 69.3

All this hoopla over a best tank 0.3 difference and an average 3.7 mpg better?

Please note; I am *not* slagging the Honda, and I am not saying the beemer is God's gift, but so much has been said about this bike being specifically designed from the ground up with mpg in mind, excuses being made for it's low hp, low redline, "you have to think of riding it differently", etc., etc., that quite frankly, I'm not understanding why it is being so talked about as something really special.

The reason I like the NC700 over the BMW is.
1- Honda reliability
2- 7K price vs 12K
3- Cost of ownership
4- I have two Honda dealers very close to me, BMW dealers are nonexistent in my area.


I think the NC looks great, but I also think BMW bikes are about the sexiest bike on the planet.
If I do have a problem with the NC I can drop it off at the Honda shop on my way to work.
With the BMW, I'm looking at 200+ miles and will loose a days pay in the process.


The only bike that could change my mind over the NC is the DL650, it's already proven to be very reliable.


The low COG on the NC should work well for my needs.


I know most wont like the NC, but this is the type of bike that I like.


If it only had a belt!
turbodieseli4i6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 10:52 PM   #900
Fishfund
Studly Adventurer
 
Fishfund's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Lansing, MI
Oddometer: 562
Off topic, but I think smart cars are a bad example. The only real advantage they may have over other cars is parking in Europe. They are beat in mpg, price, comfort, reliability and convenience by many other cars. The smart car works in the US only because of marketing and lack of research by car buyers.
Fishfund is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 06:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014