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Old 02-07-2012, 01:20 PM   #31
klaviator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
It already is doing better.
There is a totally different mentality in the U. S. compared to most other countries. Many riders here consider anything under 1000cc as too small and a beginner bike The number of real scooter enthusiasts is pretty small here compared to much of the rest of the world. Although many of the inmates here in battle scooters are interested in the new Kymcos, the average American has probably never heard of Kymco. My local kymco dealer says it's real tough convincing prospective customers that Kymcos are not cheap Chinese junk. Now you have two new Kymcos that are not really inexpensive. $5,000 - $6000 seems like a lot for what many people consider a really small (300cc) machine.

Also many motorcyclists don't look at scooters as being "real bikes". I suspect that many of them would change their minds if they actually rode one of the new Kymco 300s.
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:06 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
Anyone who takes a ride on all three will soon find out they're not comparable
I'll give you points for consistency for claiming vehicals with two wheels and engines that creates power that is within 10% of each other are not comparable. You're consistent but wrong!


Quote:
and most who like the DT will not like the jap scoots, and probably vice versa.
But why not? I own a number of motorcycles and scooters. I like them all. I like the Burgman which I road.. You're saying I wouldn't like the DT because I like the Burgman... That's just silliness.

Quote:
There's another issue with that comparison.. at least here.
The Majesty costs $2k more then the DT, and the Burgman costs $4k or 50%
more.
The Japanese bikes are more here but it's the resale that's important to many. You'll pay more up front but you'll get a much higher % back on the Japanese bike.
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:33 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
There is a totally different mentality in the U. S. compared to most other countries. Many riders here consider anything under 1000cc as too small and a beginner bike The number of real scooter enthusiasts is pretty small here compared to much of the rest of the world.
The scooter usage in other countries are probably influenced more by economics than anything else.

The number one reason for this is likely gas prices. Many parts of the world pay double what American's do for gas. Of course America is mostly rural with wide open spaces and sparsely populated areas which contrast many of the densely populated small developed areas in other countries which dictate the need for small vehicles. America is also very wealthy (at least on paper) compared to other countries which allows us to buy cars and trucks instead of small scooters. Finally, Scooters are much cheaper in countries that don't have to import them.
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:59 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
Anyone who takes a ride on all three will soon find out they're not comparable
and most who like the DT will not like the jap scoots, and probably vice versa.

There's another issue with that comparison.. at least here.
The Majesty costs $2k more then the DT, and the Burgman costs $4k or 50%
more.
I'm not so sure about your first line. While I think I would much prefer the DT over the jap scoots, I'm pretty sure I would like all of them. Of course there is a difference between "liking" and "willing to buy"

As for them not being in the same class, I would tend to agree but the average American consumer would have a much different viewpoint.

I sold Motorcycles & Scooters for a while (KAW&YAMAHA). Here is your average American customer:

They will walk into the showroom with a certain type of bike in mind (cruiser, sport, scooter, etc). Within the type they want they will consider styling, engine size (bigger is better), price (more importantly size of monthly payment) and whether or not they can qualify for a loan. The qualifying for a loan is actually the most important thing


Your average customer will have done little or no research. Most dealers do not allow test rides. Handling is of little or no concern....Why do you think there are so many Harleys here. Many people here live in places where the roads are all straight, flat, and boring. Who needs handling when you live someplace like that?

So, the average customer will look at the DT300 as a smaller and less expensive alternative to the 400s.





Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnoitall View Post
I'll give you points for consistency for claiming vehicals with two wheels and engines that creates power that is within 10% of each other are not comparable. You're consistent but wrong!

Having 2 wheels an engine and comparable horsepower makes them comparable? I owned an 89 Kawasaki EX500. It made comparable power to the Harley big twins of it's day. Are you saying they are comparable?

I also have a Yamaha XT350 and used to have a Suzuki DR250. Both Dual sports, pretty close in Horsepower and weight, yet they felt very different.


But why not? I own a number of motorcycles and scooters. I like them all. I like the Burgman which I road.. You're saying I wouldn't like the DT because I like the Burgman... That's just silliness.

I feel the same way

The Japanese bikes are more here but it's the resale that's important to many. You'll pay more up front but you'll get a much higher % back on the Japanese bike.

Resale? Unlike you, most customers don't think past "can I make the payment"


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Old 02-08-2012, 12:40 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
Also many motorcyclists don't look at scooters as being "real bikes". I suspect that many of them would change their minds if they actually rode one of the new Kymco 300s.
So true. Kind of the way I think about weekend warrior riders being "real motorcyclists". My ridding buddy nearly shed tears of frustration when I told him my new bike was a scooter (Kymco DT, I own a few bikes, dirt/dualsport, and have been riding for 25 years) Actually, first he laughed, then he cried. Then, we went on a multi-day ride. Somewhere between me keeping up with him all day, him working hard to hang with me in the corners, 70mpg, the fact that I didn't need saddle bags to keep my stuff dry, and the time I offered (reluctantly) to trade off and ride his bike, so he could escape the weather, it dawned on him as to why I would pick a scooter. He thinks it a blast now, and his wife likes the back of my DT better too. Of course he's still not running to his local scooter shop, but I think that has more to do with wanting to look cool. Kind of sad that people buy what they think will look cool vs what they really like. The BMW C600 may be enough to tip him... It may be enough to tip me again. But then BMW=$$

As for resale, I must admit that I don't buy bikes with a built in escape plan in mind, but I may be in the minority on that.

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Old 02-08-2012, 02:10 PM   #36
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The DT is a great scooter but I do agree that in the USA the resale value will be poor. Not because the scooter is poor but because riders in the states do not know the brand very well and scooters are scorned for their lack of coolness factor ( by those who have never driven one ). I hope it does well here though.
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:25 PM   #37
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The DT is a great scooter but I do agree that in the USA the resale value will be poor. Not because the scooter is poor but because riders in the states do not know the brand very well and scooters are scorned for their lack of coolness factor ( by those who have never driven one ). I hope it does well here though.
Yep. I fell completely in to what you just described.
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:36 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Warney View Post
Breeze Cycles in Omaha has one new Downtown 300i for $4500 OTD. Gene will hook you up.
If there's no catches that's a GREAT price on a new Downtown 300i.
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:46 PM   #39
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From What I have read about the Kymco it will out perform the majesty in almost every way...
I'm from Missouri on that statement. The Majesty is no slouch on ANY front or design consideration. I'd be interested in who your sources or references are to support that conclusion.

And... no... I don't own a Majesty... I'm a Burgman 400 rider... but I've ridden with guys on Majesty's and those are very, very nice scooters from any viewpoint that I can conjure up.

And that is not meant to bee anything inherently anti-kymco--- but I'd be surprised if the 100 cc (nominal) difference did NOT make a difference in power, acceleration, and top speed.
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:20 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by MQracing View Post
I'd be interested in who your sources or references are to support that conclusion.
Can't say I've ridden the Majesty, so I don't really know how they compare. But, I can corner hard enough to have added scrapes to my pipe and drag the kick stand on the other side. I didn't expect the ability to corner so hard and have been surprised, so have a half dozen other bikes who've tried to hang with me through the curves. Granted, none were serious sport bikes the closest was a Bandit 1100. He couldn't hang going in and through, but coming out...Yeah he pretty much caught up quickly until the next turn, but he couldn't overtake until we got towards the bottom of the mountain and on a straight away. Here is a review that seems to back me up a little. And I've read tons of reviews on all kinds of scoots before buying, most comment on the handling/performance of the 300i and many preferred it over the Xciting 500. http://www.soundrider.com/archive/bi...wntown300i.htm

I believe the HP of the Majesty is 33.5 vs 29.5 for DT, Weight is 467, vs 367 for the DT. So, only 4hp for an extra hundred pounds... It might be safe to assume the DT performs better.

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Old 02-09-2012, 09:10 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
Having 2 wheels an engine and comparable horsepower makes them comparable?
No, Having two wheels and engine and comparable horsepower in a scooter design makes them comparable.

Quote:
I owned an 89 Kawasaki EX500. It made comparable power to the Harley big twins of it's day. Are you saying they are comparable?
Lol! I did'nt make a comparison between a sport bike and a cruiser. I made a comparison between a scooter and a scooter. Two scooters, similar size, similar power, similar design. A natural comparison. I can't believe I'm even having this conversation.

Quote:
I also have a Yamaha XT350 and used to have a Suzuki DR250. Both Dual sports, pretty close in Horsepower and weight, yet they felt very different..
That fact that they feel different does not mean they are not comparable. It's the comparison part that distinguishes the differences. You compare to decide what you prefer.







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Old 02-09-2012, 09:15 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
Resale? Unlike you, most customers don't think past "can I make the payment"
Perhaps that's why, at any given time,I have 4 or 5 nice bikes in my garage. I'm not wealthy but I'm not dumb either.
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:52 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by MQracing View Post
I'm from Missouri on that statement. The Majesty is no slouch on ANY front or design consideration. I'd be interested in who your sources or references are to support that conclusion.
From what I've read on majestyusa and elsewhere, the pre-redesign majesty
400 took 14 seconds to reach 62mph, the stock DT will do it in 11 seconds.

It doesn't take a lot of effort to bring the Majesty's 14sec time to around 11
sec, but even less "effort" will get you in the 8,5-9 second range on the
Downtown, if you're into that.

Most older Majesty 400 owners replaced the CVT with aftermarket ones,
and all you need to do on the DT is drop the stock rollers and replace them
with 1,5gr lighter Dr Pulley sliders.

The Majesty however IS faster (top speed).

The newer/current Majesty 400 has that "issue" fixed, 11secs to 62mph
and a lot smoother takeoff.
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Old 02-09-2012, 06:43 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Cortez View Post

The Majesty however IS faster (top speed).

The newer/current Majesty 400 has that "issue" fixed, 11secs to 62mph
and a lot smoother takeoff.

Yes... I think we should compare "new against new" unless we're talking about used scooters.

I have zero against Kymco --- maybee it was a bit of the rah-rah that I was reacting too...

I'm happy with my Burgman 400. Also fond of my Daytona 955i for when i want to scare myself
silly. Love the torque monster response of the Buell. Dig the light nimble handling of my V65SP guzzi.
And I'm hoping that once I have the restoration done on my SHL M11 that it will be a nice put-put bike
for two lane slow country roads.

I love all motorcycles and all scooters but I try like the devil to avoid being rah-rah about any one of them.
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Old 02-09-2012, 06:48 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by go.duesouth View Post
Can't say I've ridden the Majesty, so I don't really know how they compare. But, I can corner hard enough to have added scrapes to my pipe and drag the kick stand on the other side. I didn't expect the ability to corner so hard and have been surprised, so have a half dozen other bikes who've tried to hang with me through the curves. Granted, none were serious sport bikes the closest was a Bandit 1100. He couldn't hang going in and through, but coming out...
At the assured risk of insulting you--- the above text strikes me as just simple juvenile inspired prose.

Who cares if you drag your pipes--- does that make you any better of a rider? Who cares if your the master of
turns--- that you could teach Rossi a thing or two about cornering--- still who cares?

It's like George Harrison said, "it's all up to what you value".

Pure chest thumping isn't something I value much. I'd rather go out and ride my own ride--- enjoy the roads I'm on--- enjoy the sights I see and the people I meet.
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