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Old 10-06-2011, 12:52 AM   #31
GoneAgain
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i dont want to start arguements, or piss anyone off....

but


count me out if i have to join a club and sign an indemnity form to go riding with youse.....


just sayin...


cheers!



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Old 10-06-2011, 02:14 AM   #32
XRman OP
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OK you are out then

GA I am not upset about you not wanting to join a club and sign a form. I am sure there are plenty of people who think the same. Mostly they haven't thought it through, or have no assets to lose.

For me I am not taking the risk of organizing any event, however informal, while we still have our rediculous laws on liabilty. Without insurance, going to court to defend myself from a legal action, no matter how spurious, is an expense I want covered by insurance. Been there, done that. Time away from work and mental strain are not covered though!

I have been involved in running MA events and DSMRA events for years. DSMRA give great value for $ insurance cover for officials.

It is really only takes a few months for a injured rider's family to realize the enormity of the cost and care burden before they consider legal action with a sue and screw "no fee" lawyer group. The money has to come form somewhere.
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Old 10-06-2011, 03:31 AM   #33
GagsD2
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Eh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by XRman View Post
GA I am not upset about you not wanting to join a club and sign a form. I am sure there are plenty of people who think the same. Mostly they haven't thought it through, or have no assets to lose.

For me I am not taking the risk of organizing any event, however informal, while we still have our rediculous laws on liabilty. Without insurance, going to court to defend myself from a legal action, no matter how spurious, is an expense I want covered by insurance. Been there, done that. Time away from work and mental strain are not covered though!

I have been involved in running MA events and DSMRA events for years. DSMRA give great value for $ insurance cover for officials.

It is really only takes a few months for a injured rider's family to realize the enormity of the cost and care burden before they consider legal action with a sue and screw "no fee" lawyer group. The money has to come form somewhere.
It is sad world in which we live where people cannot take responsibilities for their own actions. I have no qualms in paying a small price for association with an organisation that provides an individual some form of protection.

I don't have much (other than lots of debt to leave my kids ) but I would hate to be fighting to keep it because some individual, or their parasitic insurance company, is tryng to get blood from my stones.

I would like to think we could all just go for a ride together and if someone got hurt, that's part of life. Unfortunately, when that person, who you probably wouldn't know normally, suddenly works out that their income is affected, it suddenly becomes someone elses fault.

I don't personally know XR but I do know he probably has enought to lose in the above circumstances.

My 0.02c worth
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Old 10-06-2011, 04:10 AM   #34
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Flogging dead horse

Thanks for your support gagsD2. I have worked really hard for 35 years to get near to retiring and only once been in the Courts witnessing the BSL's squeezing money out of insurance companies. It is a game to them. Fill out the forms & sue anyone who was "there" that they can. If they get a hit at a 10% rate it is a good income.

I have been down this road before with people who wanted us to run " black" enduro events to avoid paying for a MA licence. They are very keen to come on the day of the event, pay a minimal entry fee, ride , and then go home. I can understand that, but it leaves those who organize the cheap events wide open legally if someone gets hurt.

Unfortunately the cost of one-day MA racing licences became so high that the average Jo was not prepared to pay the $80 entry fee for our grass track and enduro events. We worked hard and made a loss at the end of the year. How many events have we run in the past two years; zero.

You have to admire those blood sucking lawyers in the way we all accept that there is nothing we can do about it. We need political will to change the Law, but most of our politician are lawyers, so that is not likley to happen.

The other thing that amazes me is that blokes on bikes worth $13,000 complain about an $80 fee to enter and event that will entertain them for 4-5 hours. I guess if the latest whizz bang machine is on finance, they can't find another $80!

I hope you enjoy the Pooncarrie ride.
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Old 10-06-2011, 06:35 AM   #35
GoneAgain
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XR, i'm glad your not upset about me not wanting to join a club or sign a form.... because its not my intention to upset anyone.... i was attracted to this thread on "Advrider.com" because it was titled 'green triangle region riders' and thats where i live... if it was titled ' DSMRA riders of sa/vic' or something such, i would have maybe read it, who knows, but probaly not gotten involved...

I'm not going to touch your statements about me (well, people who think the same as me, which therefore includes me) not 'thinking', or that i 'have no assets to loose'... because you dont know me or my (financial, i.e asset) situation... nuff said..

XR, i'm sorry to hear you've seen court time on a BSL issue, and yes i agree its shit that that seems to be the way we have been heading in oz lately (although there seems to be a few slightly encouraging signs that we are starting to realise this is a shit path to take and starting to put the brakes on it a bit...) not really gonna jump on the legalities of 'whos responsible' bandwagon as there are already a couple of threads in the oz forum that are doing it well...

I guess for me, perhaps what it really boils down to is perhaps this thread has been mis-titled as it is now starting to sound like a DSMRA recruitment drive.... personally, i have been involved for a few years in the SA ADVriders thread, including a stack of rides with 'mates' whom i've only met thru this forum, but whom i clasify now as mates, and would be surprised if they didnt classify me as a 'mate' too... (even though i've since moved down here and so dont really see those guys anymore...although i will one day )

btw, i'd never heard of DSMRA until this thread... so i have no agenda against them.... and am possibly happy to join for some other reason than...'you cant ride with other ADV members down here unless you join this other unaffiliated group..'

i'll go riding wheather i'm a paid up member of DSRMA or not... and if you end up along side me on a trail, sweet, if you dont, sweet too...

cheers,
GA.




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Old 10-06-2011, 01:13 PM   #36
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To insure or not: that is the?

To be honest my reason for starting this thread was to find local/ regional people to ride with on multi day rides. Also to find others who can show me around where they ride. Safety in numbers , broader experience etc.

I am planning to ride the APC rally next year and I need to get some practice in.

I have been a DSMRA member ( a National trail riding organization with about 3,000 memebers spread over OZ) for a few years now. It is cheap to join and offers cheap insurance cover for organizers ( ride leader/ tail rider etc.) and has the established structure so little groups don't have to go through all that annual reports to the Associations Dept. in each State crap. Wherever you are in the Country there could be a member to show you around the trails. End of Promotion.

I can see the advantage of tacking a adventure bike wing onto the exisiting trail riding group that exists in SW Victoria. The ride info emails would give a ride grading from easy ride ( bring your BM1200) to hard ( enduro bikes + experienced rider+ prayer).

I like going riding informally with my mates too. I know that they ride well and don't take risks or ride above their limits. I have been caught out with unknown riders joining us only to ruin the day when they tried to impress us on how well they rode (into a big gum tree). Hours of retrieval later and months in hospital; it was a harrowing experience. No legal repercussisons that time, thank God. TAC covered his expenses and he recovered 90%. He accepted that it was his fault entirely. It could have turned out differently today with BSLs everywhere.

When you have a larger group of unknown riders gathering to ride together, then it makes sense to get insurance to cover the arse of the organizer/ helpers for that day. If that is a recruitment drive for DSMRA, then I guess I owe you all an apology for luring you into reading this thread.
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Old 10-06-2011, 03:57 PM   #37
jrr
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SE SA riders

Now might be time for a subtle redirection back to the topic!

I can understand XRman's concerns about unknown riders joining him for a spin in the scrub (or wherever), particularly given past experiences.

And I agree with GA's attitude - we should be able to look after ourselves and it should be a matter of taking responsibilty for yourself.

I have probably been a bit wary about participating in this thread in case I get bailed up by a peanut who does come for a ride and does end up riding in to a tree or ruining the day. A long bow maybe ... !

So, back to the topic - who is from SE SA or WDV?

The compromise may be to meet at somewhere such as Bailey's (or Bishop's, depending on your pet name!) Rocks. Those who wish to join XRman in a trip he leads/organises get to buy a certificate of participation, and anyone who's happy to go elsewhere on good will may.
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Old 10-06-2011, 04:52 PM   #38
GoneAgain
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yeah look, rides are rides, and if someone whats to call a ride and formalise it some way thats their perogative... just like someone else will do it some other way... all good..

(hell, i cant go riding at the moment anyway )

so yeah, back to the topic 'green triangle region riders'...

i'm SE SA, Millicent/beachport area...

i guess as a 'new' regional group to adv, we have a few things to discus...

1) where are the good bakeries

2) best place to get tyres

i'm sure there are others...but i cant stop thinkin of bakeries now....

they're a great reason for a ride too... perhaps we could create a GTB Trail (Green triangle bakery trail) to compliment the SWAT (or add some bakeries to the SWAT )

anyway, millicent wont be on the list... no good bakeries there.... Beachport deli makes pies etc... bit too thick in the crust, but about the only option in town for a bite other than pub food..

Anyone know any good bakeries...?




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Old 10-06-2011, 05:12 PM   #39
jrr
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Bakeries aren't really my forte. Penola is pretty good, and DiVine cafe builds some excellent smoked salmon eggs (stop bitching. Just try them).

Vanilla slice from the Edenhope bakery, which occasionally pops up at the Coonawarra Store, is sensational so the rest of their offering may be up to speed.

Pizzas, on the other hand;
- Dergholm pub on a sunday avo is a great spot. They subscribe to the 'piled higher & deeper' method of pizza making, so you can pretty much cover the weekly ration in one sitting.
- Vic Street Pizza in Robe are a personal favourite. Nearer the gourmet end, but still more than enough goodies on top.
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Old 10-06-2011, 07:18 PM   #40
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Good idea Jrr

I think we should pick a weekend and all ride to Bailey's rocks and camp out. Get to know each other, and see if this GT group idea has wings. Ideas for a date anyone???

I am all for a few beers and pizza at the Dergholm pub. I will not be leading any rides after that!

BTW Jrr DSMRA does not sell day memberships. (MA does and it was $45 per day last time I bought one). It is a flat fee for the year ( $50) I recall for DSMRA participation. (cheap)
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:50 PM   #41
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Let's just do it

I'm all for just going for a ride too....most of my mates from the road riding/touring days are too old and broken to even have a bike any more so looking for people to ride with. I am still into touring, albeit now including dirt. Happy to meet up at a pub, bakery, coffee shop, whatever.....if that involves an overnighter then probably even better.

I ride out of the Heywood area but shifts permitting, will travel almost anywhere.

Looking forward to meeting some "locals"

Gags:
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Old 10-07-2011, 12:32 AM   #42
XRman OP
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November 19/20th

What about 19th 20th November? Baileys Rocks reserve. Basic facilities ( long drops) Be self sufficient

Arrive some time saturday, camp overnight, Dergholm Pub for dinner if you want to, check out the area Sunday a.m. and go home p.m.
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:29 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XRman View Post
What about 19th 20th November? Baileys Rocks reserve. Basic facilities ( long drops) Be self sufficient

Arrive some time saturday, camp overnight, Dergholm Pub for dinner if you want to, check out the area Sunday a.m. and go home p.m.
Sounds like a good idea, but those dates conflick with my shift roster. 12th 13th November is good for me but may not be accpectable for other riders in this forum.
I aplogoise in advance if my internet etiquette is raw, but I'm new to this forum stuff & are still learning the trade. I too would like to meet new riders in the area to share new experience's with, just like today after riding from Wallacadale to Hallsgap and then being cought in a thunderstorm near Mt Nepean, now thats something to share with follow riders.
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:15 AM   #44
jrr
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Originally Posted by Slowpoak View Post
I aplogoise in advance if my internet etiquette is raw, but I'm new to this forum stuff ...

You'll be right. Just remember - sarcasm and irony don't tend to work in the written word, and give someone the benefit of the doubt (if their comment seems a bit inflamatory, let it fly). It's easy to be misinterpreted!

Having said that, you can keep the thunderstorm!


Dates which work for me: Nov 6, 19/20, and maybe 26/27 if present plans fall through.
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Old 10-07-2011, 03:06 AM   #45
GagsD2
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Ahhh dates......the fun bit!!

5/6 Nov works for me..I am off 12/13 Nov but had plans to go to Fish-Holes rally at Portland (old habits and catch up with old friends)....N/S on 19 Nov and don't finish till 0800 in Portland........just my availability, so pls don't let that sway things.........I could be in baileys area by about 1000 on 20 Nov

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