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Old 11-01-2011, 10:40 PM   #76
moto.irbit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroEngineer View Post
http://www.kbmtc.ru/ ?

If they could make something like that I know a lot of people on this site and sovietsteeds who would be interested in them... I don't think anyone is against Russian made products, they just don't know about them.
Yes KBMTS. See http://www.kbmtc.ru/Elektro.htm This is gearcasing made to fit electrostarter from VAZ 1111 to Ural motorcycle M-67, M-68. MVP was manufacturer of BSU World Champion sidecar frames and MVP racing motors. Now he mostly makes snowmobile MVP 500. Has own aluminum foundery and many automatic machines. I translate some emails for both and know that Europeans and Americans want Russian made parts for nothing. I dont think there would be enough people to pay proper money to make this special gearbox. KBMTS made special parts before for American dealers who always say they want hundreds but only ever order tens and complain about prices.
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:50 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by moto.irbit View Post
Yes KBMTS. See http://www.kbmtc.ru/Elektro.htm This is gearcasing made to fit electrostarter from VAZ 1111 to Ural motorcycle M-67, M-68. MVP was manufacturer of BSU World Champion sidecar frames and MVP racing motors. Now he mostly makes snowmobile MVP 500. Has own aluminum foundery and many automatic machines. I translate some emails for both and know that Europeans and Americans want Russian made parts for nothing. I dont think there would be enough people to pay proper money to make this special gearbox. KBMTS made special parts before for American dealers who always say they want hundreds but only ever order tens and complain about prices.
Howdy moto.irbit,

You said you knew a shop that "might" be able to make a transfer case to lower the gearing in a Ural, "I" have been looking for such an item for YEARS. Myself and others have posted that we would be interested in knowing what the price for such an item would be. "I" and others realize that this would be a short production run, we know the cost would be higher for a short production run then if 10,000 were made. We are asking HOW MUCH WOULD THIS COST?

You throw out the notion that it can be done, we ask how much and now you come back with we expect parts to be made for nothing, I call BULLSHIT. Some of us are SERIOUS about this, are you?
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:02 PM   #78
moto.irbit
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Originally Posted by windmill View Post
I don't know if it is correct or not, but it has been claimed that the prototype IMZ rigs with the dual range transmissions were built using BMW R75 transmissions from the Eisenbach BMW plant where they built the AWO 700 after the war. http://www.wehrmachtsgespann.de/emw-2.htm
Is not true. TMZ-53 used BMW design but it was built in 1943 before US Army captured Eisennach. IMZ i7D was built in 1951 and used standard two shaft gearbox not three shaft R75 type. Reduction on i7D was on top of gearcase.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:34 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Mr. Cob View Post
Howdy moto.irbit,

You said you knew a shop that "might" be able to make a transfer case to lower the gearing in a Ural, "I" have been looking for such an item for YEARS. Myself and others have posted that we would be interested in knowing what the price for such an item would be. "I" and others realize that this would be a short production run, we know the cost would be higher for a short production run then if 10,000 were made. We are asking HOW MUCH WOULD THIS COST?

You throw out the notion that it can be done, we ask how much and now you come back with we expect parts to be made for nothing, I call BULLSHIT. Some of us are SERIOUS about this, are you?
I earn about 300.000 ruble a year, I live comfortably in Irbit, feed my family. buy beer and spend money on wife and children. My bike cost 5.000 ruble. I do not have the money to fund this idea. You ask how much this would cost? but do not say how many you will buy. You buy one, it will be very expensive. You buy ten - cheaper. You buy 100 - much cheaper.

What are technical requirements? You intend to use existing gears in new casing? What is reduction wanted? You want five gears? You want reverse? Five gears means longer casing, perhaps 25mm. You want different gearbox ratios? Everyone wants the same thing? Who pays development? You pay deposit? Who pays shipping? Will IMZ permit shipping? Who is the person the contract will be made with?

Only once have I seen a foreign man pay to develop things in Irbit before things are made. Will he fund this? I do not know. I have not seen him since before the bike show. You find list of people who will spend $5.000 and we will see. Find another list of people who will spend $3.000 and we will see. But make it so that all agree on the one technical specification.
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Old 11-02-2011, 12:03 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moto.irbit View Post
I earn about 300.000 ruble a year, I live comfortably in Irbit, feed my family. buy beer and spend money on wife and children. My bike cost 5.000 ruble. I do not have the money to fund this idea. You ask how much this would cost? but do not say how many you will buy. You buy one, it will be very expensive. You buy ten - cheaper. You buy 100 - much cheaper.

What are technical requirements? You intend to use existing gears in new casing? What is reduction wanted? You want five gears? You want reverse? Five gears means longer casing, perhaps 25mm. You want different gearbox ratios? Everyone wants the same thing? Who pays development? You pay deposit? Who pays shipping? Will IMZ permit shipping? Who is the person the contract will be made with?

Only once have I seen a foreign man pay to develop things in Irbit before things are made. Will he fund this? I do not know. I have not seen him since before the bike show. You find list of people who will spend $5.000 and we will see. Find another list of people who will spend $3.000 and we will see. But make it so that all agree on the one technical specification.
Howdy moto.irbit,

For the last 6 years that I have been working WITH not for the folks who run IMWA, I have lobbied HARD for a five speed gear box, with a first gear that is at least 25% "I" would much prefer a 50% reduction of the first gear now in the transmission, leave the other four gears alone they work just fine.

Back when I was working for a living I was a Journeyman Machinist, I am well aware of setup costs for any new project especially when it concerns new casting and gears. That said, this has all been done 70 years ago, the detail drawings must still exist somewhere, the actual parts exist somewhere. Using todays CNC equipment and modern manufacturing techniques I don't see why it should be that expensive to use and upgrade the old drawings, use the old style parts as patterns, use modern high strength materials and in doing so be able to produce this product at a reasonable price.

What is a reasonable price, I don't know but I am willing to at least participate in a discussion with those who would be doing the work. There IS a market for such a devise, all one has to do is read the many posting on the many web sites to see that if such a product were offered at a reasonable price there are those myself included who would buy it. Like I said its not like the wheel needs to be reinvented, this has already been done, it just needs to be up graded and manufactured, it will SELL. If such a product were made available for a reasonable price I honestly don't think you would have any problem selling at least 100 of them, once those 100 units are in the field and good reports come in I dare say there would be orders for MANY more.

MAKE such an item, if it proves to be something worth while work with IMWA to offer it as an OPTION that would increase sales even further. I have been testing factory experimental parts for IMWA for the last five years, input from my testing has resulted in many of the improvements to the newer rigs. Build and supply me with a two speed transfer case or a five speed transmission with a LOWER first gear, let me BEAT THE HELL out of it and prove its worth and I can guarantee you sales. The customers are waiting, the ball is in the court of those who can and would build the product.
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Mr. Cob screwed with this post 11-02-2011 at 12:24 AM
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Old 11-02-2011, 07:49 AM   #81
windmill
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Originally Posted by moto.irbit View Post
Is not true. TMZ-53 used BMW design but it was built in 1943 before US Army captured Eisennach. IMZ i7D was built in 1951 and used standard two shaft gearbox not three shaft R75 type. Reduction on i7D was on top of gearcase.
Thank you for the information, very little is available on Soviet era bikes, and almost none in English.

There is a real problem here in that the average consumer mind set is bitch about price up front, then bitch about quality after.
This thread alone shows how clueless some are about the value of, and the costs involved in manufacturing real goods regardless of quality or quantity. They confuse price with value.

Another thing is that for some of us $3 k for a new transmission would be a major purchase, and would require significant time and planning to acquire.
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:03 PM   #82
moto.irbit
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Originally Posted by Mr. Cob View Post
Howdy moto.irbit,

For the last 6 years that I have been working WITH not for the folks who run IMWA, I have lobbied HARD for a five speed gear box, with a first gear that is at least 25% "I" would much prefer a 50% reduction of the first gear now in the transmission, leave the other four gears alone they work just fine.

Back when I was working for a living I was a Journeyman Machinist, I am well aware of setup costs for any new project especially when it concerns new casting and gears. That said, this has all been done 70 years ago, the detail drawings must still exist somewhere, the actual parts exist somewhere. Using todays CNC equipment and modern manufacturing techniques I don't see why it should be that expensive to use and upgrade the old drawings, use the old style parts as patterns, use modern high strength materials and in doing so be able to produce this product at a reasonable price.

What is a reasonable price, I don't know but I am willing to at least participate in a discussion with those who would be doing the work. There IS a market for such a devise, all one has to do is read the many posting on the many web sites to see that if such a product were offered at a reasonable price there are those myself included who would buy it. Like I said its not like the wheel needs to be reinvented, this has already been done, it just needs to be up graded and manufactured, it will SELL. If such a product were made available for a reasonable price I honestly don't think you would have any problem selling at least 100 of them, once those 100 units are in the field and good reports come in I dare say there would be orders for MANY more.

MAKE such an item, if it proves to be something worth while work with IMWA to offer it as an OPTION that would increase sales even further. I have been testing factory experimental parts for IMWA for the last five years, input from my testing has resulted in many of the improvements to the newer rigs. Build and supply me with a two speed transfer case or a five speed transmission with a LOWER first gear, let me BEAT THE HELL out of it and prove its worth and I can guarantee you sales. The customers are waiting, the ball is in the court of those who can and would build the product.
Mr Cob, you are a man talking BS! Give you product for nothing and you will guarantee sales. Where your MONEY? I thought not! You put money up front - you have credibility! No money - you talk a lot! I read your great exploits with 2WD, any 16 year boy in Irbit can beat you with normal Ural. Go away and when you offer money, I talk to you. Big words, no money is a little man. You answer not one question I ask. You talk big but answer nothing.
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:14 PM   #83
Mr. Cob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moto.irbit View Post
Mr Cob, you are a man talking BS! Give you product for nothing and you will guarantee sales. Where your MONEY? I thought not! You put money up front - you have credibility! No money - you talk a lot! I read your great exploits with 2WD, any 16 year boy in Irbit can beat you with normal Ural. Go away and when you offer money, I talk to you. Big words, no money is a little man. You answer not one question I ask. You talk big but answer nothing.
Howdy moto.irbit,

Just what I figured, some one calls you on your bullshit and you weasel out. I said I would willing pay a REASONABLE price for a proven product, your the one who said it could be made. You have resorted to the usual argument of someone who can't back up what they say by attacking the messenger, thats cool, I don't have anything to prove, I am enjoying my life and my Ural. When you offer a product, you "might" be worth talking to as it is your just talking bullshit.
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:16 PM   #84
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:18 PM   #85
Mr. Cob
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Howdy AeroEngineer,

Hey pass the salt my popcorn needs some.
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:19 PM   #86
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An awesome Thread for going off at a tangent,flaming and keyboard fighting.

Heh heh heh...wonder if 'moto.irbit' and 'Threewheelbonnie' are related...or one and the same ?
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:47 PM   #87
Mr. Cob
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Originally Posted by Tarka View Post


An awesome Thread for going off at a tangent,flaming and keyboard fighting.

Heh heh heh...wonder if 'moto.irbit' and 'Threewheelbonnie' are related...or one and the same ?
Howdy Tarka,

Well its cold outside and raining, in short I am phucking BORED that being the case I might as well jerk on the chains of those who seem to know everything there is to know about Urals and how bad of a product they are. Whenever I read the posts of folks who rant on how bad Urals are I can't help but wonder if they have ever had any real experience with one made since 2005 or even an older one that is owned and operated by a competent Ural pilot. How is "Dee" these days, I take it you are keeping the conveyance in top form in case some Yank needs a lift.
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:59 PM   #88
Tarka
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Originally Posted by Mr. Cob View Post
Howdy Tarka,

Well its cold outside and raining, in short I am phucking BORED that being the case I might as well jerk on the chains of those who seem to know everything there is to know about Urals and how bad of a product they are. Whenever I read the posts of folks who rant on how bad Urals are I can't help but wonder if they have ever had any real experience with one made since 2005 or even an older one that is owned and operated by a competent Ural pilot. How is "Dee" these days, I take it you are keeping the conveyance in top form in case some Yank needs a lift.
Amen to those sentiments,M`lud...I`ll raise a glass of the finest Belgian raspberry beer to you for that.

Aye,good old Dee is all shiny and in fine fettle,Sir.
She`s languishing in the garage after a year of shows,rallies and two Continental trips this year.
Skaya is outside braving the currently cold,wet and miserable November weather we`re having at present....doing the daily commute and social riding.

Hmm...it`s a wonder I manage to do anything on them isn`t it?
After all,one is yr 2000 and the other 2004.
So they`re both 'old,slow,unreliable,ancient,outdated fossils' aren`t they?

The armchair 'experts' should give you a Winter`s worth of amusement.
And they seem to have started earlier than normal this year.
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:24 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Tarka View Post
Amen to those sentiments,M`lud...I`ll raise a glass of the finest Belgian raspberry beer to you for that.

Aye,good old Dee is all shiny and in fine fettle,Sir.
She`s languishing in the garage after a year of shows,rallies and two Continental trips this year.
Skaya is outside braving the currently cold,wet and miserable November weather we`re having at present....doing the daily commute and social riding.

Hmm...it`s a wonder I manage to do anything on them isn`t it?
After all,one is yr 2000 and the other 2004.
So they`re both 'old,slow,unreliable,ancient,outdated fossils' aren`t they?

The armchair 'experts' should give you a Winter`s worth of amusement.
And they seem to have started earlier than normal this year.
Howdy Steve,

Well yesterday, ( Nov. 1st. ) the sun was shining here in the Great Nor-Wet, at this time of year such an occasion is NOT to be wasted. So I braved a break-down in the wilds of the Cascade Mountain range far beyond cell phone range and out of sight of a starbucks coffee shop to venture above the clouds in search of SNOW. My untrustworthy Ural first had to climb through the layer of clouds and mist about 1,200 feet below where this photo was taken.


Before arriving at the top of the ridge and finding evidence of the first snow at this altitude of around 4,200 feet.


I share your wonderment at how these machines of such dubious workmanship and refinement can possibly cross continents, climb mountains and manage to bring their riders back home; it truly is mind boggling when one considers how crudely they are supposedly made and how often they are slandered by those who know so much better then those who ride them, eh what.
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:48 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by roscoau View Post
Hmm, you want to be offered a product to test and you would pay a REASONABLE price.

MI says it can be done if people are willing to pay but wants to know who can/will gamble on the development costs.

Sounds reasonable to me - SOMEONE has to make a big gamble and investment before you get to PERHAPS pay a REASONABLE price. Personally, I reckon it would be financial suicide for anyone who took it on.

Go polish your predator!
Howdy roscoau,

I simply offered my services to test this proposed product much as I have been for last 5+ years testing things that have and will make their way into Ural's production line. As to polishing the Predator, surly Sir you jest.
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