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Old 10-18-2011, 06:05 AM   #31
norton73
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Pics from Barber Vintage Fest 2011









More pics (but not much more trials) here; Barber 2011
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:58 PM   #32
darmst6829
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Originally Posted by lamotovita View Post
Keep em coming.
I got the Bultaco to ride AHRMA events. I've given up on them though, so now i occasionally ride it in our club events. It's a blast and really makes me appreciate my modern bike.
I wish there was a Vintage trials club on the west coast (USA).

OK, I will ask. Why have you given up on AHRMA events?

Dave
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:23 PM   #33
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OK, I will ask. Why have you given up on AHRMA events?
Dave
Well on a local level the events are lame, sloppily run and poorly laid out. The last event I rode (sept. 2011) featured 3 loops of 7 sections for a total of 21 rides. The whole event took about an hour and a half. The distance between the first and last sections was about 300 yards, despite the fact they had hundreds of acres at their disposal. The largest obstacle(in the expert line) was a railroad tie laying on the ground. Sections were laid out in the parking area where vehicles were driving, and parking, in the staging areas for the sections.
I have ridden this event for the past 3 years and it's gotten more lame each year. Well before the event this year I talked to the Trial marshal and offered him the assistance of both myself and our local Trials club of about 50 members, to try and make it a better event this year, he opted not to take advantage of that offer.

On a national level it's clear that AHRMA doesn't care about Trials or want to develope it further. They don't publish Trials results on their website, they refuse to make a class for 80s vintage twinshocks, despite the fact that they did for MX, and those are some of their fullest, most competitive, classes.
Also they seem to be very lax, or selective, in enforcing their own rules. Walk through the pits and see how many bikes (both Trials and MX) you can spot that obviously exceed the 4" rear travel rule. A guy who builds his bike according to the rules is handicapping himself.

Are you sorry you asked now?

The good thing (I think) is that I've discovered that I dig riding vintage trials bikes! I was shopping for an MX bike to go with it. I just wish there was a better venue available to me for it.
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lamotovita screwed with this post 10-18-2011 at 11:34 PM
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Old 10-19-2011, 03:41 PM   #34
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Well now that just flat sucks.

You know you are always welcome to come on down to New Mexico and ride with us!
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Old 10-19-2011, 06:30 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by lamotovita View Post
On a national level it's clear that AHRMA doesn't care about Trials or want to develope it further. They don't publish Trials results on their website, they refuse to make a class for 80s vintage twinshocks, despite the fact that they did for MX, and those are some of their fullest, most competitive, classes.
Sadly, I've had similar feedback from those looking to ride and even organize vintage trials events in the northeast, where they seem to have no trials presence at all, and other organizations have had to pick up the slack. For areas where their interest and focus is they are very good, but make no mistake...the "R" in AHRMA stands for racing!
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:13 PM   #36
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I have been to good AHRMA trails events and lack luster AHRMA trials events too. I won't mention the lack luster events in particular, but it was dis-heartening to travel to an event not to be challenged and pretty much see the truck from every section.

Although I have not been to one in about two years, in the past the best ones have been the first couple of years at Barber Motorsports Park and anything that Bob Ginder laid out. He used to layout Mid-Ohio before the AHRMA/AMA split and he had a two day event at his property in Tennessee. When you finished at day at Ginder's ranch, your body felt like you had just run a GNCC, good stuff!

Bob has put a lot of effort into his International Twin Shock events, and the couple that I have been able to attend were very good and worth the travel. Sorry, it doesn't help you guys on the west coast with the long travel distance, but maybe a club out west can start something like the Twin Shock series.
http://twinshock.org/
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:45 PM   #37
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[QUOTE=lamotovita;17107759]Well on a local level the events are lame, sloppily run and poorly laid out. The last event I rode (sept. 2011) featured 3 loops of 7 sections for a total of 21 rides. The distance between the first and last sections was about 300 yards, despite the fact they had hundreds of acres at their disposal. The largest obstacle(in the expert line) was a railroad tie laying on the ground. Sections were laid out in the parking area where vehicles were driving, and parking, in the staging areas for the sections.

On a national level it's clear that AHRMA doesn't care about Trials or want to develope it further. They don't publish Trials results on their website, they refuse to make a class for 80s vintage twinshocks, Also they seem to be very lax, or selective, in enforcing their own rules. Walk through the pits and see how many bikes (both Trials and MX) you can spot that obviously exceed the 4" rear travel rule. A guy who builds his bike according to the rules is handicapping himself.

Are you sorry you asked now?

Sorry I asked? No not at all. I would suggest the Steel Stampede at Crooked River Ranch, Hannegan Speedway and of course the Chehalis National and the Chehalis Premier and Classic Weekend. I guarantee those events will put points on your score card. It upsets me that the results arent published also but I dont think its on purpose. I know the proponents and they work really hard and are super people. What bike do you ride that you are upset about the 80s vintage twin-shocks? Also new trials masters like Dana Salsman, Terry Hyde and Pete Fisher have worked hard in the last few years to design challenging sections that wont hurt riders or their rare machines. The rules about 80s twin shocks will change and change soon. I am calling you out as to the 4 rule. I have been through tech inspection many times and they always check the wheel travel in the MX. I have been called out on my Moose clutch helper thing over and over on my Classic class Bultaco trials bike. Its perfectly legal as the device is not hydraulic. I would say that if you cheat it will be noticed and if you are going for a championship you will loose the championship over a non legal motorcycle because someone will notice. So how is building a legal bike a handicap?

Dave
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Old 10-19-2011, 11:19 PM   #38
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I don't want to rain on anyone's parade or discourage anybody (read my signature line). Any event will be as good, or as lame, as the people putting it on make it.
I have no personal interest in 80s vintage bikes, I just see no reason to exclude them other than to discourage more Trials riders from competing.
I've ridden three AHRMA events (all at the same location) and never been through a tech inspection.
As to the 4" suspension thing, I saw what I saw, more than once.
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Old 10-20-2011, 10:59 AM   #39
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We had about a dozen folks attend a vintage trials about 3 weeks ago. The guy who set the sections made them a bit too hard. I won somehow with 50 points. We also had a beer a loop, but that is a different story that Brewtus could explain better. I have ridden 2 AHRMA events, I don't recall a tech inspection?

My suggestion is to host a vintage event, make it awesome and get people to show up, also have a modern class so those that don't own a vintage bike can also ride. Why not?
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Old 10-20-2011, 11:49 AM   #40
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My suggestion is to host a vintage event, make it awesome and get people to show up, also have a modern class so those that don't own a vintage bike can also ride. Why not?
This is exactly what MAVT (http://www.mid-atlantictrials.com/Menu.html) does. Turnout is about 75% vintage I'd guess, and everyone gets along just fine.
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Old 10-20-2011, 12:49 PM   #41
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My suggestion is to host a vintage event, make it awesome and get people to show up, also have a modern class so those that don't own a vintage bike can also ride. Why not?
No reason why not. We've had some success doing that in our local eastern Ontario series the last couple years.
50+ years of bike development here between my friend's Montesa 4RT and my Ariel HT5 in the same section...albeit different lines!
Yes, I'm riding the (classic bike safe) rookie line!

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Old 10-20-2011, 06:54 PM   #42
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Ahrma

"I have no personal interest in 80s vintage bikes, I just see no reason to exclude them other than to discourage more Trials riders from competing."
Amen to that! We have tried to change their minds with a barrage of emails but the vote was still 5 to 5 the tie going to keep 80 thru 85 bikes out. AHRMA doesn't care about trials and those in charge don't want new riders. They want to make their current members happy. You can't blame those who work so hard to lay out the sections though because they are under pressure to keep the sections easy so the occasional motocross rider (current member) doesn't find it too difficult.
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Old 10-20-2011, 07:56 PM   #43
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We also had a beer a loop, but that is a different story that Brewtus could explain better. I have ridden 2 AHRMA events, I don't recall a tech inspection?


Uh, first loop 1 beer. Second loop, two beers. Third and final loop, beers and bench racing for hours with killer stories of Trials past from VERY long-time NMTA members that were very entertaining, along with cool National stories dating back to the early '80's. I love Trials folks!



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Originally Posted by vintagetour View Post
AHRMA doesn't care about trials and those in charge don't want new riders. They want to make their current members happy. You can't blame those who work so hard to lay out the sections though because they are under pressure to keep the sections easy so the occasional motocross rider (current member) doesn't find it too difficult.

Now to me anyway, that is a crying damn shame. Why on earth would you want to exclude a great group of people just to please an existing competition base? Trials, like Motocross, is not about "easy", it's about the challenge of competition. Rise to the challenge, or move to a different class. If you don't enjoy it, do something different. It's that simple.

In NMTA, we have several members that "crossover" from different forms of Moto competition. Motocrossers and Flattrackers have not recently done well in our club, while Desert Racers and Road Racers seem to have taken to it better, and have competed longer moving up to higher classes. I'm not in any way dumping on the Flattrackers or Motocrossers, they simply don't seem as interested. Have we made classes easier to accommodate them? Absolutely not. Ride better or move down, as Prez. D. once said. If it's not your cuppa, that's fine too.

I've only ridden one Vintage "National", and it was not an AHRMA event. The sections there were also amazingly easy. Hell, I rode it on the Team TY80, and it still was not challenging. Thing I always wondered about is that there were only two other guys in my class (that were Vintage Motocross guys that were competing for a Trials title in that organization), and I came in....fourth????? I'm no math whiz, but something was amiss there. When I asked about that creative outcome (every time I saw those guys in sections they were on the ground or stalled), I was just told, "that's how the scores came out". Yeeeeeah, First, Second, *nobody*, Fourth???? Ho-kay. I was loaded for bear this year with fresh duct-tape on the seat of my POS Reflex "Outright Junk" to take on all comers at this year's event when it got cancelled. Just as well. I probably would have come in 7th in a field of one.


Another Vintage event? Hell, I'm ready. And ALL of you are invited to come down and ride with us!!!
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Old 10-20-2011, 09:56 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by lamotovita View Post
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade or discourage anybody (read my signature line). Any event will be as good, or as lame, as the people putting it on make it.
I have no personal interest in 80s vintage bikes, I just see no reason to exclude them other than to discourage more Trials riders from competing.
I've ridden three AHRMA events (all at the same location) and never been through a tech inspection.
As to the 4" suspension thing, I saw what I saw, more than once.
I would think that with as much experience that you have riding vintage trials that you would make a great trials master. I would show up and ride your sections, what do you say? Come on step up and put on a trials!

Dave Armstrong
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Old 10-20-2011, 10:13 PM   #45
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I would think that with as much experience that you have riding vintage trials that you would make a great trials master. I would show up and ride your sections, what do you say? Come on step up and put on a trials!
Dave Armstrong
I marshalled two Trials this year (modern trials with a novice/vintage class). My next one probably won't be until June. I'll keep you apprised and plan on seeing you there.
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